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-   -   Should it have been Briere, and why not? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1015899)

thephillyflu 10-27-2011 11:12 PM

Should it have been Briere, and why not?
 
There was only ever talking about moving Carter and Richards this summer. Not Briere. Not even mentioned. But Briere was much higher paid and much worse in defense than both those guys without producing neither more points nor a better offense in large in regular season play. Also Briere only has a few good years left, while both Carter and Richards could (without injuries) be franchise players for 10+ years to come. Also Briere was a mercenary, Carter and Richards were home-drafted players who'd only ever represented Flyers in the NHL.

So why wasn't Briere considered for a trade? I can't believe it was because of his no movement clause, because those things are always possible to work around.

Was it because we wanted to be able to trade with every team in the league, starting a bidding war and yielding the highest return? I mean, since Briere at his age and pay would only ever yield a proper return from a contender, I have a hard time seeing Columbus trading for Briere to finish 8th in the Western Conference instead of 12th for 2 years and then back to 12th again... But even the worst team in the NHL would want a player like Carter or Richards, since they were only 25-26 at the time and probably (no bad luck with injuries) will get even better. Although I could see LA giving up Schenn and Simmonds for Briere, I don't think so, so that's a question. I could easily though see Sharks giving up Heatley or comparable for Briere, but that wouldn't help with cap space. So maybe he wouldn't have yielded as high of a return since he's 8 years older, and that's the full answer and I could stop at that.

But having a line up of centers in Richards, Giroux, Carter and "Talbot/Read/other cheap but quality 4th center" for 10 years to come would've been something...

Or maybe, it was because Briere is a reknown "clutch" playoff performer, and Carter has hardly got a chance to prove anything in the playoffs with his injuries. Richards though has shown some really solid playoff ice hockey, though not on Briere level but close.

Or was it maybe as the rumours said, that Carter and Richards were unprofessional and didn't seem to accept that being a franchise star is a 24/7 job? That they partied too hard, didn't take being leading players seriously enough, and set a bad example for younger players? And if that's so, why the fück did they get the C and the A respectively? Seems pretty contradictory to me. So is that the reason or is it just media and fan speculation? I have a hard time accepting Richards as a bad influence, since few players in the flyers shirt has fought that hard and endured as much pain for the team. Carter was also known for playing through loads of pain.

I never thought of them as players with a bad attitude, but the media and fan speculation kept saying so, so I don't know what to believe.

Or was it about both Richards and Carter having "hard to ever heal completely"-injuries as in complicated fractures in complicated places as wrist and ankle, and we made a bet on their health (a bet against)?

So, how is it? Was it just a question about yielding the highest but for the time being, cheapest (in $), return? Or was it a question of wanting to win the cup in a few years time, before Briere's done. Or was it a question of Holmgren not being able to move Briere even if he wanted? Or was it because of Carter/Richards possible bad attitude? Or their injuries?

I'm not talking about trading last summer in general, I'm talking about why the choice was Richards AND Carter instead of just either one or neither one but Briere or one of them AND Briere. Why? I don't question the trades, in a few years if Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier develop as expected, becoming solid 2nd liners all four of them in 3-4 years time, it's great. Though there's always the risk that Carter will score 50 goals and 35 assists in three years time and Richards 35+50 with a Selke to boot and become the superstars one might've thought a couple of years ago. But even then we might still be winners in the long run. I'm just wondering about the choice, between the three top expensive centers, why it was those two? Is there a simple answer or is it a combination of all the possible reasons I suggested..? Help me out, please!

RevUpThoseGolfCarts 10-27-2011 11:15 PM

Briere wasn't pounding every day and night

FreshPerspective 10-27-2011 11:18 PM

Why don't you just change the title of the thread to " Why did we trade Carter and Richards?"

Suggest you use the search function to gain some insight into your inquiry.....

Damaged Goods 10-27-2011 11:18 PM

NTCs, age, return value, # of years remaining on contracts, playoff performances, Carter and Richards being best friends...

czechmate25 10-27-2011 11:20 PM

Maybe Briere wasn't the one who had any part in dividing the locker room?

Philadelphia Ducks 10-27-2011 11:40 PM

Briere is a class act who has his stuff together off the ice. He has mentored many of the young players and let Roo and now Couts move in with him. You really don't trade players like Briere who have so many intangibles off the ice.

