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-   -   WGR Ruff comments on Leino's situation and compares it to Briere when he arrived. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1020163)

joshjull 11-02-2011 01:48 PM

Ruff comments on Leino's situation and compares it to Briere when he arrived.
 
http://wgr550.com/Sabres-Weber-gets-his-chance/11362529


Quote:

As far as Leinoís play this season Ruff said, ďItís finding a fit. Iíve liked his compete level. He just needs something good to happen to feel good about how heís playing and there hasnít been a lot good going on. I think this is a great opportunity for him to get something going and Iím excited to see what these lines will look like and if we can maybe spur a little more offense and spread a little bit of it around.Ē Ruff added about his new forward, ďWeíre trying to be patient, let him try to make some plays and it doesnít mean heís going to fit right where Iíve got him, right now, but I know heíll fit. Itís no different from when Danny Briere got here and Danny didnít want to play center, he felt wing would be his best spot and I thought it would be center and eventually he ended up and center and that would be his position so Iíve got lots of experience to rely on.Ē

slip 11-02-2011 01:51 PM

The next Briere.

That should take some of the pressure off Leino. :laugh:

I hope he finds his game tonight between Vanek and Pominville.

joshjull 11-02-2011 01:56 PM

Its interesting to know Briere wanted to play wing. I'm guessing to get away from the defensive responsibilities at center. Which Hecht ended up doing in large part for their line. Maybe Pommer can do the same for Leino.

Ruckus007 11-02-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 38851483)
Its interesting to know Briere wanted to play wing. I'm guessing to get away from the defensive responsibilities at center. Which Hecht ended up doing in large part for their line. Maybe Pommer can do the same for Leino.

Hmm, does anybody remember if Briere played wing when he first got to Buffalo? My memory was that he centered Hecht and Dumont from the get go.

EDIT. I just looked up the box for a game against Carolina I went to at the end of that year. Briere a goal and an assist. Assists for Dumont and Hecht. Noronen stopped 38 of 39 for the win (:banghead: )

Sabretip 11-02-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 38851483)
Its interesting to know Briere wanted to play wing. I'm guessing to get away from the defensive responsibilities at center.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 38851857)
Hmm, does anybody remember if Briere played wing when he first got to Buffalo?

Having watched Briere firsthand play in Phoenix before the trade, I can attest to the Coyotes using him on the wing more than center because they had concerns over whether Briere was too small to play center (which they later confirmed when they got Gratton back in return).

Quote:

Originally Posted by slip (Post 38851297)
The next Briere.

I know Ruff is using the Briere-Leino comparison to defend the positional switch he's apparently forcing onto Leino but, after seeing this in the context of past Leino comments that sound more critical of his circumstances than his own doing, I wonder if another comparison may not be soon apparent:

Quote:

There wasn't much new ground broken that Leino hasn't already opened up about with Buffalo reporters, except near the end of the interview when Leino was asked if Ruff is tougher to play for than Flyers boss Peter Laviolette.

Said a laughing Leino: "Obviously I'm not going to say yeah because he's going to read this. It's been a little different, it's different between coaches and systems and players. Everybody is getting used to everybody. I'm just trying to work every day to get better. I'm sure he doesn't know me as a player as well as he wants to either so we'll work here every day."
Maybe it's exaggerating a bit but I'm getting a sense of a Miro Satan-like attitude of entitlement and displeasure with Ruff. We all remember how often those two butted heads about player style vs. team system.

joshjull 11-02-2011 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 38854485)
Having watched Briere firsthand play in Phoenix before the trade, I can attest to the Coyotes using him on the wing more than center because they had concerns over whether Briere was too small to play center (which they later confirmed when they got Gratton back in return).



I know Ruff is using the Briere-Leino comparison to defend the positional switch he's apparently forcing onto Leino but, after seeing this in the context of past Leino comments that sound more critical of his circumstances than his own doing, I wonder if another comparison may not be soon apparent:



Maybe it's exaggerating a bit but I'm getting a sense of a Miro Satan-like attitude of entitlement and displeasure with Ruff. We all remember how often those two butted heads about player style vs. team system.


Wow that is quite a reach.

Zip15 11-02-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slip (Post 38851297)
The next Briere.

That should take some of the pressure off Leino. :laugh:

I hope he finds his game tonight between Vanek and Pominville.

That's not at all what he's saying. Unfortunately, people will see Leino's and Briere's names in the same sentence and take it that way.

Sabretip 11-02-2011 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 38854611)
Wow that is quite a reach.

Admittedly, it's premature and I qualified it as an exaggeration after only 10 games but based on the media reports and interviews with Leino and Ruff, we know that 1) Leino wasn't happy or comfortable being a center; 2) Leino expected to be on the power play; and 3) his non-response to the Ruff-Laviolette comparison can obviously be taken as an affirmative to Ruff being a tough coach to please.

