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-   -   Dawes=THN pick for WHL MVP (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=103554)

NYR469 09-14-2004 09:06 PM

Dawes=THN pick for WHL MVP
 
in the newest issue of THN they have their CHL preview and they picked their favorite to win MVP in each league...

QMJHL: Sidney Crosby
OHL: Corey Perry
WHL: Nigel Dawes

:banana: :banana:

Ocelot 09-14-2004 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
in the newest issue of THN they have their CHL preview and they picked their favorite to win MVP in each league...

QMJHL: Sidney Crosby
OHL: Corey Perry
WHL: Nigel Dawes

:banana: :banana:


Nice. I'm going to have to check that out.

CoolDude* 09-15-2004 01:15 AM

Way to go !!

Edge 09-15-2004 01:35 AM

I dunno about that.....especially if there is a lockout. I expect bigger seasons than his from at least ten players.

LiquidClown 09-15-2004 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I dunno about that.....especially if there is a lockout. I expect bigger seasons than his from at least ten players.


Comeon Edge, I know you know your stuff but can't you at least let us enjoy this...there doesn't seem to be all that much to enjoy this fall being a hockey fan...especially a Rags fan....we need all the good news we can get!

Brooklyn Ranger 09-15-2004 03:12 AM

Yeah, Edge, drink the Kool-Aid and learn to enjoy it!

Edge 09-15-2004 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Yeah, Edge, drink the Kool-Aid and learn to enjoy it!

Touche'. :lol

I don't mean to be a bummer {I think he is a good prospect} but I'm just trying to be a little realistic here. For every person who looks at that and says "lemme just enjoy the moment" we all know there's gonna be 10 in a few months either writing Dawes off as a bust and another overrated prospect or praising him as the next St. Louis.

Besides I am angry dang it! 24 hours till we officially start another stupid hockey lockout. Personally I blame Singinthebluesonbroadway. Him and his stupid mod powers.....

Brooklyn Ranger 09-15-2004 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
Touche'. :lol

I don't mean to be a bummer {I think he is a good prospect} but I'm just trying to be a little realistic here. For every person who looks at that and says "lemme just enjoy the moment" we all know there's gonna be 10 in a few months either writing Dawes off as a bust and another overrated prospect or praising him as the next St. Louis.

Besides I am angry dang it! 24 hours till we officially start another stupid hockey lockout. Personally I blame Singinthebluesonbroadway. Him and his stupid mod powers.....

I used to disgusted,
Now I try and be amused (and why can't I remember why)
The Angels want to wear my red shoes? :shakehead

This too shall pass.

Edge 09-15-2004 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
I used to disgusted,
Now I try and be amused (and why can't I remember why)
The Angels want to wear my red shoes? :shakehead

This too shall pass.

I think it gets to me a bit more by watching people I know get affected. Take a guy like Ken Arnold who does media relations for the Sharks. His award winning team is GONE. Some of those people who worked in the sport out of love are {in a basic term} screwed.

That fuled with my opinion on the current "agenda" of our country and I've become a pretty bitter person.

My poor wife......the list of tv channels I am not allowed to watch keeps growing. First it was Fox news.....now it's ESPN, ESPN2 and any other sports channel......

Brooklyn Ranger 09-15-2004 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I think it gets to me a bit more by watching people I know get affected. Take a guy like Ken Arnold who does media relations for the Sharks. His award winning team is GONE. Some of those people who worked in the sport out of love are {in a basic term} screwed.

That fuled with my opinion on the current "agenda" of our country and I've become a pretty bitter person.

My poor wife......the list of tv channels I am not allowed to watch keeps growing. First it was Fox news.....now it's ESPN, ESPN2 and any other sports channel......

I know how you feel. Sports was always an escape for me--I could turn on a hockey game and totally forget the world outside. Now, I can barely muster up the energy to watch a period without skipping around during TV timeouts.

I'd say this too shall pass, but there is too much uncertainty in the world to even be that optimistic--and this is coming from someone who's just old enough to remember ducking under my desk during an air raid drill.

We are truly condemned to live in interesting times.