Haute Couturier 10-27-2011 11:42 PM

It depends on the reason for the trades. If it was solely a cap deal then Briere should have been shipped out before either of them.

MsWoof 10-28-2011 12:15 AM

He won't go anywhere because he has 3 young kids and his ex-wife lives in the area. He can't expect her to follow him around anymore now that they're not married, so if ever there was a time for a player to dig in his heels and say I'm not going anywhere, this is it. They can try doing what they did to Gagne but it's different with this kind of family situation. Besides, who would Couturier live with? He might move in with another young guy and, you know, go out drinking from time to time.

Sawdalite 10-28-2011 12:51 AM

#1 Briere's full NMC and Richards and Carter's NTCs not yet in place... When their clauses kicked in they would be in control... the timing was ripe to move them.

#2 It may be a case where the Organization decided that they did NOT want Richards and Carter to be the core going forward for another decade... they'd rather have more flexibility in the Cap Era and go with Giroux, Read and (as it turned out) Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and a high selection as their Core forwards along with the players they kept for the next few years and re-sign them or move them later as they saw fit.

#3 They wanted a new Leadership Core Group that centered around Pronger and Kimmo and officially add Briere and work in Giroux and other young players... obtaining other strong character players such as Talbot... and eliminating their Captain, Richards and an Alternate, Carter who they may have felt were no leading in the proper manner.

#4 They may have wanted to shore up their standing with the Media and stop the obvious war with them and furnish better representation after games and during and after the season... Richards was not a friend to the local Media and Carter was not one who furnished well thought out and convey thoughts about games as a player like Knuble once did... Briere on the other hand was and remains a well sought after player by the Media who was well liked... They changed the sanding with the Media by elimination and bringing back Briere.

#5 The Organization wanted a 'Culture' change and moving Richards and Carter served that purpose... Moving Briere would no have accomplished that.

#6 Briere was and still is a great presence in the Room and with the young players... as mention by another he is a good mentor... Richards and Carter were not.

#7 Briere plays at near a PPG pace during the Regular Season and has been at better than a PPG player with the Flyers in the Postseason.

#8 Briere had only a few seasons left in his contract and Carter and Richards had many more remaining... In a few seasons he Flyers would have another $17M+ to work with rather than $6M+.

#9 Briere has been a good soldier in his time here and has moved around the lines and forward positions with neither complaint nor problem nor effect on output... Except for one major injury he has been in the lineup and played through injury... While Richards has also, he has had ups and downs... Carter was a strongman and then seems to now get hurt more often and also has more ups and downs and seems to be more effected with being moved around.

#10 Briere has proved to make players better when playing with them... IMO that has not been the case with Richards and Carter.

Prongo 10-28-2011 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawdalite (Post 38605919)
#1 Briere's full NMC and Richards and Carter's NTCs not yet in place... When their clauses kicked in they would be in control... the timing was ripe to move them.

#2 It may be a case where the Organization decided that they did NOT want Richards and Carter to be the core going forward for another decade... they'd rather have more flexibility in the Cap Era and go with Giroux, Read and (as it turned out) Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and a high selection as their Core forwards along with the players they kept for the next few years and re-sign them or move them later as they saw fit.

#3 They wanted a new Leadership Core Group that centered around Pronger and Kimmo and officially add Briere and work in Giroux and other young players... obtaining other strong character players such as Talbot... and eliminating their Captain, Richards and an Alternate, Carter who they may have felt were no leading in the proper manner.

#4 They may have wanted to shore up their standing with the Media and stop the obvious war with them and furnish better representation after games and during and after the season... Richards was not a friend to the local Media and Carter was not one who furnished well thought out and convey thoughts about games as a player like Knuble once did... Briere on the other hand was and remains a well sought after player by the Media who was well liked... They changed the sanding with the Media by elimination and bringing back Briere.

#5 The Organization wanted a 'Culture' change and moving Richards and Carter served that purpose... Moving Briere would no have accomplished that.

#6 Briere was and still is a great presence in the Room and with the young players... as mention by another he is a good mentor... Richards and Carter were not.

#7 Briere plays at near a PPG pace during the Regular Season and has been at better than a PPG player with the Flyers in the Postseason.

#8 Briere had only a few seasons left in his contract and Carter and Richards had many more remaining... In a few seasons he Flyers would have another $17M+ to work with rather than $6M+.

