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-   -   Rafael Diaz and Yannick Weber (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1017853)

Jack Bourdain 10-30-2011 11:57 AM

Rafael Diaz and Yannick Weber
 
Well 10 games into the season, what are your opinions regarding these two players? I'm terrible at putting a players performance in words, but I think they both excelled in the roles they were given (which wasn't expected of them, as they were supposed to be fighting for the 6-7th spot).

Going forward, with Markov returning and potentially having to decide to keep one or the other in the future, what decision would you make?

(And I'm guessing Emelin will be the one left out/traded/back to Russia?)

MasterD 10-30-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain (Post 38715641)
Well 10 games into the season, what are your opinions regarding these two players? I'm terrible at putting a players performance in words, but I think they both excelled in the roles they were given (which wasn't expected of them, as they were supposed to be fighting for the 6-7th spot).

Going forward, with Markov returning and potentially having to decide to keep one or the other in the future, what decision would you make?

(And I'm guessing Emelin will be the one left out/traded/back to Russia?)

You're probably right about Emelin, but that would be 100% JM's decision... and I would hate him for it. Hopefully we're wrong.

TomPlex 10-30-2011 12:05 PM

Weber has definitely improved his game and developed into an NHL caliber defenseman. He's doing the little things right that he wasn't doing well last year. He seems more comfortable getting the puck out of our zone and he rarely gets caught with it.

Diaz still has a lot to learn about the defensive part of the game, but he's "there" with his offensive game. Great stretch/breakout passes and good work so far on the PP where he shows great patience.

IMO, Emelin is more ready DEFENSIVELY than Diaz and he brings much needed toughness to the team, so it's definitely too early to rule him out. We've waited far too long for this guy to get here, we're not letting him go that easily. Diaz will have a couple of bad games during a losing streak and he'll get the axe in favor of Emelin. That or Gill will sit. Either way, he'll play and succeed.

My 2 cents.

AntonCH 10-30-2011 12:05 PM

IMHO
Both these guys are one and the same, essentially clones.
They've both filled in admirably, but moving forward one has to stay and one has to go. Not only will Markov return but at some point one assumes that Campoli will return. Identical pieces are a luxury.
Weber has to clear waivers to go down, not sure about Diaz.
As for Emelin, I'd keep him around as he provides something neither of the others do

TheNextOneX 10-30-2011 12:06 PM

Best defensive duo in this team.

Spacek or PK Subban are the one who should go back to the AHL IMO.

ares89 10-30-2011 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextOneX (Post 38715925)
Best defensive duo in this team.

Spacek or PK Subban are the one who should go back to the AHL IMO.

No not really, just because they are swiss:shakehead
If Markov comes back and proves that he is able to play without getting hurt in the first 2 or 3 games, one of them will be traded away

jonas2244 10-30-2011 12:33 PM

Diaz could be sent down to Hamilton, and he'd also go there (not sure if Emelin would do this) and he could also learn the missing parts of his game there. But he also showed his potential, he's an nhl-caliber defender (or is near to be one) and it wouldn't be a bad idea to talk about a new contract as early as possible.

If Weber continues to play like this he surley gets interest from other teams and when Markov/Campoli are back they could think about trading him, on the other hand, it'd make more sense to trade Campoli, if you look at the contract.

Kirk Muller 10-30-2011 12:54 PM

I think it be great to have Markov around with Emelin which is one reason i'd keep hm around. There is already a language barrier and Markov would be a perfect mentor for Emelin.

Now i think Diaz has shown good promise. He isnt there defensively but his offensive instincts definitely are. He is also a righty which makes the decision even more difficult.

torero 10-30-2011 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextOneX (Post 38715925)
Best defensive duo in this team.

Spacek or PK Subban are the one who should go back to the AHL IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ares89 (Post 38716309)
No not really, just because they are swiss:shakehead
If Markov comes back and proves that he is able to play without getting hurt in the first 2 or 3 games, one of them will be traded away

:laugh:
I love my landsmen !

