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-   -   The All-Purpose Toughness Thread (Part 2) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1020875)

hototogisu 11-03-2011 09:23 AM

The All-Purpose Toughness Thread (Part 2)
 
Part one: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=996179

Continue here.

habs03 11-03-2011 10:28 AM

Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.

gusfring 11-03-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habs03 (Post 38891483)
Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.

Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom line - not your record against one team.

The Kremelin Wall* 11-03-2011 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habs03 (Post 38891483)
Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.

0-1 in the playoffs though.

SouthernHab 11-03-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nittany (Post 38891505)
Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom - not your record against one team.

Big picture anyone?

Great post.:nod:

Kriss E 11-03-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 38894365)
Big picture anyone?

Great post.:nod:

That's actually the small picture, not the big one. ;)

Monctonscout 11-03-2011 12:52 PM

another "tough guy" on waivers Matt Kassian from Minnesota...

gusfring 11-03-2011 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 38896349)
another "tough guy" on waivers Matt Kassian from Minnesota...

If they passed on DJ King and countless others then this is pretty much a moot point. It won't happen with JM and PF here.

hototogisu 11-03-2011 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nittany (Post 38896959)
If they passed on DJ King and countless others then this is pretty much a moot point. It won't happen with JM and PF here.

I think you're either missing his point or willfully ignoring it.

Aurel Joliat 11-03-2011 01:10 PM

I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.

The Kremelin Wall* 11-03-2011 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat (Post 38897305)
I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.

Games won by the Habs-2
Games won by the Bruins-0
Habs injuries in the Bruins games-0

We're fine.

hogtownhabsfan* 11-03-2011 01:16 PM

I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness. Once White gets healthy and Tinordi and Schultz are up, and once Thornton and Chara have retired and/or moved on, I suspect the tables will have turned... poor Lucic will be crying for his momma!

Aurel Joliat 11-03-2011 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan (Post 38897615)
I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness

Maybe not ''enough'', but that was a key moment of the rivalry with the Bruins I think. Thornton always do what he wants, knowing that we have nobody to face him. But now that their best fighter was not able to beat one of our player, I think that will give a lot of cofidence to our team !

PunkinDrublic* 11-03-2011 01:33 PM

Once again D Clarkson please. That's all.

PunkinDrublic* 11-03-2011 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan (Post 38897615)
I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness. Once White gets healthy and Tinordi and Schultz are up, and once Thornton and Chara have retired and/or moved on, I suspect the tables will have turned... poor Lucic will be crying for his momma!

He didn't go toe to toe with Thornton, he held on for dear life at the end. Toe to toe, he would be on the LTIR right now.

hogtownhabsfan* 11-03-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHMB Prez (Post 38898607)
He didn't go toe to toe with Thornton, he held on for dear life at the end. Toe to toe, he would be on the LTIR right now.


go to 0:19, how's that not toe to toe?

Toe to toe means to square up and go, and that's what they did. Thornton went after Moen, Moen dropped them and the two went and Moen held his own.

We hardly needed a big stiff like John Scott on the ice...

habs03 11-03-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat (Post 38897305)
I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.

I disagree with this point, I don't see how any of the players were intimidated, even after the 8-6 game vs the Bruins with all the fights, the next game vs the Bruins we beat them easily 4-1.

habs03 11-03-2011 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nittany (Post 38891505)
Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom line - not your record against one team.

Was toughness the reason they won the cup? Marchand/Krejci play was the reason, not Shawn Thornton toughness.

PunkinDrublic* 11-03-2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan (Post 38899271)

go to 0:19, how's that not toe to toe?

Toe to toe means to square up and go, and that's what they did. Thornton went after Moen, Moen dropped them and the two went and Moen held his own.

We hardly needed a big stiff like John Scott on the ice...

I beg to differ. This is where the term toe to toe comes from.

Man JK was awesome at what he did. R.I.P big man. Just listen to the crowd, almost as loud as a over time goal. Sniff sniff i miss it.



hogtownhabsfan* 11-03-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHMB Prez (Post 38900455)
I beg to differ. This is where the term toe to toe comes from.

"Toe to Toe" means exactly what it says. To square up toe to toe. That's what Moen did with Thornton last saturday...

gusfring 11-03-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habs03 (Post 38899977)
Was toughness the reason they won the cup? Marchand/Krejci play was the reason, not Shawn Thornton toughness.

Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.

PunkinDrublic* 11-03-2011 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan (Post 38900763)
"Toe to Toe" means exactly what it says. To square up toe to toe. That's what Moen did with Thornton last saturday...

Yes ok, you are right.

habs03 11-03-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nittany (Post 38901201)
Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.

Very true, but being intimidated has nothing to do with physical toughness but all mental toughness. And imo none of our players were intimidated by Bruins. I don't think Gionta/Cammy/ would just stand there getting punched by Marchand.

Maxpac 11-03-2011 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nittany (Post 38901201)
Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.

That's what I can't stand about the "Gautier way" protectors. They just can't admit that thoughness is PART of the big picture. They just throw back comments about us wanting to have a team of goons, or saying that we managed to beat X tough team on X date. You know what, 8th seed teams with no 30-40 goal scorers have made it all the way to the stanley cup. Does that mean that having stars is useless too then? In life just like in hockey, you can always manage when things aren't 100%, but seriously,why do it? As we've pointed a bunch of times, change Mathieu Darche for a real 4th line grinder, get 1 hard-hitting defensmen and the toughness issue becomes obsolete, done, over! It's part of the show and it's part of having a winning formula.

Think about it, we got to the playoffs the last 5-6 years with no powerforwards at all. We have 2 this season, are we better because of it?

uiCk 11-03-2011 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpac (Post 38908901)
That's what I can't stand about the "Gautier way" protectors. They just can't admit that thoughness is PART of the big picture. They just throw back comments about us wanting to have a team of goons, or saying that we managed to beat X tough team on X date. You know what, 8th seed teams with no 30-40 goal scorers have made it all the way to the stanley cup. Does that mean that having stars is useless too then? In life just like in hockey, you can always manage when things aren't 100%, but seriously,why do it? As we've pointed a bunch of times, change Mathieu Darche for a real 4th line grinder, get 1 hard-hitting defensmen and the toughness issue becomes obsolete, done, over! It's part of the show and it's part of having a winning formula.

Think about it, we got to the playoffs the last 5-6 years with no powerforwards at all. We have 2 this season, are we better because of it?

How many friggen times do you need to get quoted over and OVER AND OVER again, by people telling you that NO ONE on these forums thinks toughness is not part of the game. YES IT IS.
How can people not throw the "goon" word out there, when every time a washed up goon hits waivers a bunch of people are like "OMG GIillis, PG is sleeping again". That is NOT thoroughness. What is of discussion, is that a guy who spends more time in the penalty box then on the ice, is obviously not useful to the "big picture". Were people dont agree, is on the definition of "thoughness" and the effect of "intimidation" what acts are actually intimidating.

Also for intimidation, a guy who hammers peoples into boards, will create a "intimidation" effect, but a guy who is on the bench all game, and comes out to fight, is NOT intimidating, since everyone knows you can ignore. You can't ignore a hitting train though, so there is a difference.


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