#9 Briere has been a good soldier in his time here and has moved around the lines and forward positions with neither complaint nor problem nor effect on output... Except for one major injury he has been in the lineup and played through injury... While Richards has also, he has had ups and downs... Carter was a strongman and then seems to now get hurt more often and also has more ups and downs and seems to be more effected with being moved around.

#10 Briere has proved to make players better when playing with them... IMO that has not been the case with Richards and Carter.

I believe this pretty much sums it up

FreshPerspective 10-28-2011 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 (Post 38606457)
I believe this pretty much sums it up

Too much of an eyesore explanation

This is what it comes down to....


Holmgren is stupid.....:sarcasm:

Arigold* 10-28-2011 01:15 AM

Briere plays hockey minus the drama. Also hes a mentor to Giroux in the offseason. Something has to go really bad for that to happen.

SolidSnakeUS 10-28-2011 01:16 AM

Losing Briere I think would be worse. Considering if we can get to the playoffs, Briere will definitely be key to the team winning.

Sawdalite 10-28-2011 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coutsiephan (Post 38606595)
Too much of an eyesore explanation

This is what it comes down to....


Holmgren is stupid.....:sarcasm:


"eyesore explanation"? :amazed:

I hope you are speaking of my sticky keyboard keys, Kind Sir................ :laugh:

Kimota 10-28-2011 01:57 AM

I think Briere could have been considered but I think what I would have done is move only Carter, not both Carter and Richards. That way you keep a great player in Richards but since Carter is his friend, it sends him a message, it's over with the country club and if you don't shape up, you're next. And just remove the C on his jersey.

Sawdalite 10-28-2011 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimota (Post 38607849)
I think Briere could have been considered but I think what I would have done is move only Carter, not both Carter and Richards. That way you keep a great player in Richards but since Carter is his friend, it sends him a message, it's over with the country club and if you don't shape up, you're next. And just remove the C on his jersey.

Moving him at a later point might not have been possible if his NTC would kick in... And removing his 'C' could lose him forever, which would be disastrous if he was lost and unhappy and had a NTC... He would then have the Flyers over a barrel IMO.

dats81 10-28-2011 03:14 AM

We could as well resume discussing why we should have kept Brind'Amour instead of acquiring Primeau, or that Foppa could have been better than Lindros...

:help::help::help:

FlyersFan61290 10-28-2011 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawdalite (Post 38608039)
Moving him at a later point might not have been possible if his NTC would kick in... And removing his 'C' could lose him forever, which would be disastrous if he was lost and unhappy and had a NTC... He would then have the Flyers over a barrel IMO.

His NTC doesn't kick in for another yr if I'm not mistaken. I wish we didn't trade Richie but if Schenn turns out it's all good.

Anyway I said this on another thread but I'll say it again. I don't like Briere, I like what's he's done for the team in the playoffs and w/ G and now Couturier but I'm still hopefully that he is moved sooner rather then later.

DrinkFightFlyers 10-28-2011 07:59 AM

They should have signed Vokoun for $100.

TOCxNJ 10-28-2011 08:13 AM

Briere, in my opinion, is almost always one of the best players on the ice. Obviously his defensive play is questionable but so are many other offensively gifted players.

Personally I'm extremely happy it was Carter/Richards and not Briere. Not that I wanted them to go necessarily.

JVR21 10-28-2011 08:15 AM

Because Couts would have no place to live :(

RJ8812 10-28-2011 09:19 AM

Because Briere scored more points in the SCF 2 years ago than Carter has scored in his entire playoff career

BringBackStevens 10-28-2011 09:32 AM

Because Briere is massively overrated by pretty much everyone in philadelphia, whether it be the fans or the management.

You remember the huge goals and the pretty plays but forget the chronic defensive issues with much more ease.

His defensive woes are so bad that even when he tries to play defense and gets in the right position, he's so ineffective that he might as well just be cherry picking. He would be more useful that way with how awful he is at doing anything remotely useful in his own end

Crescent Street 10-28-2011 09:57 AM

I'm just going to go ahead and assume the OP doesn't watch the playoffs year after year. Trade Briere? Yeah, ok. Stupidest thing I've read in a week.

metalan2 10-28-2011 10:01 AM

I've said it since the trades happened...

The Carter trade was great, the Richards trade was beyond retarded. I still can't even believe it. The Flyers could have their same team they have now, but with Richards added to the lineup. That is legitimate contender right there. Just makes ZERO sense to trade Richards for that return, ZERO.


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