Edge 09-15-2004 04:15 AM

I think the deciding moment for me was getting a call that one of my best friends had died in the war and then watching Bush do his little "where are the WMD's? Oops not under there" joke...... but we'll leave that subject along for the boards before poor Singin has to play ref again and break up the verbal brawl that would certainly occur on here.

For hockey I think it's hard being old enough to remember the era of great promise this sport once had{as you would too}.

In the early 90's things were fun. Scoring was up, fighting was in, expansion seemed cool, salaries weren't insane and teams were doing at least okay. The Rangers had a "team" and not just 27 players and a coach type "Team" but a pack of guys you could love.

Heck even the game could be watched. There wasn't this clutching and grabbing. When a guy had it coming, he knew what he had to do. There weren't fake outs and run away's. Incidents like the Bertuzzi one were usually avoided because a guy like Steve Moore would have know it was his role to back up his hit on Naslund.

People in the game understood the game. They accepted it for what it was and they didn't try to change it because they didn't like something. Players accepted how rough and tough the sport was, they didn't sit there and say "I don't have to fight"....unless of course you were Mike Bossy and then you just about hated to have anyone's shadow on you......

Europe seemed like the wave of the future and the league's future seemed like something.

Scrubs played in the minors and teams actually had 25 goal players on their third lines.

On good team's the first line center got 100 points, the second line center around 70 and so on and so on. Now a 60 point season is a "nice" year.

Fighters fought....they had to. There were no million dollar contracts for fighters. These guys didn't think about a career, they thought about a game.

Now I look and I see Sandy McCarthy's making 1 million. The league can't give away it's product and we have yet another lockout as salaries go beyond the level of any rational thought. Why? Because a handful of owners who couldn't even tell you the techincal aspects of the sport want new "toys" and we are supposed to believe that they care about the league and wouldn't purposefully lose money in an orgy or stupidity......

Yeah, I'm bitter. I can't pretend I'm not. I can't sit here and smile during stupid comments and I can't pretend that I don't miss the sport. Hockey has become an abusive parent. I hate that I hate it as I hate that I love it. I want to wish it away and never see it again and yet if it's right in front of my eyes I'll look at nothing else. I curse it, I've given my time to it, heck I've even worked with it.....and I can't help but lovehate it. And with that lovehate I watch its self destructive nature, i watch it abuse those who love it and I watch the whole picture unravel if only to be held together by a selfishness that won't die.

Yeah, I'm pissed. Because 15 years I never thought it'd come to this.....again.....and again......and again.

Ola 09-15-2004 06:49 AM

Whats most frustrating to me is that the people who created this mess are still in charge. The knowledege they have of the game and sports in general is pitiful. For example, when the issue of removing the redline was raised during the olympiques. After the tournament Bettman had made up his mind, he said something "look all of the best talent is here but the scoring still didnīt go up". What did he expect in one
game elimination format?

Hockey is my by far my fav. game but I watch allot of sports. A sport like Soccer has brougth its scoring up by 150-200% with allot of small fine tuning of their rules. In soccer a ball like they used in the WC costs something like 100$ to make. They`ve had hundreds of scientist who works day and nigth to come up with a ball like they use today. Hockey has done basically nothing, the puck has been the same for 150 years. If they could create a faster puck so 75% of the players would shoot like MacInnis scoring would be up. If they could limit obstruction scoring would be up, but they havenīt even tried. Hockey today is basically a game without rules, a two minute penalty doesnīt hurt. A trapping team can take 4 obstructions penaltys, they know they will get atleast 4 minutes PP because the refs will compensate them and they know that it wonīt matter when it counts, because the refs wonīt call anything late in games and in the playoffs.

Why donīt hockey starts calling "team penaltys", if a team is called two times for obstruction, give them a 5 minute penalty. Refeeres are like a producer of a game in most sports, but in hockey a team can completly ignoree any guidelines or crackdowns ment to change the game and still win! That would be impossible in Soccer, Basketball, baseball and probably even in Fotball or Rugby... If a player gets a redcard in soccer his team will most likely lose, all it takes is that a player pulls someones jersey twice and his team will lose.

