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Lucius 11-22-2011 12:56 PM

The Power Play (Stats)
 
Seeing lots of arguments lately about the PP. A lot of people hate Plekanec on the point, a lot of people hate Darche ever seeing it and a lot of people demand Subban be on the top unit.

Figured I'd throw some numbers out to sort through some of the drama:

There are 12 guys on Montreal with more than 10 minutes of ice time on the powerplay, here they are and here are their points:
  • Plekanec - 90:03 (4:17 p/g) - 8 pts
  • Weber - 79:01 (3:45 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Desharnais - 75:45 (3:36 p/g) -3 pts
  • Pacioretty - 72:29 (3:27 p/g) - 3 pts
  • Subban - 65:47 (3:07 p/g) - 2 pts
  • Cole - 63:12 (3:00 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Gionta - 60:53 (2:53 p/g) -3 pts
  • Cammalleri - 48:36 (3:02 p/g) - 4 pts
  • Diaz - 45:02 (2:08 p/g) - 1 pts
  • Gomez - 33:55 (2:49 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Darche - 28:06 (1:20 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Kostitsyn - 18:00 (1:23 p/g) - 1 pts

So there you have it. Some facts to inform the debate.

Basic conclusions at a glance? No, Subban should not replace Weber on the PP. No, Plekanec should not be pulled off the point, he's far and away the most effective producer out there. Cole & Cammy deserve more time, Kostitsyn got inexplicably little.

And finally Gomez and Darche have no business anywhere near a PP. Ever. Period. End of story.

One point to make too: Powerplays need to use both a right and left handed shot on the point to have two effective one timer threats. That means Weber, Subban and Diaz are all up for the exact same spot, while Plekanec appears to be the only viable left handed shot on the point whatsoever. Replacing him means either a different forward (maybe Kostitsyn?) or someone like Gorges, Spacek or, god forbid, Hal Gill.

And for those that are inevitably going to ask: Eller has 4:01 total on the season (probably mostly accumulated in the last couple seconds of a PP) and no points.

SouthernHab 11-22-2011 04:49 PM

You need to find stats on how many times the Habs failed to keep the puck in the zone because they had Plekanec on the point. (Dont get me wrong, I am one of Pleks biggest fans.......I just think that he should not be put in a position that is limiting his point production on the PP).

Add up shorthanded goals that we allowed when Subban was sitting. Find stats on passes that were not tape to tape from the points when Subban was on the bench.

And finally, see if you can find some stats on creativity from the points without Subban. Cause our PP is stale and predictable and easily stopped.

Carry on with your Martin support of putting players in positions that do not maximize their ability and talent.

Lucius 11-22-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39812875)
You need to find stats on how many times the Habs failed to keep the puck in the zone because they had Plekanec on the point. (Dont get me wrong, I am one of Pleks biggest fans.......I just think that he should not be put in a position that is limiting his point production on the PP).

Add up shorthanded goals that we allowed when Subban was sitting. Find stats on passes that were not tape to tape from the points when Subban was on the bench.

And finally, see if you can find some stats on creativity from the points without Subban. Cause our PP is stale and predictable and easily stopped.

Carry on with your Martin support of putting players in positions that do not maximize their ability and talent.

OK, so your solution to the bad PP is to drop the top two players in scoring on the PP off the first unit (or in the case of Plekanec, I assume move him to forward) and replace them with who?

Your PP would be what? Plekanec/Cammy/Gionta with Subban/Gorges on D?

Give me a plausible configuration that includes a left handed shot on the point that is better than what the team has been doing.

ThaDevilGirl 11-22-2011 05:40 PM

To be fair Plekanec has been better at the point lately. He's learning.

Bud2790 11-22-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39812875)
You need to find stats on how many times the Habs failed to keep the puck in the zone because they had Plekanec on the point. (Dont get me wrong, I am one of Pleks biggest fans.......I just think that he should not be put in a position that is limiting his point production on the PP).

Add up shorthanded goals that we allowed when Subban was sitting. Find stats on passes that were not tape to tape from the points when Subban was on the bench.

And finally, see if you can find some stats on creativity from the points without Subban. Cause our PP is stale and predictable and easily stopped.

Carry on with your Martin support of putting players in positions that do not maximize their ability and talent.

Why is it, that everytime someone disagrees with you or vice versa, they are automatically Martin fanboys, Martin supporters?

