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Czech Your Math 11-09-2011 08:39 PM

Who was the 3rd best forward since expansion?
 
Who was the third best forward since expansion. Esposito's full career should be considered. This is based primarily (but not exclusively) on play in the NHL, which may explain at least one exclusion.

Can voted based on peak, prime or career. I look mostly at prime and career, but it's up to you.

These are not necessarily the 15 best forwards, but rather the 15 that seemed most important to include.

WingsFan95 11-09-2011 08:50 PM

Gotta go Trottier.

6 Cups on two teams? Balls.

Honestly it's too hard, I just picked Trottier for the cups but probably lean to Jagr.

Nalyd Psycho 11-09-2011 09:09 PM

Hard to pick between Trottier and Jagr, so different. But I bias towards the well rounded centre.

Hardyvan123 11-09-2011 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho (Post 39209243)
Hard to pick between Trottier and Jagr, so different. But I bias towards the well rounded centre.

This and his 6 cups, 4 as a top player and 2 as a mentor and leader, was the slight difference but other were close as well and injuries took Lindros and Forsberg out of the running.

ted1971 11-10-2011 11:34 AM

I'll take Messier. Grit, leadership, and could score.

GuineaPig 11-10-2011 12:23 PM

Jagr.

jkrx 11-10-2011 12:49 PM

The homer in me wants to say Yzerman or Fedorov (he couldve been) but if Im honest, Ill go with Trottier.

begbeee 11-10-2011 02:27 PM

I've always felt this goes to Messier. Gretzky-Lemiex-Messier. I can see Jagr there maybe. But I'm too young to remember Trottier at his best.

Big Phil 11-10-2011 02:29 PM

I picked Messier. But in all honesty I could easily pick Jagr over him. Maybe Esposito. I find Trottier a slight notch below those three however.

Good poll. Who are forwards #1 and #2? ;)

kingdok 11-10-2011 02:32 PM

Lafleur or Jagr. Maybe Clarke. Can't vote.

Czech Your Math 11-10-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 39234887)
I picked Messier. But in all honesty I could easily pick Jagr over him. Maybe Esposito. I find Trottier a slight notch below those three however.

Good poll. Who are forwards #1 and #2? ;)

What happened to Lafleur's voters? Are they on strike or something?

McNuts 11-10-2011 10:48 PM

Lafleur but I feel he's tied with Jagr, so I went with the homer vote.

DisgruntledGoat 11-10-2011 11:49 PM

Another vote for Mess.

JazzRockford 11-11-2011 07:46 AM

Jagr or Messier, depending on what you value the most. I voted for the Czech guy. 5 Art Ross trophies playing in the deepest talent pool of all time. An excellent Hart record despite being up against a peak Hasek. Underrated playoff performer (and those Pittsburgh team wouldn't even have qualified if not for him).

But let's be clear about what Jagr didn't bring. He wasn't physical. Wasn't even close to a Selke finalist, either. And he certainly isn't talked about as a great leader. So? You could say the same about Lafleur or Bossy. Not every player needs to be complete. Hockey is about creating a perfect team, not a perfect player. I'll take a guy with offensive ability of the highest sort and let somebody else be the leader.

VMBM 11-11-2011 08:45 AM

Had a little inner debate between Jagr and Lafleur. Jagr came out a winner :yo:

Someone actually voted for Dionne? Riiight.

BraveCanadian 11-11-2011 10:18 AM

I could go with any of Messier/Jagr/Lafleur/Trottier

I see Sakic and Yzerman being just a tad below those four.

Tough call determining who is better overall out of those players.

Two were better offensively and two were much more physical and better defensively.

Feds was way too inconsistent and Forsberg/Lindros were hurt too much.

TheDevilMadeMe 11-11-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveCanadian (Post 39281497)
I could go with any of Messier/Jagr/Lafleur/Trottier

I see Sakic and Yzerman being just a tad below those four.

Tough call determining who is better overall out of those players.

Two were better offensively and two were much more physical and better defensively.

Feds was way too inconsistent and Forsberg/Lindros were hurt too much.

