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-   -   Dump/Chase, Dump/Line Change tactics & cheap loss of puck possession (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1026465)

keepcalmandbeninja 11-10-2011 12:52 PM

Dump/Chase, Dump/Line Change tactics & cheap loss of puck possession
 
Recently I have been frustrated by our deficit in urgency to keep possession of the puck, using tactics like dump/chase, dump/deflect and dump/line change, I would like your thoughts on realistic possible alternatives?

Is it not detrimental to just so cheaply give away possession of the puck to the other team by deliberately submitting the puck to them?

Monctonscout 11-10-2011 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovannicanella (Post 39231407)
Recently I have been frustrated by our deficit in urgency to keep possession of the puck, using tactics like dump/chase, dump/deflect and dump/line change, I would like your thoughts on realistic possible alternatives?

Is it not detrimental to just so cheaply give away possession of the puck to the other team by deliberately submitting the puck to them?

The only times I have seen a lot of dump and chase is whaen they are tired and need a change or the 4th line is out there. Most NHL teams dump and chase more than we do.

Gary320 11-10-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 39231481)
The only times I have seen a lot of dump and chase is whaen they are tired and need a change or the 4th line is out there. Most NHL teams dump and chase more than we do.

They do it alot when tied or losing.
Most of the time, they get away with it, when you face a team with a better coach.. it doesnt work out so much.

SouthernHab 11-10-2011 01:07 PM

With Martin, we are not a puck possession team.

Martin likes to dump the puck in and change all 3 forwards while other teams send the guy with the puck in to keep possession while the other 2 forwards change.

Different philosophies in the NHL. Martin believes what he believes and we will continue to see this in Montreal as long as he is here. He is incapable of change.

Monctonscout 11-10-2011 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39231991)
With Martin, we are not a puck possession team.

Martin likes to dump the puck in and change all 3 forwards while other teams send the guy with the puck in to keep possession while the other 2 forwards change.

Different philosophies in the NHL. Martin believes what he believes and we will continue to see this in Montreal as long as he is here. He is incapable of change.

I don't know of too many players that can attack by themselves why their linemates change, sounds more like a myth than relity.

it could be worse we could have a young bore you out of your seat coach like Boucher.

HH 11-10-2011 01:23 PM

Dump and wait brah

HCH 11-10-2011 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39231991)
Martin likes to dump the puck in and change all 3 forwards while other teams send the guy with the puck in to keep possession while the other 2 forwards change.

Different philosophies in the NHL. Martin believes what he believes and we will continue to see this in Montreal as long as he is here.

I have thought this for a long time. We give the other team an easy breakout from their own end on line changes. It may not seem like a big deal but I think it has the potential to make a huge difference.

#57 11-10-2011 01:36 PM

Instead of dumping the puck on line changes (essentially giving the puck away), I would like to see players break, turn around, and shoot it at Carey Price.

Process line changes, regroup, breakout.

Probably will never happen, but that could be something we do a couple of times per game. Price is a good enough puckhandler to control those passes from time to time.

It's not like Jacques Martin isn't open to those type of ideas. He makes all four of our players stop and stand around after dropping the puck to a striking Gomez on the PP. Gomer then proceeds to deke around everyone before losing the puck while entering the offensive zone.

29dryden29 11-10-2011 02:06 PM

An offensive minded coach will also help to remedy this issue. JM is not that coach so untill he leaves we are screwed.

SouthernHab 11-10-2011 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HCH (Post 39232745)
I have thought this for a long time. We give the other team an easy breakout from their own end on line changes. It may not seem like a big deal but I think it has the potential to make a huge difference.

Yes. Watch for this in tonight's game. Dump the puck in, all three forwards change, the next line comes back on the ice and skate toward the neutral zone/our defensive blue line with very weak if any fore-check.