My hope is that if changes are going to be made its up to the CHL. If they change their game the NHL have to follow.

NYR469 09-15-2004 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I dunno about that.....especially if there is a lockout. I expect bigger seasons than his from at least ten players.

the agreement between the nhl & chl which prevents 18-19 year olds from playing in the AHL has expired and while it hasn't been officially confirmed (and most likely won't be until thursday) it appears that guys like horton, bergeron, etc will be going down to the AHL not back to juniors...so the lockout might not effect juniors as much. of course there will still be some guys that otherwise would have made the jump returning to juniors...

dawes has been one of the top goal scorers 2 years in a row...so imo the thing that hurts his chances of being mvp is the fact that kootenay isn't a very good team...individually dawes could be the best players in the league, but the mvp will most likely go to someone on a better team since winning is a factor.

either way the main point is that dawes is getting respect and recognition from the hockey world...

Fletch 09-15-2004 12:29 PM

I took a different stance, Edge...
 
in supressing my excitement, I reminded myself that WHL success doesn't always translate into NHL success. And the MVPs of the WHL playoffs from 1992-2000 were fairly nondescript people including Jarrett Deuling, Andy Schneider, Steve Passmore, Nolan Baumgartner, Bobby Brown, Blaine Russell, Brent Melecki, Brad Moran, and of course our own Blackburn. Of course it's not clearly apples and apples, but perhaps it's green apples and red apples.

It is another arrow in the prospect quiver, and hopefully a few of these guys will work out.

Edge 09-15-2004 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
the agreement between the nhl & chl which prevents 18-19 year olds from playing in the AHL has expired and while it hasn't been officially confirmed (and most likely won't be until thursday) it appears that guys like horton, bergeron, etc will be going down to the AHL not back to juniors...so the lockout might not effect juniors as much. of course there will still be some guys that otherwise would have made the jump returning to juniors...

dawes has been one of the top goal scorers 2 years in a row...so imo the thing that hurts his chances of being mvp is the fact that kootenay isn't a very good team...individually dawes could be the best players in the league, but the mvp will most likely go to someone on a better team since winning is a factor.

either way the main point is that dawes is getting respect and recognition from the hockey world...

I like Dawes as much as anyone {maybe more} but as I said I can name at least 10 players who have a legit chance at it {who never played in the NHL so therefore would be fine playing in juniors}.

That's not necessarily a knock on Dawes so much as admitting that some guys who would be NHL players next season {as rookies} will now be back for another season of junior action.

ATLANTARANGER* 09-16-2004 09:48 AM

Gee, maybe now Dawes' rating will be as good as Adrian Foster's of the devils!

Levitate 09-16-2004 07:19 PM

Quote:

Incidents like the Bertuzzi one were usually avoided because a guy like Steve Moore would have know it was his role to back up his hit on Naslund.
maybe i'm wrong but i thought moore did back up his hit on naslund...he took on the cannucks tough guy (brad may was it? mehhh) twice in the game where bertuzzi went nuts, if i remember correctly.

NYR469 09-16-2004 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate
maybe i'm wrong but i thought moore did back up his hit on naslund...he took on the cannucks tough guy (brad may was it? mehhh) twice in the game where bertuzzi went nuts, if i remember correctly.

yep moore dropped the gloves with may twice in that game...

Edge 09-16-2004 08:22 PM

And they'd go after him again and again. But the instigator rule changes all of that.

I'm not making an excuse for Bertuzzi by any means, but the instigator rule is going to lead to more incidents like that.

EvilCorporateLawyer 09-17-2004 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I like Dawes as much as anyone {maybe more} but as I said I can name at least 10 players who have a legit chance at it {who never played in the NHL so therefore would be fine playing in juniors}.

That's not necessarily a knock on Dawes so much as admitting that some guys who would be NHL players next season {as rookies} will now be back for another season of junior action.

But who are they?

Brule is probably one of them.

I can think of about 6 or 7 but not really 10. And it gets thin after 5 and most are stretches.