I could go with Messier, Jagr, or Lafleur. I just don't think that any small advantage Trottier has in peak performance over Messier can compensate for the fact that he was basically done as an elite player after the age of 27 and done as a first liner after the age of 31.

And before people go "well, what about the fact that Lafleur was done as an elite player at a younger age than Jagr," I'll just point out that he has a playoff advantage over Jagr that Trottier definitely does not have over Messier.

unknown33 11-11-2011 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czech Your Math (Post 39257987)
What happened to Lafleur's voters? Are they on strike or something?

If Jagr keeps his play up for a while, I don't think there will be many left of 'em.

tjcurrie 11-11-2011 10:59 AM

Kurri's on the list because.......??

TheDevilMadeMe 11-11-2011 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjcurrie (Post 39282667)
Kurri's on the list because.......??

What makes him a worse choice than Dionne, Fedorov, Forsberg, or Hull?

Landeskog 11-11-2011 11:08 AM

i went Lindros for the what if factor

tjcurrie 11-11-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 39282859)
What makes him a worse choice than Dionne, Fedorov, Forsberg, or Hull?

Dionne for one is in the top 5 scorers of all time. I know he didnt have any real team success like Kurri did but I'm not counting that when it comes to something like this, unless of course its a guy like Trottier or Yzerman who were obvious leaders. I would place Hull above Kurri too because of his records as a RW and his Hart Trophy, as well as putting up the exact same points career wise having not played the entire 80s. With Gretzky. Forsberg was a way more dominating forward on his own than Kurri, and Fedorov was too except his peak wasnt very long.

Regardless....

None of them really stand a chace in a debate like this with guys like Yzerman,Trottier,Messier,Jagr, etc on the list. To go Trottier, Yzerman, Jagr, Messier, Espostio, Kurri ?

He's just the one that stands out to me, kinda like if you were doing a Who's The 3rd Best Stanley Cup Championship Team Ever ? And you had the 70s Habs and the oilerss as numbers 1 and 2 then had the Islanders, 90s Penguins, 50s Wings, and then 06 Canes as the options. Kurri would be the 06 Canes.

BraveCanadian 11-11-2011 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 39281791)
I could go with Messier, Jagr, or Lafleur. I just don't think that any small advantage Trottier has in peak performance over Messier can compensate for the fact that he was basically done as an elite player after the age of 27 and done as a first liner after the age of 31.

And before people go "well, what about the fact that Lafleur was done as an elite player at a younger age than Jagr," I'll just point out that he has a playoff advantage over Jagr that Trottier definitely does not have over Messier.

My personal opinion (that is totally unbiased mind you ;) ) is that Trottier peaked a fair bit higher than Messier. He was more complete than Messier was overall and by a wide margin in their younger years.

Messier definitely creams him in longevity which brings them back close to even in my opinion.

I think playoffs between those two are close. Again, I think Trottier's best is better (maybe outside '94 but certainly sustained best) and that Messier beats him as far has having more great playoff years. I just can't ignore Trottier having 29 points in three straight playoffs and leading the playoffs in points twice along with his all around play.

Couldn't go wrong with either of those guys for any situation at their best though, that is for sure.

Nalyd Psycho 11-11-2011 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzRockford (Post 39278203)

But let's be clear about what Jagr didn't bring. He wasn't physical. Wasn't even close to a Selke finalist, either. And he certainly isn't talked about as a great leader. So? You could say the same about Lafleur or Bossy. Not every player needs to be complete. Hockey is about creating a perfect team, not a perfect player. I'll take a guy with offensive ability of the highest sort and let somebody else be the leader.

That's why I would never put Lafleur or Bossy above him. But Trottier was physical, great defensively and a leader. So that definitely closes the gap on the offensive difference. The question is does it surpass.

DisgruntledGoat 11-11-2011 01:50 PM

Jagr gets knocke down a tier in my book because you just never knew what you were going to get from him. All-star Jagr or mopey, cherry-picker Jagr. He has a lot o warts that the stats tend to gloss over.

Don't get me wrong... An all-time great but for THIS particular poll, I have a hard time ignoring the ups-and-downs of his personality and, as a result, he comes up a little short of Mess, Trottier, Espo and Lafleur.


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