HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   The Rink (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=150)
-   -   A New Approach to Weightlifiting (thoughts appreciated) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1028843)

ComradeChris 11-13-2011 01:30 PM

A New Approach to Weightlifiting (thoughts appreciated)
 
I usually work out 4 days a week with weights training my legs, back, core, abs, arms, shoulders, and the chest. I try to work it all in during one week so my muscles are only being trained really once a week. Now in saying this I was thinking about changing up my workout routine from the norm and see if I see any spikes in strength gain because of it. I was thinking about switching to working each area for a whole week and then doing the same for the next one.

Week 1 Legs

Week 2 Back

Week 3 Core and Abs

Week 4 Chest

Week 5 Shoulders

Week 6 Biceps, Triceps, forearms

Doing the same thing working out 4 days a week, but isolating the exercises to one area for a week before moving on. I'm only planning on doing this routine once. So once the 6 weeks are over I'm going back to my normal routine where all body parts are worked in a week. I just felt like this might allow me the ability to exceed the plateaus I'm experiencing in my lifting and allow me to take it to the next level.

What say you? Under a regime such as this would it be cause for overtraining?

noobman 11-13-2011 02:24 PM

A question like this is better suited for a fitness forum.

I'm not an expert, but I'd imagine that pushing heavy weights with one muscle group 4x a week isn't going to give those muscles enough recovery time for you to see optimal gains. Once that week is done you're letting that group sit idly for a long time.

I can't imagine you seeing any gains after taxing your legs a ton in week one then not working them at the gym for the next five weeks.

rinkrat22 11-13-2011 02:32 PM

muscles grow during the recovery process. you are not allowing them to recover with this program. if you have hit a wall change up the exercises that you use for each body part. or do more explosive, olympic lifts for a few weeks. But you must allow your body to recover.

hyster110 11-13-2011 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeChris (Post 39375983)
I usually work out 4 days a week with weights training my legs, back, core, abs, arms, shoulders, and the chest. I try to work it all in during one week so my muscles are only being trained really once a week. Now in saying this I was thinking about changing up my workout routine from the norm and see if I see any spikes in strength gain because of it. I was thinking about switching to working each area for a whole week and then doing the same for the next one.

Week 1 Legs

Week 2 Back

Week 3 Core and Abs

Week 4 Chest

Week 5 Shoulders

Week 6 Biceps, Triceps, forearms

Doing the same thing working out 4 days a week, but isolating the exercises to one area for a week before moving on. I'm only planning on doing this routine once. So once the 6 weeks are over I'm going back to my normal routine where all body parts are worked in a week. I just felt like this might allow me the ability to exceed the plateaus I'm experiencing in my lifting and allow me to take it to the next level.

What say you? Under a regime such as this would it be cause for overtraining?



definately not enough rest!! vut it down to a 4 days

day 1 chest
day 2 legs
day 3 rest (some light cardio)
day 4 shoulders and back
day 5 arms
days 6 rest
day 7 rest


then mix in abs all around in your work out days

The Tikkanen 11-13-2011 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeChris (Post 39375983)
I usually work out 4 days a week with weights training my legs, back, core, abs, arms, shoulders, and the chest. I try to work it all in during one week so my muscles are only being trained really once a week. Now in saying this I was thinking about changing up my workout routine from the norm and see if I see any spikes in strength gain because of it. I was thinking about switching to working each area for a whole week and then doing the same for the next one.

Week 1 Legs

Week 2 Back

Week 3 Core and Abs

Week 4 Chest

Week 5 Shoulders

Week 6 Biceps, Triceps, forearms

Doing the same thing working out 4 days a week, but isolating the exercises to one area for a week before moving on. I'm only planning on doing this routine once. So once the 6 weeks are over I'm going back to my normal routine where all body parts are worked in a week. I just felt like this might allow me the ability to exceed the plateaus I'm experiencing in my lifting and allow me to take it to the next level.

What say you? Under a regime such as this would it be cause for overtraining?