When Ruff first took over the reigns, we heard about similar issues from Satan.

drinking bleach irl 11-02-2011 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 38854899)
Admittedly, it's premature and I qualified it as an exaggeration after only 10 games but based on the media reports and interviews with Leino and Ruff, we know that 1) Leino wasn't happy or comfortable being a center; 2) Leino expected to be on the power play; and 3) his non-response to the Ruff-Laviolette comparison can obviously be taken as an affirmative to Ruff being a tough coach to please.

When Ruff first took over the reigns, we heard about similar issues from Satan.

This read to me more as a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario. If Leino says Lavy's tougher, he might think it would make Ruff look like he's babying them. If he says Ruff's tougher, it could come off as spiteful, lazy, etc.

aceface33 11-02-2011 03:34 PM

Came off to me as a joke followed by a "they are different coaches and it's hard to compare" non-answer.

Gnuguy 11-02-2011 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 38851857)
Hmm, does anybody remember if Briere played wing when he first got to Buffalo? My memory was that he centered Hecht and Dumont from the get go.

EDIT. I just looked up the box for a game against Carolina I went to at the end of that year. Briere a goal and an assist. Assists for Dumont and Hecht. Noronen stopped 38 of 39 for the win (:banghead: )

Maybe we can get him to back up Enroth? :sarcasm:

In all seriousness if Lenio is the new Briere who was the new Chris Gratton?

Chainshot 11-02-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 38851857)
Hmm, does anybody remember if Briere played wing when he first got to Buffalo? My memory was that he centered Hecht and Dumont from the get go.

EDIT. I just looked up the box for a game against Carolina I went to at the end of that year. Briere a goal and an assist. Assists for Dumont and Hecht. Noronen stopped 38 of 39 for the win (:banghead: )

I recall him being at center from the get go and some post-lockout conversation I recall about Danny not wanting to move to wing when they had him, Drury, Roy, Connolly, Gaustad, and Mair available in the middle. *shrug* It doesn't fit with what I recall of the situation, but then again, that doesn't mean Danny didn't want to continue as a winger when he arrived.

puckish66 11-02-2011 03:45 PM

The following might not bode well for long-term peace between Ruff and Leino.

Quote:

"I can't play in the simple way that others can," Leino said in April. "If I fail, I'll fail as myself and the player I've developed and the player I've always been - not the player that tried to please somebody.

"Before, I tried to do things that made coaches happy. That's the Finn in me. Because I don't want to [tick] anyone off or give a bad impression. But that's not what I am - I decided I wasn't going to change for anyone else."
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1cZxaIKSX

Chainshot 11-02-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceface33 (Post 38855433)
Came off to me as a joke followed by a "they are different coaches and it's hard to compare" non-answer.

Me too -- right up there with the "Yeah, I shot that wide" comment to Vogl the other day. :laugh:

Crazy Tasty 11-02-2011 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnuguy (Post 38855715)
Maybe we can get him to back up Enroth? :sarcasm:

In all seriousness if Lenio is the new Briere who was the new Chris Gratton?

Luke Adam

jBuds 11-02-2011 04:18 PM

Honestly? This guy has pissed me off since day 1. He blatantly took the highest offer, didn't do any research on our system, past history of guys making position conversions, how Ruff & Co. handle poor play, and the rest of the stuff required in terms of due diligence.

Every ****ing quote that has been spoken by The Ville-ain since his arrival has bothered me or tweaked me in the wrong sense. He has ZERO accountability. Don't give me "language barrier" either.


HAVING SAID THAT - the quote that puckish took from the Philly article was spoken by Leino in April, before he signed here. He goes on to say the following, which might be the first hint of accountability to date:

Quote:

"I really liked it in Philly," Leino said, his voice trailing off. "We tried to make it work. Now, I'm going to keep working hard to turn this thing around."

SublimeNightmare 11-02-2011 04:22 PM

Leino!!!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

jBuds 11-02-2011 04:24 PM

The Briere situation is completely different than Leino's, too. In Briere, you (apparently) had a guy who DID NOT WANT TO play center, but was forced there by the coach.

In Leino, you have a guy who was obviously willing to play center, convert from wing, and work on making that adjustment. There is/was no refusal from Leino like there apparently was from Briere. Bad parallel.

snoop244 11-02-2011 04:32 PM

To me Leino looks exactly like the stuck-on-the-perimeter, super-slow, Kovalev in his latter years... but without the decent shot...oh ya, and without ever having been one of the most dangerous players in hockey.