Levitate 09-17-2004 06:57 PM

Quote:

And they'd go after him again and again. But the instigator rule changes all of that.
i don't really get it though...the guy throws a hit (most say it was clean, some say dirty) on a star player...alright, then he backs it up by fighting the teams tough guy, twice even. just how long is he supposed to "back it up" and be "honerable" or something?

is he just supposed to keep dropping the gloves every time he gets on the ice? that's bull IMO...if we expect these guys to "back it up" we need to expect the other team to acknowledge when they've done that and call it even or whatever

Edge 09-17-2004 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate
i don't really get it though...the guy throws a hit (most say it was clean, some say dirty) on a star player...alright, then he backs it up by fighting the teams tough guy, twice even. just how long is he supposed to "back it up" and be "honerable" or something?

is he just supposed to keep dropping the gloves every time he gets on the ice? that's bull IMO...if we expect these guys to "back it up" we need to expect the other team to acknowledge when they've done that and call it even or whatever

Actually it's not bull and it's one reason why guys like Gretzky didnt suffer the fate of todays stars and have 18 concussions. Because players KNEW that right, wrong or indifferent, they were gonna get haunted and hunted if they went after the star player.

Whether it's bull or not that's what you do to protect your stars. It's all about intimidation and you make sure that no one even thinks for a second that they're gonna get away with something. Why do you think you saw so many 300 and 400 pim players in the past. Because they knew there job was to make sure the other players werent even thinking about it, before they even thought about it. If they actually did do it, they'd never forget it.

Fletch 09-18-2004 08:18 AM

That's a valid point, Edge..
 
in the 80s...I think in the 90s and in the new millenium, the players have less respect for each other. Less respect for the Gretzkys and others, which may be a reason why the sport has failed to successfully market itself. People see things like Bertuzzi and McSorley and others and just think these guys are barbaric. The role of an enforcer is a necessity to some extent, but even with guys like Simon, Barnaby and others, a guy like Dunham was rountinely bowled over without or with retribution, but it continued on a nightly basis. Your Darcy Tuckers, Tyson Nashes and others just aren't afraid of getting the crap beat out of them and/or will not stand up for themselves and just skate away choosing not to fight. Respect's gone, and that's an issue.

True Blue 09-18-2004 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
Your Darcy Tuckers, Tyson Nashes and others just aren't afraid of getting the crap beat out of them and/or will not stand up for themselves and just skate away choosing not to fight. Respect's gone, and that's an issue.

True, but if the instigator rule was taken out, there would be no skating away. Nash is one of the better pests and DOES drop the gloves often enough, but skates away just as much. If there was no instigator rule, there is no escape. IF Nash was to cheap-shot a star player, EVERY time he stepped onto the ice, he would be jumped and be FORCED to either turtle or drop the gloves with other bigger players. Eventually, he would get tired by getting beat on by bigger players and would indeed stay away from the "stars" of other teams.
Players like Darcy Tucker and Matty Barnaby are different stories entirely......

Edge 09-18-2004 06:17 PM

I see the points from both TB and Fletch, and I think TB said what I was trying to get at.

I agree 100% that there is no respect, and I think part of that is because there is not enough fear. Can you imagine what Joey Kocur or Bob Probert would have done to a guy like Tucker? His career would have lasted 10 games before he was put into an intensive care unit.

Even amongst the heavyweights there is too much of this fake glove droping crap and other incidents which are insane.

Look at the refs, some of those guys take suicide dives into the middle of a scuffle to prevent a fight. So tension builds and builds and builds until it boils over in events that are gonna hurt this league.

NO ONE gets up and leaves during a fight and it has its purpose on the ice in this style of game.

I personally don't buy into the lack of respect idea in full. You look at those 1980's Oilers and people hated how little respect they had. The difference? Man did they back it up. They said "I'm not gonna show you respect and you can come after me and I'll still kick your butt". I mean a guy like Mark Messier was NASTY when he was younger, but he also knew he had to back it up as well.

But nowadays when guys like Simon and Laraque are getting 1 million {which goes back to salary which we dont get into again in this thread for the sanity of the other readers} they just don't want to do it on top of the fact that they are worried about getting suspended if they do.


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