That's how bodybuilders workout. Are you trying to become a body builder or get better at hockey?

mbowman 11-13-2011 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyster110 (Post 39379367)
definately not enough rest!! vut it down to a 4 days

day 1 chest
day 2 legs
day 3 rest (some light cardio)
day 4 shoulders and back
day 5 arms
days 6 rest
day 7 rest


then mix in abs all around in your work out days

he's talking about weeks, not days. doing legs for a week, then back for a week, then core for a week, etc.

hyster110 11-13-2011 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbowman (Post 39402489)
he's talking about weeks, not days. doing legs for a week, then back for a week, then core for a week, etc.

i realize but that isthe basic plan i see lots of players using

Jarick 11-14-2011 09:29 AM

I'm not an experienced lifter by any means but I've never heard of a routine like this. Usually once you get over the initial beginner gains and start to plateau, you want to increase the rest time, as much as 7-10 days per muscle group.

Honestly, I would drop it down to 3-4 days per week and focus on the basic compound lifts doing multiple sets of fewer reps. You may want to take off a week or two and deload the weight if you're plateauing.

What's your current workout look like and how much are you putting up on the basic lifts (deadlift, squats, bench, etc)?

johnny1976 11-14-2011 12:14 PM

First how long have you lifted since your last break? If its been over 8 weeks take one week off and do not touch a weight for that week.

You need to switch things up from time to time. Not just your lifts, but your reps and weight. For example if you're doing barbell curls switch to doing incline curls with dumbbells.

Also one great plateau buster that I use is called drop sets. These are sets that you lift a certain amount of weight to failure then you take 10%-15% of the weight off and lift again, resting only for the time it takes you to take the weight off the bar.

Example bench press
225lbs - reps failure
215lbs - reps failure
200lbs - reps failure
185lbs - reps failure


Do this for 4 sets per body part and trust me you will have that pump feeling, however you can't use this form of training all the time because you will overtrain.

newfr4u 11-14-2011 02:02 PM

this schedule sucks. everyone has already addressed the rest issue, but without knowing your sleep regimen, age, genetic potential, lifting experience, and which steroids you are taking, it COULD be ok, but probably not.

however...

first of all, there's far less context than needed to make a complete judgement. more specifically, what is your lifting schedule like right now? what is the weight you are pushing in your worksets in the major lifts (squat/bench)? what has your progression been like? how many lbs did you add to your squat in the past 3 months? if you are stalling, explain what have you tried to overcome the plateau?

secondly, and most importantly, i suspect you are not anywhere close to being a candidate for the hypertrophy routine like the one you proposed. you should realize that when bodybuilders switch to hypertrophy and isolation programming, they do not completely cut out the basic compound lifts. they do isolation IN ADDITION to pushing maintentance weight in the compound exercises.

finally, the wisdom of doing this IN SEASON, or at the very least while also actively playing/practicing hockey, is ignorant at best, and just plain retarded at worst.

newfr4u 11-14-2011 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny1976 (Post 39415491)
First how long have you lifted since your last break? If its been over 8 weeks take one week off and do not touch a weight for that week.

You need to switch things up from time to time. Not just your lifts, but your reps and weight. For example if you're doing barbell curls switch to doing incline curls with dumbbells.

Also one great plateau buster that I use is called drop sets. These are sets that you lift a certain amount of weight to failure then you take 10%-15% of the weight off and lift again, resting only for the time it takes you to take the weight off the bar.

Example bench press
225lbs - reps failure
215lbs - reps failure
200lbs - reps failure
185lbs - reps failure


Do this for 4 sets per body part and trust me you will have that pump feeling, however you can't use this form of training all the time because you will overtrain.

this advice is horrible.

"take a week off" might be ok, if the guy is overtrained. it's unlikely that he is, and if he is, he might need to take 3 months off.

"switch things up"? there's no indication that he needs a programming change. and going from barbell curls to incline dumbell curls is very similar to switching from white shoelaces to black shoelaces on your road games. i can't think of two more worthless exercises for the average player.

and finally, going for super volume to the tune of 4 sets to failure with no rest is quite possibly the biggest injury risk he can take on. it's also pretty LOL that you said "take 10-15% of the weight off", then proceeded to prescribe sets of 225-215-200-185.

Stick To Your Guns 11-14-2011 02:18 PM

The routine you have is something that I do, but I do it for football, which is totally different then hockey as far as training goes. But I rest for 2 days, core and abs can be worked in on any day so don't devote a day to it. Devote that day to some cardio, just my 2 cents.

Jumbo* 11-14-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeChris (Post 39375983)
I usually work out 4 days a week with weights training my legs, back, core, abs, arms, shoulders, and the chest. I try to work it all in during one week so my muscles are only being trained really once a week. Now in saying this I was thinking about changing up my workout routine from the norm and see if I see any spikes in strength gain because of it. I was thinking about switching to working each area for a whole week and then doing the same for the next one.

