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-   -   2012-13 Avs d-man situation (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1027989)

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 11:45 AM

Avs d-man situation in the near future
 
Continuing here. Let's assume for the sake of making things interesting that Avs drafts Jones.

Avs have then the d-men with one-way deals as:
Zanon-Johnson-Hunwick-Hejda-O'Brien-Wilson which of Zanon and Hunwick have contracts expiring at 2014.

Then there are other d-men that have to be counted in somehow too:
Elliott-Barrie-Siemens-Jones

How many of these four do you fit into 2013-14 Avs top-7? All of them? If so, what are you doing with the Zanon-Hunwick-Hejda-O'Brien-Wilson group (assuming Johnson stays for sure)?

Landeslog 11-12-2011 11:47 AM

At this point I would be really sad to see anyone other than O'Byrne go. I like O'Byrne but I like the rest of them more and I think bringing up one of the young guys will benefit us more than keeping O'Byrne around.

Foppa Frossa 11-12-2011 11:51 AM

Don't think we'll see Siemens. He needs more time in Juniors/AHL from the sounds of it.

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by en_snabb_svensk (Post 39322957)
Don't think we'll see Siemens. He needs more time in Juniors/AHL from the sounds of it.

Also, it's good to remember that even if you would be good enough to play in NHL, it doesn't 100% surely mean that a season in AHL will ruin your career.

Would someone here see that a trade is coming? Someone of current top-6 for draft picks?

S E P H 11-12-2011 11:54 AM

It's really a great situion to have.

1. Johnson
2. Quincey
3. Hejda
4. O'Brien
5. Wilson
6. O'Byrne

That is how I rank the defensemen. Out of this season I would think O'Byrne would be the odd man out, but I honestly believe he's our stealth part of why our defense has been solid this year. If we get Suter than he automatically replaces anybody in the top 4 and maybe Quincey.

I hope Siemens plays another year in juniors in 2012-2013. No need to rush him. As for Barrie and Elliott, again no reason to rush them considering defense takes the longest to mature besides goalers. But I would like to see one of them in the 7th spot and Hunwick can go away.

TwoPadStack 11-12-2011 11:56 AM

I know some will disagree, but I don't think Tyson Barrie is going to be an effective NHL defenseman. Too small, way too offensive minded, piss poor defensive play. Noticed this when I watched him 4-5 times in the WHL, again for the World Juniors, and in some of the Monsters highlights from this year.

Siemens needs time, no point in rushing him.

Gaunce is a meh prospect. Every team has a guy like that. Not fast, not slow, not overly physical, not soft... a better Holos.

Elliott is the real deal.

Both O'Brien and Hunwick are UFAs. If SOB doesn't want too much money, we can keep him, but we should be looking at an upgrade.

Maybe...

Quincey - Johnson
Wilson - Elliott
Hejda - O'Brien/O'Byrne

Would love...

Suter - Johnson
Wilson - Quincey
Hejda - Elliott
O'Byrne

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E P H (Post 39323023)
It's really a great situion to have.

1. Johnson
2. Quincey
3. Hejda
4. O'Brien
5. Wilson
6. O'Byrne

That is how I rank the defensemen. Out of this season I would think O'Byrne would be the odd man out, but I honestly believe he's our stealth part of why our defense has been solid this year. If we get Suter than he automatically replaces anybody in the top 4 and maybe Quincey.

I hope Siemens plays another year in juniors in 2012-2013. No need to rush him. As for Barrie and Elliott, again no reason to rush them considering defense takes the longest to mature besides goalers. But I would like to see one of them in the 7th spot and Hunwick can go away.

You probably mean in bottom-4. I disagree with your rank, Wilson is in top-3 for sure and I also disagree that a prospect should be #7 d-man. Sipping coffee and eating popcorns is not the way to develop a prospect.

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 11:59 AM

I don't know if betting is allowed here, but I'd be ready to bet that Ryan Suter won't play for Avalanche next season.

S E P H 11-12-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 39323141)
You probably mean in bottom-4. I disagree with your rank, Wilson is in top-3 for sure and I also disagree that a prospect should be #7 d-man. Sipping coffee and eating popcorns is not the way to develop a prospect.

As the 7th they should play in the AHL, but will get a call at anytime.

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E P H (Post 39323241)
As the 7th they should play in the AHL, but will get a call at anytime.

I totally agree. And that's why I really don't understand Avs strategy of having the AHL affiliate from as far from Denver as possible.

Av-merican 11-12-2011 12:34 PM

Siemens won't be ready next year.

It's a good problem to have at least. A lot of prospect who (we hope) will be ready next year and some vets who are making contributions now. At first I thought SOB was the most expendable asset we had, but I really like what he brings.

