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-   -   Salary Cap: Rangers to create cap flexibility w/Staal on LTIR (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1021685)

RangerBoy 11-04-2011 05:51 AM

Rangers to create cap flexibility w/Staal on LTIR
 
The Rangers can place Marc Staal on long term IR retroactive to the start of the season. 10 games and 24 days missed. When/if Staal is ready to play this season,the Rangers just free up the remaining money left of Staal's cap hit.

Quote:

The Rangers are making plans to borrow close to an additional $3.975 million of cap space by placing Marc Staal on Long Term Injury exemption in conjunction with personnel moves that will bring the club as close as possible to the cap before taking the step on the alternate captain, sources have told The Post.

Itís believed once the Blueshirts make the necessary moves to come as close to possible to the cap -- including the potential recall of Mats Zuccarello from the AHL Whale in the aftermath of the groin injury suffered by Wojtek Wolski in the first period of last nightís 2-1 shootout victory over the Ducks -- they will then sign and register the contract of free-agent defenseman Anton Stralman, who has agreed to terms on a one-year deal worth $900,000.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1cjE7NSQI

Long term IR benefits the team at or near the upper limit. The Rangers haven't been at or near the upper limit to benefit from long term IR.

The Rangers could free up another $525,000 by putting Chad Kolarik on long term IR. Kolarik counts on the Rangers cap because he suffered a torn ACL during a training camp scrimmage.

BBKers 11-04-2011 06:32 AM

Assuming they place Staal & Kolarik on longterm IR, does this mean there will be available cap space around the deadline? How does this exactly work?

UAGoalieGuy 11-04-2011 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKers (Post 38950085)
Assuming they place Staal & Kolarik on longterm IR, does this mean there will be available cap space around the deadline? How does this exactly work?

If I remember this correctly, if the Rangers are right up against the salary cap when they put Staal and Kolarik on LTIR, they can go over the cap by as much as what their salaries are, retroactive to the start of the season. This means they would get the benefit of using those players full salaries.

So basicly the Rangers will have an extra 4.5 million in cap space to work with. In addition to any cap space they have when they send other player back to the AHL that they used to get as close to the upper limit is possible.

haohmaru 11-04-2011 06:40 AM

This has to make you think that there's no near term hope for Staal's return to the lineup. After the All Star break at the earliest, IMHO.

Glennsoe 11-04-2011 06:44 AM

so a little mixing and tricksing pluss ww's injury get's zuke back perhaps....?

Sucks for Staal, but zuke has to be better than ever if given the chance..

UAGoalieGuy 11-04-2011 07:02 AM

Also makes you wonder if the reason for bringing Avery back up was partially because of this as well, to get closer to the cap ceiling with his salary.

BBKers 11-04-2011 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy (Post 38950117)
If I remember this correctly, if the Rangers are right up against the salary cap when they put Staal and Kolarik on LTIR, they can go over the cap by as much as what their salaries are, retroactive to the start of the season. This means they would get the benefit of using those players full salaries.

So basicly the Rangers will have an extra 4.5 million in cap space to work with. In addition to any cap space they have when they send other player back to the AHL that they used to get as close to the upper limit is possible.

OK - thanks.

So we say that Staal is out until around New Years - ie meaning 90 days and Kolarik until March meaning.

Staals "borrowed" cap space is then $3,975M times 90 divided by 180 days = $1,987,500

Similiarly then placing Kolarik there would save around $350.000.
Total savings would be around $2,3M using this "loophole" (not exactly that...)
This adds up being a prorated amount of over $11M!!! in salary (in addition to ev capspace times 5 from the rest of the roster) to be able to add at the deadline...
Not sure if this is a good or bad thing - knowing our GM.
I would not be surprised if we are doing good - that Sather makes a big splash at the deadline - adding the likes of maybe one or two of Igilna (at what cost?), Doan, Hemsky, Sarich, Souray... almost all pending UFAs (of course depending on where their teams are at the deadline as well) with playoff like veteran characteristics (not sure Hemsky counts here).
Question is - what will the price be?
Time will tell...

Vitto79 11-04-2011 07:11 AM

makes sense. I would like to see both Zuke and Avery in the next game. Stralman is worth a shot

Ola 11-04-2011 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKers (Post 38950275)
OK - thanks.

So we say that Staal is out until around New Years - ie meaning 90 days and Kolarik until March meaning.