Other teams exploit the hell out of this against us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 39232267)
I don't know of too many players that can attack by themselves why their linemates change, sounds more like a myth than relity.

it could be worse we could have a young bore you out of your seat coach like Boucher.

Lines on both sides are changing. One forward with the puck carrying it in vs two DMen on the other team. Not a 100% chance that he will keep possession. But it is a chance to keep possession as opposed to the system that Martin uses which is a 0% chance that we will keep possession.

What the hell does Boucher have to do with this discussion? He is employed with another team.

Ollie Williams 11-10-2011 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovannicanella (Post 39231407)
Recently I have been frustrated by our deficit in urgency to keep possession of the puck, using tactics like dump/chase, dump/deflect and dump/line change, I would like your thoughts on realistic possible alternatives?

Is it not detrimental to just so cheaply give away possession of the puck to the other team by deliberately submitting the puck to them?

I'm not in any way an expert on the ice. It seems to me, however, that if you want to make a line change and you want to keep the possession of the puck, you would just have your Defense hold it and let the forwards switch. Wait behind the net if you have to?

Jigger77 11-10-2011 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #57 (Post 39232977)
Instead of dumping the puck on line changes (essentially giving the puck away), I would like to see players break, turn around, and shoot it at Carey Price.

Process line changes, regroup, breakout.

Probably will never happen, but that could be something we do a couple of times per game. Price is a good enough puckhandler to control those passes from time to time.

It's not like Jacques Martin isn't open to those type of ideas. He makes all four of our players stop and stand around after dropping the puck to a striking Gomez on the PP. Gomer then proceeds to deke around everyone before losing the puck while entering the offensive zone.

At first I thought you were joking. Then I realized you weren't. :help: This goes up as one of the strangest (being nice with that word) things I've ever read on here.

Wow.

sevil 11-10-2011 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 39231481)
The only times I have seen a lot of dump and chase is whaen they are tired and need a change or the 4th line is out there. Most NHL teams dump and chase more than we do.

I was in Montreal for the Edmonton game. You said we don't dump and chase??? They were dumping and chasing from the start of the game and they even dump and chased on the power play (every time)

The four guys behind us were flipping out bc of the dump and chase.

Watch tonight and see how many times they actually carry the puck the whole way in!

Ollie Williams 11-10-2011 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevil (Post 39238479)
I was in Montreal for the Edmonton game. You said we don't dump and chase??? They were dumping and chasing from the start of the game and they even dump and chased on the power play (every time)

The four guys behind us were flipping out bc of the dump and chase.

Watch tonight and see how many times they actually carry the puck the whole way in!

Gomez and Kovalev tried this a whole lot. Wasn't fun to watch.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt 11-10-2011 04:14 PM

Dump and chase on the PP is unacceptable. Dump and chase when your skilled players are on the ice (no line change or anything) is also unacceptable.

JLP 11-10-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolument90 (Post 39238861)
Dump and chase on the PP is unacceptable. Dump and chase when your skilled players are on the ice (no line change or anything) is also unacceptable.

we often d&c on the pp it stinks but as has been pointed out unless he is about to be fired jm does not change, probably wears stanfields underwear, poor old man stuck in his ways will never win a cup...

i digress, interesting from #57 the pass back to the goalie soccer-style idea, i mean price can hold well then position to play the puck, this would be a fairly radical innovation ...but, see above

d&change is a good way to ensure that your players will probably be tired when they finally regain possession, so will then d&change...

Playmaker09 11-10-2011 05:36 PM

Why would we not dump and chase? That's exactly what our team is designed to do well.

We have a lot of speed and limited skill hence attempting to carry the puck into the zone is a bad idea more often than not.

We don't have the talent to create scoring chances on a consistent basis. Dump and chase, with an aggressive forecheck is therefore the best way for us to create turnovers that lead to those chances that we're not creating through skill alone.

But Jacques doesn't believe in forechecking after the 1st period. There's your problem.