My best guess...

Elliott - Johnson
Hejda - Quincey
Wilson/O'Brien/O'Byrne

Not sure who the 7th guy is, but it seems like it'd be a waste. For once I'm kinda glad we have Hunwick on the team. I have zero problems with him being in the press box. :laugh:

As for Gaunce and Barrie, they might need a little more time yet. Too early to tell I suppose.

Bonzai12 11-12-2011 12:42 PM

Let them all compete in training camp. No one should be given roster spots on this team.

Christian Litscher 11-12-2011 01:53 PM

If we let O'Brien walk, I wouldn't mind. He's not great on pp or pk and inconsistent. Good leader, but I think we have better hockey players. IF Quincey and Wilson keep up their play:

Quincey-Johnson
Hejda-Elliot
Wilson-X

Whether that last guy is O'Byrne, Barrie, O'Brien, Gaunce, or Ufa, I'm not sure.

I think Hejda is better than what he's shown. If he continues to struggle you probably switch him and Wilson.

I think our team takes the next step with Elliot. Just got to get him ready.

Av-merican 11-12-2011 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 39323401)
I totally agree. And that's why I really don't understand Avs strategy of having the AHL affiliate from as far from Denver as possible.

They're not the only team with that problem. In fact it's not nearly as bad as a lot of the west coast teams (example: the Kings have theirs in Manchester, NH). Hell, it's not even as bad as the Avs when they had their prospects in Hershey, PA. Compared to that situation the Monsters are a much better alternative. Remember, these guys travel by bus, not plane. They have to be closer to one another or else the travel costs for them become prohibitive.

There was a Puck Daddy column not too long ago that stated a lot of NHL teams were considering creating a rival league to the AHL just to have their affiliates a bit closer, or elevating some some ECHL teams (like the Eagles) to AHL status. There's no easy answer.

shadow1 11-12-2011 02:37 PM

Johnson, Quincey, and Hejda will all be back. The other three are up in the air, but I suspect at least one of them will still be around.

TheStranger 11-12-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Av-merican (Post 39327331)
They're not the only team with that problem. In fact it's not nearly as bad as a lot of the west coast teams (example: the Kings have theirs in Manchester, NH). Hell, it's not even as bad as the Avs when they had their prospects in Hershey, PA. Compared to that situation the Monsters are a much better alternative. Remember, these guys travel by bus, not plane. They have to be closer to one another or else the travel costs for them become prohibitive.

There was a Puck Daddy column not too long ago that stated a lot of NHL teams were considering creating a rival league to the AHL just to have their affiliates a bit closer, or elevating some some ECHL teams (like the Eagles) to AHL status. There's no easy answer.

Not sure if it was about a rival league so much as having the AHL create a western division. I could be thinking of a different article, perhaps that one did indicate a rival league.

Nordiques4life 11-12-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1 (Post 39327813)
Johnson, Quincey, and Hejda will all be back. The other three are up in the air, but I suspect at least one of them will still be around.

what about wilson

AvsFan7* 11-12-2011 02:59 PM

Im 80% sure that one of Barrie/Elliot will be traded either for a Forward Propsect wthat looks likely to be a Top 6 guy(Since both look likely to be Top 4 guys) or in part of a package for an already top 6 guy. Both will likely be Top 4 Puck moving Defensman in the NHL and I dont think both of them would fit on the Avs roster! I also think theres a decent chance Gaunce is traded for a Forward prospect or in a package aswell. Gaunce is a fairly good bet to be a Top4 Shutdown guy in a few years(Similar to Hejda in my opinion) and im not sure theres a spot in the Avs Top 4 for him, so IMO if we were to package say Barrie and Gaunce and a 2nd round pick we could probably get a very good Top 6 guy or Very good prospect.

I see the Avs Defense looking like this next year:

EJ(4.5M) - Quincey(3-3.5M)
Hejda(4.25M) - Elliot
Obyrne/Obrien/Wilson - Wilson/Obrien/Obyrne

Quincey is palying amazing so far this year, he's on pace for 62 Points which if he managed to keep this pace up would be an AMAZING year, obviously its unlikely he hits 60+ but I would say 40-50 is a definite possibility, we would be dumb not to bring him back. Elliot will be NHL ready this year, will probably see a little time up there this year, and I think will be able to play top 4. I think Wilson actually has the potential to become Top 4 though and maybe replace Elliot, leaving elliot as a #5 guy but running the 1st PP.