Week 1 Legs

Week 2 Back

Week 3 Core and Abs

Week 4 Chest

Week 5 Shoulders

Week 6 Biceps, Triceps, forearms

Doing the same thing working out 4 days a week, but isolating the exercises to one area for a week before moving on. I'm only planning on doing this routine once. So once the 6 weeks are over I'm going back to my normal routine where all body parts are worked in a week. I just felt like this might allow me the ability to exceed the plateaus I'm experiencing in my lifting and allow me to take it to the next level.

What say you? Under a regime such as this would it be cause for overtraining?

:facepalm:

Some of you really need to educate yourself on working out. There are cheap books on Amazon you can order, I recommend Arnold's book.

This might have been one of the worst training schedules i've ever seen in my life. You will see no results and probably end up hurting yourself.

newfr4u 11-14-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 39409885)
I'm not an experienced lifter by any means but I've never heard of a routine like this. Usually once you get over the initial beginner gains and start to plateau, you want to increase the rest time, as much as 7-10 days per muscle group.

Honestly, I would drop it down to 3-4 days per week and focus on the basic compound lifts doing multiple sets of fewer reps. You may want to take off a week or two and deload the weight if you're plateauing.

What's your current workout look like and how much are you putting up on the basic lifts (deadlift, squats, bench, etc)?

some good points in here, except 7-10 days of rest per muscle group is misleading. there are no muscle groups in compound lifts that you can rest for that long and still lift.

if you are plateau-ing on a some beginner progression, here's the list of things to try:

1) up the calories and the protein intake for an entire week, see if that helps.
2) review your injuries. are any of your muscles sore or weak or painful for reasons other than normal? commit to foam rolling and/or get several deep tissue massages.
3) make absolutely sure you get enough sleep. call in sick to work if you have to.
4) take an extra day of rest before you lift (2 days instead of 1 for example)
5) reset the weight. take 10% of the weight off, and repeat workouts while adding 5 lbs each workout.
6) if all else fails, microload. add 2 lbs each workout, instead of 5. for lifts like OHP, 2lb might still be high. try 1lb increases.

IF the above is not the issue/fails several times, consider going to intermediate programming.

jorbjorb 11-14-2011 02:38 PM

try this.

monday - shoulders/triceps
tuesday - back/biceps
Wednesday- off
thursday - chest/biceps
friday - legs
saturday - off or cardio
sunday - off or cardio

works for me.

johnny1976 11-14-2011 06:50 PM

newfr4u,

Bad advice? Lets touch on some of the things you brought up.

First you said,

""switch things up"? there's no indication that he needs a programming change. and going from barbell curls to incline dumbell curls is very similar to switching from white shoelaces to black shoelaces on your road games. i can't think of two more worthless exercises for the average player."

Isn't that what he is asking? He has plateaued and asking if he should do something different. So tell me this, when you workout do you change your routine or do you just stick with the same lifts? About the curls, is he not working his arms? I gave him an example about switching his lifts up to help him through his plateau and that was it. Also did he say he was working out to improve his game? What if he was asking a general fitness question about getting stronger?

Next you said,

"and finally, going for super volume to the tune of 4 sets to failure with no rest is quite possibly the biggest injury risk he can take on. it's also pretty LOL that you said "take 10-15% of the weight off", then proceeded to prescribe sets of 225-215-200-185."

This is an overload principal that will help gain strength and mass. However I should have explained you rest between lifts. Do your 4 sets of squats then rest for 5 minutes and do your four set of bench then rest another 5 minutes and do your 4 sets for your back and rest and so on. I have never been hurt in the last 15 years of doing these drop sets. You were right about my math however, I was at work, but I think I got my point accross.

These suggestions I gave work for me and they have been proven time and time again to create size and strength.

p.s. you did have a good point about upping his protein and calories per day.

newfr4u 11-14-2011 07:09 PM

johnny,

1) he THINKS he may have plateau-ed, which I am not convinced he has. if he has not significantly stalled (see list of things to try in my post above), he should stay on a beginner program. he has not told us what program he is on, but any "switching" he should is TO the beginner's program if he is doing something else. there's no such thing as "spikes in strength". there's only linear gains for beginners, and sub-linear gains for intermediate/advanced lifters.

curls are useless unless you are a bodybuilder. there i said it. going from barbell curls to dumbells is even worse, because you can certainly load a barbell more effectively than dumbells. there's a time and place for dumbells, this is not one of those. if you want to work arms, do bench/ohp for pushing, and rows/pullups for pulling.