Staals "borrowed" cap space is then $3,975M times 90 divided by 180 days = $1,987,500

Similiarly then placing Kolarik there would save around $350.000.
Total savings would be around $2,3M using this "loophole" (not exactly that...)
This adds up being a prorated amount of over $11M!!! in salary (in addition to ev capspace times 5 from the rest of the roster) to be able to add at the deadline...
Not sure if this is a good or bad thing - knowing our GM.
I would not be surprised if we are doing good - that Sather makes a big splash at the deadline - adding the likes of maybe one or two of Igilna (at what cost?), Doan, Hemsky, Sarich, Souray... almost all pending UFAs (of course depending on where their teams are at the deadline as well) with playoff like veteran characteristics (not sure Hemsky counts here).
Question is - what will the price be?
Time will tell...

I don't think that works... You cannot save up LTIR money.

BBKers 11-04-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 38950341)
I don't think that works... You cannot save up LTIR money.

Um OK. I thought this was the point of the aforementioned "borrowing" of cap space - ie not to use Staals (and Kolariks) cap space during time on IR on the total cap amount later in the year. Now not sure about this at all, but Ola usually has his arrows straight so...

RangerBoy 11-04-2011 07:18 AM

The Rangers have $4.2M tied up in the Chris Drury buyout and the bonus overage from last season. Why not take advantage of long term IR? Vancouver,Boston,Philly and Detroit have used long term IR in the past. Instead of being pressed up against the cap with nearly $9M tied up in the Drury buyout,bonus overage and the Staal/Kolarik injuries,the Rangers can use the injured players money to run the team. The Rangers are playing with a $60M cap this season with the Drury buyout and the $527,000 bonuses from last season. The cap is $55.5M with the Staal and Kolarik injuries.

When/if Staal returns the Rangers have to be in compliance with the cap and clear money for Staal's return.

Its in the CBA. Why not use it?

Kritikal 11-04-2011 08:12 AM

The way the LTIR "overage" works is that you can only use the LTIR cushion while the player is on LTIR. While Staal's out, they can use that ~4M elsewhere, but as soon as he's taken off of LTIR, they have to immediately become cap compliant (e.g. through demotions, waivers, or trades). The LTIR "overage" cannot be saved and stockpiled for later in the season. It's sole purpose is to allow a hockey club to replace a player during the duration of his long-term injury, and it only benefits teams at the cap ceiling, as the overage only takes effect if they would be over the cap by adding a player.

GAGLine 11-04-2011 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKers (Post 38950375)
Um OK. I thought this was the point of the aforementioned "borrowing" of cap space - ie not to use Staals (and Kolariks) cap space during time on IR on the total cap amount later in the year. Now not sure about this at all, but Ola usually has his arrows straight so...

LTIR cap space can't be banked. It's use it or lose it. Staal and Kolarik still count against the cap while on LTIR. If we place them on LTIR and then don't add any or remove any players, nothing changes. We'd still be banking the same amount of cap space.

Once we start using the LTIR cap space by exceeding the cap, we'll be banking 0 dollars per day.

To date, we've banked $277,141. At the trade deadline, that will prorate to about 1.25 mil. That won't be nearly enough to add a significant piece. If Staal doesn't come back, then we can continue to use the LTIR cap space, which would enable us to add a significant player. If he does come back, we have to get back under the cap again and will start banking cap space again.

I'm not really sure what we will gain by placing Staal on LTIR. Who are we adding besides Stralman? Who are we adding that will put us over the cap? Unless Staal is going to be out the entire year, I'm not seeing the benefit.

BBKers 11-04-2011 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritikal (Post 38950985)
The way the LTIR "overage" works is that you can only use the LTIR cushion while the player is on LTIR. While Staal's out, they can use that ~4M elsewhere, but as soon as he's taken off of LTIR, they have to immediately become cap compliant (e.g. through demotions, waivers, or trades). The LTIR "overage" cannot be saved and stockpiled for later in the season. It's sole purpose is to allow a hockey club to replace a player during the duration of his long-term injury, and it only benefits teams at the cap ceiling, as the overage only takes effect if they would be over the cap by adding a player.

Thanks. Very clear now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAGLine (Post 38951363)
LTIR cap space can't be banked. It's use it or lose it. Staal and Kolarik still count against the cap while on LTIR. If we place them on LTIR and then don't add any or remove any players, nothing changes. We'd still be banking the same amount of cap space.

Once we start using the LTIR cap space by exceeding the cap, we'll be banking 0 dollars per day.

To date, we've banked $277,141. At the trade deadline, that will prorate to about 1.25 mil. That won't be nearly enough to add a significant piece. If Staal doesn't come back, then we can continue to use the LTIR cap space, which would enable us to add a significant player. If he does come back, we have to get back under the cap again and will start banking cap space again.

I'm not really sure what we will gain by placing Staal on LTIR. Who are we adding besides Stralman? Who are we adding that will put us over the cap? Unless Staal is going to be out the entire year, I'm not seeing the benefit.