Basically I just dont see Barrie and Gaunce being with the Avs next year, and I think they are both likely to become Top 4 guys in a year or two, so the two of them plus a 2nd round pick in a deep draft IMO could land us a fairly young already Top 6 guy(Maybe Brassard if Duchene moves to the Wing permanently, or Sam Gagner)

Jaymond Flurrie 11-12-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Av-merican (Post 39327331)
They're not the only team with that problem. In fact it's not nearly as bad as a lot of the west coast teams (example: the Kings have theirs in Manchester, NH). Hell, it's not even as bad as the Avs when they had their prospects in Hershey, PA. Compared to that situation the Monsters are a much better alternative. Remember, these guys travel by bus, not plane. They have to be closer to one another or else the travel costs for them become prohibitive.

There was a Puck Daddy column not too long ago that stated a lot of NHL teams were considering creating a rival league to the AHL just to have their affiliates a bit closer, or elevating some some ECHL teams (like the Eagles) to AHL status. There's no easy answer.

I have to say that I'm not an expert on these, but isn't there some teams that have it totally backwards, like for example, does Chicago have AHL team that is an affliate to something else than Blackhawks?

Av-merican 11-12-2011 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 39329145)
I have to say that I'm not an expert on these, but isn't there some teams that have it totally backwards, like for example, does Chicago have AHL team that is an affliate to something else than Blackhawks?

Yes. They were the affiliate of the Thrashers, and now the Canucks. The only close-by affiliates I can think of are Boston/Providence, Dallas/Texas, and Philadelphia/Adirondack. Montreal/Hamilton's another example, and until their owner went nuts, the Rochester Americans had a nice partnership with the Buffalo Sabres.

Sometimes geographic distance is preferred for some teams. The Oilers tried having an affiliate in Toronto and Montreal tried putting theirs in Quebec City after the Nords left. Both were dismal failures. Edmonton set up an affiliate in OKC and seem happy with that, even though there are likely better locales geographically. Frankly, a Blackhawks affiliate in Chicago likely wouldn't work (but their affiliate is close by in Rockford).

But since you bring it up, having a true minor league affiliate in Loveland/Windsor/whatever the hell they call it would probably work.

The best answer is what's been suggested as having two rival conferences in the AHL who don't play one another until the finals. That takes care of travel difficulties for the AHL teams and geographic problems for the NHL teams, but then the problem lies with establishing enough other teams within reasonable driving distance of one another in the western portion of the country. OKC is already here, so then what? Utah (where the Grizzlies went after the Avs came to town), Arizona (who knows, they'll probably be an AHL town after this year anyway), and Vegas?

Kschey 11-12-2011 03:51 PM

I definitely see one of Barrie/Elliott being with the team next year. Would be surprised if both go back to the AHL to start the season.

So, if we do not add anyone via trade or FA market:

Quincey-Johnson
Hejda-Elliott
Wilson-O'Brien

with O'Brien possibly here and there being replaced by O'Byrne or even Gaunce, I think.

That's what I would think right now, might still change though. In the end training camp should decide about the 5th, 6th, 7th D.

18Mike18 11-12-2011 09:52 PM

i think O'Byrne is the one gone, maybe even SOB aswell, depending on contract/other players. ^^ Kscheys looks about right

The Mars Volchenkov 11-12-2011 11:49 PM

I'd love to keep O'Brien around as a bottom pairing guy for a while. He's well liked in the locker room, he seems to be a leader on the team, and his play has been solid. I'd dump O'Byrne before him.

the_fan 11-13-2011 12:44 AM

I think Avs will move back to Quebec in 2012-2013, after the team collapses this year and wins like 3 games in the remaining 60 or so games, the pepsi center attendance drops to 2.000 people per game, Kroenke forced to sell the team.

The team goes back to Quebec and changes management which starts to build the team like they did in the old Nords days. They draft well, become a good team, and move back to Denver in 2038, and wins the cup first year back in Denver.

Blue Dragon 11-13-2011 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 39329145)
I have to say that I'm not an expert on these, but isn't there some teams that have it totally backwards, like for example, does Chicago have AHL team that is an affliate to something else than Blackhawks?

Do not bring up the possibility of the Wolves becoming the Hawks affiliate. The two franchises have a long history of antipathy.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Av-merican (Post 39329883)
Yes. They were the affiliate of the Thrashers, and now the Canucks. The only close-by affiliates I can think of are Boston/Providence, Dallas/Texas, and Philadelphia/Adirondack. Montreal/Hamilton's another example, and until their owner went nuts, the Rochester Americans had a nice partnership with the Buffalo Sabres.

The owner of the Sabres just recently bought Rochester's AHL team. They and the Sabres are back together. You're also missing Toronto/Toronto, Carolina/Charlotte, Isles/Bridgeport, Pens/Wiles-Barre Scranton and Rangers/Hartford.


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