I'm not sure what we were thinking bringing him over, but he doesn't look any better or worse than he did in Philly... at least not to me. The only thing out of kilter here is our expectations.

I seriously don't get the comparison to Briere. Briere was a question mark because of his size; Leino lacks the raw talent and doesn't even show a spark of higher potential imho. He would do well to model himself after Vanek, but even then...

jBuds 11-02-2011 04:56 PM

Don't say you're willing to convert and then ***** about the conversion when it doesn't go well. ****.

Sabretip 11-02-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 38857417)
The Briere situation is completely different than Leino's, too. In Briere, you (apparently) had a guy who DID NOT WANT TO play center, but was forced there by the coach.

I don't think that's as cut-and-dry as Ruff's quote suggests -for starters, Briere was drafted by Phoenix as a center in 1996 after playing that position with Drummondville.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft

I remember the Coyotes trying him at center but soon decided he was too small to match up against the Western Conference centers and wanted to make better use of his speed and agility on the wing. Briere had his 32-goal season in 2001-02 playing the wing - so he obviously managed some success there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 38857417)
In Leino, you have a guy who was obviously willing to play center, convert from wing, and work on making that adjustment. There is/was no refusal from Leino like there apparently was from Briere. Bad parallel.

He was willing to work at being a center for all of 5 games before he asked his coach to put him back at wing.

In many ways, Leino's request to go to a former position where he had experienced success in the NHL is similar if Briere resisted a return to center (according to Ruff) upon arriving to Buffalo because he had his best season beforehand playing wing.

jBuds 11-02-2011 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 38858945)
I don't think that's as cut-and-dry as Ruff's quote suggests -for starters, Briere was drafted by Phoenix as a center in 1996 after playing that position with Drummondville.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft

I remember the Coyotes trying him at center but soon decided he was too small to match up against the Western Conference centers and wanted to make better use of his speed and agility on the wing. Briere had his 32-goal season in 2001-02 playing the wing - so he obviously managed some success there.



He was willing to work at being a center for all of 5 games before he asked his coach to put him back at wing.

In many ways, Leino's request to go to a former position where he had experienced success in the NHL is similar if Briere resisted a return to center (according to Ruff) upon arriving to Buffalo because he had his best season beforehand playing wing.

Start from the beginning. Both are supposedly "natural centers".

Briere felt he could have more success on the wing (and did), so according to Ruff, was hesitant to return to center when traded here. Briere, by all accounts, was a center by design and neither Bob Francis (at the time) nor Ruff wanted DB to play wing - so he didn't really do so except for portions of that 30g season IIRC.

In Leino, you have a guy who claims to have been a natural center, grew up down the middle, played there professionally, and was converted to wing when he came over here. Now, he was open to the idea of converting to center, but since it hasn't worked, he wants to be a winger again? The situations aren't that similar, and I don't like the parallel, personally.

gallagt01 11-02-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 38859331)
Start from the beginning. Both are supposedly "natural centers".

Briere felt he could have more success on the wing (and did), so according to Ruff, was hesitant to return to center when traded here. Briere, by all accounts, was a center by design and neither Bob Francis (at the time) nor Ruff wanted DB to play wing - so he didn't really do so except for portions of that 30g season IIRC.

In Leino, you have a guy who claims to have been a natural center, grew up down the middle, played there professionally, and was converted to wing when he came over here. Now, he was open to the idea of converting to center, but since it hasn't worked, he wants to be a winger again? The situations aren't that similar, and I don't like the parallel, personally.

Nobody asked Ruff about the Briere situation. He brought it up himself. In my opinion, that indicates that Ruff finds the situations to be extremely similar. Nobody asked "Hey, is this like when Briere got here?"

Ruff drew the comparison. He knows what's going on more than any reports that we've heard. The situations are similar.

jBuds 11-02-2011 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loods (Post 38861283)
Nobody asked Ruff about the Briere situation. He brought it up himself. In my opinion, that indicates that Ruff finds the situations to be extremely similar. Nobody asked "Hey, is this like when Briere got here?"

Ruff drew the comparison. He knows what's going on more than any reports that we've heard. The situations are similar.

I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting that the actual parallel itself is not fair. The only thing comparable, and the thing I think Ruff was trying to get at, was an initial adjustment period playing a new position with a new team.

He likened that to the last concrete time something like that has happened, which in his mind was DB.

Vito_81 11-02-2011 06:12 PM

I don't see the issue with Leino. He's a guy that wants to help the team by living up to his deal. He knows he has had more Nhl success at wing so why wouldn't he rather play there.

As for the lack of skill comments. I disagree. He's a guy in a slump but he's definitely got the skills to be the 20-30-50 guy we signed him to be.


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