OK, I understand. And kind of agree with your assessment. What does RB say?

Kritikal 11-04-2011 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAGLine (Post 38951363)
I'm not really sure what we will gain by placing Staal on LTIR. Who are we adding besides Stralman? Who are we adding that will put us over the cap? Unless Staal is going to be out the entire year, I'm not seeing the benefit.

Having the LTIR overage available to a team that's pushing the cap limit is at worst playing it safe, and at best opening up space that will allow for at the very least a short-term plug. In this case, it opens the door to have both MZA and Avery on the roster (which was not possible with Rupp's salary added to the books this season and the dead cap space from the Drury buyout).

Tony D63 11-04-2011 09:31 AM

I just want staalsy back :'( hopefully he pulls a Jordan staal and makes the winter classic game.

JimmyStart* 11-04-2011 09:47 AM

WOuldnt be worried about this if Capt. Crap hadn't tied up however many mil for flipping pizzas

bernmeister 11-04-2011 10:10 AM

I gather if we trade, say, Kolarik, we get full benefit of losing his salary.

I'm not saying he has value, I'm just saying it could be a consideration negotiated with us where we get more space as part of a bigger deal.

My question is, I agree with GAGline, as to this is a use it or lose it proposition. But is it portable? If Kotalik goes on LTIR, and we trade him/his rights, how does that affect cap situation for the team picking him up.

Thanks in advance to whoever provides the insightful response.
Kudos to all above for an interesting thread.

GAGLine 11-04-2011 10:28 AM

Kolarik is out for the year. No one is going to trade for him, not even for future considerations. And if he's placed on LTIR, I don't think he can be traded until he comes off LTIR.

SML 11-04-2011 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernmeister (Post 38953419)
I gather if we trade, say, Kolarik, we get full benefit of losing his salary.

I'm not saying he has value, I'm just saying it could be a consideration negotiated with us where we get more space as part of a bigger deal.

My question is, I agree with GAGline, as to this is a use it or lose it proposition. But is it portable? If Kotalik goes on LTIR, and we trade him/his rights, how does that affect cap situation for the team picking him up.

Thanks in advance to whoever provides the insightful response.
Kudos to all above for an interesting thread.

If we're throwing injured minor leaguers into a deal, it must be a dandy.

RangerBoy 11-04-2011 10:44 AM

Rupp has an issue with his knee. The Rangers know and aren't revealing the nature of the knee injury. Will Rupp have surgery? Rupp could end up on LTIR. Vancouver had Salo on long term IR with an achilles injury and they just replaced Salo with Malhotra when he suffered the eye injury.

Superstar Carwash 11-04-2011 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyStart (Post 38952751)
WOuldnt be worried about this if Capt. Crap hadn't tied up however many mil for flipping pizzas

Thanks for sharing your constructive comment.

OT: I wouldn't mind putting Staal on LTIR as it gives us some cushion to have some of our better paid players on the roster instead of in AHL. Only problem is that as soon as we take Staal of LTIR we need to clear that cap space, and I don't know what kind of special rules about waivers and such will kick in once these players hit a certain number of games.

Ola 11-04-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritikal (Post 38950985)
The way the LTIR "overage" works is that you can only use the LTIR cushion while the player is on LTIR. While Staal's out, they can use that ~4M elsewhere, but as soon as he's taken off of LTIR, they have to immediately become cap compliant (e.g. through demotions, waivers, or trades). The LTIR "overage" cannot be saved and stockpiled for later in the season. It's sole purpose is to allow a hockey club to replace a player during the duration of his long-term injury, and it only benefits teams at the cap ceiling, as the overage only takes effect if they would be over the cap by adding a player.

Yeah, in fact the regulations for injured players are pretty tough for injury-hit teams so to speak.

Most teams lives on saved up money later in the season. If you go into the year with like 800k of space, by the end of the year you got much more flexibility.

But if you have expensive player out for like the year and replace him for that season, a cap team can't save a thing....

Gardner McKay 11-04-2011 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashiva (Post 38954589)
Thanks for sharing your constructive comment.

OT: I wouldn't mind putting Staal on LTIR as it gives us some cushion to have some of our better paid players on the roster instead of in AHL. Only problem is that as soon as we take Staal of LTIR we need to clear that cap space, and I don't know what kind of special rules about waivers and such will kick in once these players hit a certain number of games.

The stupidity of some people. Drury was a good captain he just declined a bit and was injured. Can't knock the guy.

Any way, Staal on LTIR is the smart move.

KreiMeARiver* 11-04-2011 11:12 AM

I'm really worried about Staal. Like worried we'll never see him again.

This whole Crosby thing has me so paranoid about Staal.


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