WhiskeySeven* 11-10-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmaker09 (Post 39241809)
Why would we not dump and chase? That's exactly what our team is designed to do well.

We have a lot of speed and limited skill hence attempting to carry the puck into the zone is a bad idea more often than not.

We don't have the talent to create scoring chances on a consistent basis. Dump and chase, with an aggressive forecheck is therefore the best way for us to create turnovers that lead to those chances that we're not creating through skill alone.

But Jacques doesn't believe in forechecking after the 1st period. There's your problem.

What are you talking about? In the Koivu/Kovalev era, then yes I'd agree but with all this talent you can't possibly think that this team is lacking. I'd say we're above average compared to the rest of the league.

SB164 11-10-2011 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLP (Post 39240391)
we often d&c on the pp it stinks but as has been pointed out unless he is about to be fired jm does not change, probably wears stanfields underwear, poor old man stuck in his ways will never win a cup...

This is OT, but a friend of mine used to date a girl who's family owned the Stanfield company.

Jmac1160* 11-10-2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #57 (Post 39232977)
Instead of dumping the puck on line changes (essentially giving the puck away), I would like to see players break, turn around, and shoot it at Carey Price.

Process line changes, regroup, breakout.

Probably will never happen, but that could be something we do a couple of times per game. Price is a good enough puckhandler to control those passes from time to time.

It's not like Jacques Martin isn't open to those type of ideas. He makes all four of our players stop and stand around after dropping the puck to a striking Gomez on the PP. Gomer then proceeds to deke around everyone before losing the puck while entering the offensive zone.

thats a very interesting theory. n all honesty theres not too much risk involved in doing what the above statement says. Carey is very good with the puck especially when he has lots of time as both teams would likely be changing. Just give it to any dman other than Gill and we're good:nod:. It would never happen but from a possession view I like it.

Playmaker09 11-10-2011 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 39242071)
What are you talking about? In the Koivu/Kovalev era, then yes I'd agree but with all this talent you can't possibly think that this team is lacking. I'd say we're above average compared to the rest of the league.

:help:

It's painfully obvious that we lack talent up front. It's not a coincidence we finished near the bottom of the pack in goals once again last year.

We have a bunch of average players, nothing more. No 30 goal scorers, no PPG (or close really) players and all we do is continue to add more average, complimentary players, as if we didn't have enough already.

When a second year player like Eller is able to control the puck in the offensive zone as good as anyone on this team in the past decade and it's not because he's going to be the next Malkin, it just goes to show how poor we've been in that department for so long.

BBrowser 11-10-2011 07:51 PM

What's with that 3 zone pass up the center on the PP or breaking out? One of those centers cutting accross is gonna get it...

number72 11-10-2011 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39231991)
With Martin, we are not a puck possession team.

Martin likes to dump the puck in and change all 3 forwards while other teams send the guy with the puck in to keep possession while the other 2 forwards change.

Different philosophies in the NHL. Martin believes what he believes and we will continue to see this in Montreal as long as he is here. He is incapable of change.

The team is too small to dump and chase. A team need size to grind along the boards.
JM is doing the best he can with the talent he has.

Le Tricolore 11-10-2011 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovannicanella (Post 39231407)
Recently I have been frustrated by our deficit in urgency to keep possession of the puck, using tactics like dump/chase, dump/deflect and dump/line change, I would like your thoughts on realistic possible alternatives?

Is it not detrimental to just so cheaply give away possession of the puck to the other team by deliberately submitting the puck to them?

We stopped doing it a few games ago and you scored 4 goals last game. What more do you want?

Mike8 11-10-2011 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39231991)
Martin likes to dump the puck in and change all 3 forwards while other teams send the guy with the puck in to keep possession while the other 2 forwards change.

That's a neat tactic, in fact, and regularly employed by well-coached clubs--even their 4th liners do the solo attack to buy time for their line to make changes. If only Montreal had players that could solo attack . . .


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