While he is on the exaggeration side, their lies some truth in the sense that Diaz and Weber delivered more than was expected out of them so far.
The same cannot be said about Spacek and Subban.

And about their respective potential, Weber and Diaz have more potential for improvement than Spacek or Subban.

I am not saying that Weber and Diaz are better than Subban or Spaceck, nor am I saying that both (Diaz & Weber) have more absolute upside potential yet both have more relative upside than Subban or Spaceck.

In other words, the stock of Diaz and Weber is more interesting to hold than the stock of Spaceck or Subban.

:sarcasm:

jonas2244 10-30-2011 01:13 PM

I agree with Spacek, no way that Diaz/Weber are better (or ever will be better) than Subban.

neofury* 10-30-2011 01:19 PM

At this point I'd say Weber is untouchable barring a major trade. (He would now be considered a good piece rather than a throw in, the more he plays the more true that becomes imo)

Diaz could be dealt but I doubt they do trade him. They aren't redundant imo. Both are technically home grown talent :P I would let Campoli walk at the end of the year and just keep Diaz. He will be cheaper for the first few years and beneficial to our team.

When Markov is healthy I'd start switching between Gill/Emelin and if Emelin plays well with Markov... I'd probably trade Spacek for a late pick, keep Gill for the playoff push and then not re-sign him.

Subban, Weber, Diaz and even Emelin are all young NHL ready D who bring something to the table. I don't believe having two guys (Weber/Diaz) who improve the offense of the team this much are redundant. We've been out-shooting the other team and they're huge parts of why. Diaz has also shown some clutch defensive moves here or there. Let Diaz develop a little more (and Weber) before you call them redundant. Because of these two guys we're easily gaining the zone and our forwards keep getting crisp passes. Let them develop some more. I'd rather have them then an overpaid Gill/Spacek.

Going forward we could have a cheap yet very effective D squad. Why ruin it by trading one of them? If we could get some RFA of Couture quality or even Couturier maybe I'd consider it, but at this point neither will yield us the value imo they will be worth in their prime. Keep both.

neofury* 10-30-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torero (Post 38718229)
:laugh:
I love my landsmen !

While he is on the exaggeration side, their lies some truth in the sense that Diaz and Weber delivered more than was expected out of them so far.
The same cannot be said about Spacek and Subban.

And about their respective potential, Weber and Diaz have more potential for improvement than Spacek or Subban.

I am not saying that Weber and Diaz are better than Subban or Spaceck, nor am I saying that both (Diaz & Weber) have more absolute upside potential yet both have more relative upside than Subban or Spaceck.

In other words, the stock of Diaz and Weber is more interesting to hold than the stock of Spaceck or Subban.

:sarcasm:

I see it like this:

Subban A
Diaz/Weber B+
Emelin B
Spacek F

In terms of potential. Subban isn't showing us what we all know he's capable of, and he's equally young as Diaz/Weber and will also become a better player imo. Remember he too is young he just broke into the NHL after 1 AHL season.

I do agree though that Diaz AND Weber can both be quality assets for the habs. I think Emelin can be that D who fits with Markov too, given his style and that he's Russian it makes sense.

Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Diaz-Weber
Gill-Campoli
Spacek (dealt for future considerations at deadline)

:)

LeMAD 10-30-2011 01:30 PM

Weber is playing like a #5 dman, while Diaz is struggling a lot in the defensive zone, and will probably be a healthy scratch sooner than later.

Gorges and Spacek are our two best dmen so far, while Gill is having an atrocious start of season.

rating so far:

Gorges: B
Spacek: B
Subban: B-
Weber: C
Diaz: D
Gill: E
Emelin: D+

Q: if Diaz gets sent down does he has to go through waivers?

Harry Kakalovich 10-30-2011 01:32 PM

I don't agree the Habs will give up on Emelin - he brings an important combo of snarl and skill that the Habs blue line needs. But he needs some time and seasoning to adjust to the NHL.