2) the overload principle is not what you think it means. any maximal effort is an overload. it has nothing to do with "tak[ing] 10%-15% of the weight off and lift again, resting only for the time it takes you to take the weight off the bar" and continuing the lift until further failure. doing heavy lifts past failure promotes bad technique BY DEFINITION, and thus introduces unnecessary risk of injury.

3) great, these suggestions work for a sample size of yourself. please don't recommend them to the general public without further clinical research.

Stealthmode16 11-14-2011 08:58 PM

Pointlessly overworking the same bodypart for a week with little to no benefit, only to neglect that same bodypart for 5 weeks while you do the same to another area?

Stick to the basics and eat right. Learn, don't invent.

cptjeff 11-14-2011 09:27 PM

NHL players are almost all doing completely bodyweight based exercises these days. The heavy lifting for bigger muscles is actually quite counterproductive if you're trying to become a better hockey player.

SmellOfVictory 11-14-2011 10:50 PM

To build: increase your weight, drop reps. Ideally, you shouldn't be able to do more than about 6-7 reps/set (4 sets per exercise). Do a full body workout twice a week, or do half your muscle groups at a time, alternating every other day with a 2 day 'weekend' break (e.g. for two weeks: AxBxAxxBxAxBxx).

The general rule of thumb is: low reps/high weight will give better strength gains, higher reps/lower weight will give better muscle endurance/cardio gains.

newfr4u 11-15-2011 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff (Post 39442285)
NHL players are almost all doing completely bodyweight based exercises these days. The heavy lifting for bigger muscles is actually quite counterproductive if you're trying to become a better hockey player.

jesus, where are you getting this drivel?

Daryl 11-15-2011 02:17 AM

Seems like a good idea,go for it man!

ean 11-15-2011 10:51 AM

Try this:

Day 1- 5x5 squat, lunges
Day 2- 5x5 bench, dips
Day 3- 5x5 deadlift, pullups

Give yourself a day of rest or so in between. Off days I would be doing cardio and your core work. 5x5 means you do 5 sets of 5 reps, all at the same weight. If you fall a few reps short, keep at the same weight until you make all 25. If you fall several reps short, then drop 20 lbs the next week and start over. This is a very simple approach and also very effective. Always maintain good form and eat.

UvBnDatsyuked 11-18-2011 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff (Post 39442285)
NHL players are almost all doing completely bodyweight based exercises these days. The heavy lifting for bigger muscles is actually quite counterproductive if you're trying to become a better hockey player.

Body weight workouts are being pushed by many with Convict Conditioning and the like. but every single intelligent trainer will say that a great training program does not consist of one single thing or holy grail over another. There is a place for bodyweight workouts. There is a place for Olympic lifting or something of the like with kettlebells. There is a place for sprints. There is a place in a workout for longer running or biking. There are 1,000's of pro hockey players in the NHL, KHL, SEL, etc and there are probably 100's of different workout thoughts.

There is no revolution of NHL players sticking to just body weight workouts. Are there a few? I'm sure there are.

Martin St Louis Heavy DL'ing Squatting well over 400 lbs Tree trunk legs not from body weight squats or Hindu squats
http://www.muscleprodigy.com/most-ja...arcl-1756.html

Alfredsson High weight Hanging Cleans 300 lbs
http://www.accottawa.com/olympic-style.html

Letang Towell chin ups with 80 lbs and body weight Do a youtube search of his summer workout. Three videos out there with single leg squats with double body weight

I agree with the one poster that said some of you guys don't know the basics of a productive program. You can try to reinvent the wheel but there are too many people who are willing to share their knowledge. Try www.tnation.com great articles www.dragondoor.com

Also search for TR Goodman and obviously Gary Roberts knows what he is talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XllAAQXfK8A There are many others out there based on Gary Roberts thoughts

Jarick 11-18-2011 03:08 PM

Stronglifts 5x5 should be the starting point. Squats. Deadlifts. Rows. Presses. Bench. Big weights grow muscle and strength and work the heart and lungs too.

Unless you're putting up big numbers on those basic lifts, complicating things isn't going to help.

Simplefit I think is a solid beginner program, better than nothing for sure. Pushups, pullups, squats. No it's not complete but it's the basics.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.