While I do agree on first glance that Weber and Diaz seem redundant - I'd like to give both more time before I categorically believe that. Diaz is playing his first season in NA, and Weber is just beginning to fill out his game at the NHL level.

I say "wait and see and keep all three." (this should be a slogan!)

coolasprICE 10-30-2011 01:40 PM

send down Diaz ?

That`s the way you award a 25 yr old player for his great play?

don`t quit your day job folks

MXD 10-30-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 38719537)
send down Diaz ?

That`s the way you award a 25 yr old player for his great play?

don`t quit your day job folks

Well, he's probably the only one who can be sent down, so, yeah, that's probably what will happen, unless management completely screw it up with Emelin OR manages to trade Chris Campoli.

He wouldn't deserve it, but it's not like Emelin deserves to be scratched... And, well, he's scratched.

Andy 10-30-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 38719537)
send down Diaz ?

That`s the way you award a 25 yr old player for his great play?

don`t quit your day job folks

As a fan of Boston you sure do know a lot about the Canadiens.

Redux91 10-30-2011 01:47 PM

yeah sorry but i have to agree that Diaz has really blown me away

i dont know what will happen when campoli and markov come back, but it is obvious they will get the roster spots

so that kicks out emelin for sure, and one of weber and diaz go to the pressbox, while gill and spacek get important icetime

i would THINK, diaz deserves the spot, but it will probably go to weber (even tho diaz Is older, weber has more NHL experience and has been "paying his dues playing forward n stuff"), and every now and then i assume they rotate to rest spacek or gill, i just dont know its a tough situation

but am i ever pissed emelin wasnt given a better shot :/

coolasprICE 10-30-2011 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXD (Post 38719727)
Well, he's probably the only one who can be sent down, so, yeah, that's probably what will happen, unless management completely screw it up with Emelin OR manages to trade Chris Campoli.

He wouldn't deserve it, but it's not like Emelin deserves to be scratched... And, well, he's scratched.

Rotate Gill and Spacek on injury reserve .. they`ll benefit from rest

MXD 10-30-2011 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 38720803)
Rotate Gill and Spacek on injury reserve .. they`ll benefit from rest

Eehh..... I think there's a prerequisite to be injured to be put on injured reserve, and even then, when Campoli and Markov come back, we'll have nine D's... Needless to say that Campoli and Markov's roles are way different than Spacek or Gill (or even Emelin for that matter).

MasterDecoy 10-30-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux91 (Post 38719783)
but am i ever pissed emelin wasnt given a better shot :/

if only he'd accept going to hamilton for a little while... sucks for him but he's last on the depth chart right now

The Kremelin Wall* 10-30-2011 02:33 PM

I am a fan of both but they bring the same thing to the line up and Emelin is better than both quite frankly. I'm almost certain at this point communication is Emelin's biggest issue and he'll get much more playing time when Markov returns to the lineup.

giovannicanella 10-30-2011 03:03 PM

Quote:

if only he'd accept going to hamilton for a little while... sucks for him but he's last on the depth chart right now
I do not remember the source but it was circulated here that Emelin was indeed willing to work in Hamilton for a little while...and we were all surprised...Now all of a sudden this situation changed? Boone, from hockeyinsideout...hinted or joked that his Russian Spies informed him that Emelin was unhappy...

Emelin fans do not despair, I count myself as one of you, Markov is still 2 to 4 weeks away from return...Campoli...xmas...?

Gill and Spacek are bound to pick up a few knocks...

Or anyone else in the D core maybe healthy scratched if found wanting in terms of form...Rotations occur, even with the big bad wolf JM at the helm.

FiveForDrawingBlood 10-30-2011 03:16 PM

I like Diaz, I think as he acclimates to the NA game will be a good one. How long do we have his rights for?

WhiskeySeven 10-30-2011 03:17 PM

Diaz has to be grittier/better imo. He's been fine so far but players seem to run into him and Price much more than when other d-men are on the ice.


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