Marchy79 11-22-2011 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius (Post 39814097)
OK, so your solution to the bad PP is to drop the top two players in scoring on the PP off the first unit (or in the case of Plekanec, I assume move him to forward) and replace them with who?

Your PP would be what? Plekanec/Cammy/Gionta with Subban/Gorges on D?

Give me a plausible configuration that includes a left handed shot on the point that is better than what the team has been doing.

I wouldnt mind giving Emelin and his shot get a chance. The guys got a hammer.

SouthernHab 11-22-2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud2790 (Post 39814801)
Why is it, that everytime someone disagrees with you or vice versa, they are automatically Martin fanboys, Martin supporters?


Hi Bud.

The man was expressing support for Martin's idiotic and never-ending experiment of Plekanec on the point.

Its not working. Yet he thinks that its a good idea and in agreement with Martin.

I did not call him a fanboy. You did.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius (Post 39814097)
OK, so your solution to the bad PP is to drop the top two players in scoring on the PP off the first unit (or in the case of Plekanec, I assume move him to forward) and replace them with who?

Your PP would be what? Plekanec/Cammy/Gionta with Subban/Gorges on D?

Give me a plausible configuration that includes a left handed shot on the point that is better than what the team has been doing.


Emelin instead of Pleks. Emelin is a left hand shot. Hell, St-Denis is a left hand shot.

Both have been playing defense their entire professional career and would be better at the point than Plekanec. St-Denis had 23 points last year for Hamilton. Emelin had 27 points. I think they both know a little bit about playing the point on a PP.

And you are right, Plekanec would go back to where he should have been all along........playing forward.

Protest the Hero 11-22-2011 08:21 PM

I understand that a lefty and righty can set up each other for point shots, but the winger on the wall(Cammy) could set up a one timer for a right-handed shot on the right side. It worked fine for them last season.

Their biggest problem from what I've seen is hitting the net.

JGRB 11-22-2011 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl (Post 39814689)
To be fair Plekanec has been better at the point lately. He's learning.

He is, we've also lost valuable points this season to his learning curve.

hockeyfan2k11 11-22-2011 08:54 PM

Lets throw numbers out the window for a sec.

You're telling me that watching the games...this powerplay is the best Martin can come up with? You're telling me, you can't see that something is wrong? The PP does not pass the eyeball test.

Pleks is far more dangerous down low. I hate our PP.

HabsCowboysOwn 11-22-2011 09:13 PM

On a positive note Markov is closer from a return everyday.. I'm pretty confident that he'll be the same stud that he was 2 years ago. But for some reason JM will probably prefer to play Nokelainen on the point. :sarcasm:

FlyingKostitsyn 11-22-2011 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGRB (Post 39825155)
He is, we've also lost valuable points this season to his learning curve.

And now that he's getting it he'll be replaced by Markov!

That experiment was a bit of a waste of time but thats one more thing Pleky can do now. Hopefully Price never gets injured or Martin will throw him in goal. :shakehead

As for our absense of left handed defensemen that can play on the PP... What about Emelin? When is Martin going to give him a shot?

ThaDevilGirl 11-22-2011 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGRB (Post 39825155)
He is, we've also lost valuable points this season to his learning curve.

At the same time he has become a valuable asset should he be needed at the point in the future.

SouthernHab 11-22-2011 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl (Post 39828213)
At the same time he has become a valuable asset should he be needed at the point in the future.

I believe you. Martin will be playing Pleks from here to eternity at the point, needed or not.;)

MasterDecoy 11-23-2011 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39823073)
Emelin instead of Pleks. Emelin is a left hand shot. Hell, St-Denis is a left hand shot.

Both have been playing defense their entire professional career and would be better at the point than Plekanec. St-Denis had 23 points last year for Hamilton. Emelin had 27 points. I think they both know a little bit about playing the point on a PP.

you kidding... st-denis can't qb a powerplay.

im no fan of plek on point but i will say he has gotten better. has far as not using emelin on the point, the difference is i will give martin the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe emelin is not ready to do so. besides, unless you attend practices, you can't say whether or not martin is trying him there. difference is you assume the worst, i assume the better. both are not facts.

don't forget the amount of space they have to play with in the KHL. judging by emelin's overall play (minus last game against boston) since he joined, i don't see him ready to do so, he'd get pressured and burned bergeron style and would end up coughing up more shorthanded goals than plekanec is at the moment...

what's wrong with giving him time to adjust?

MasterDecoy 11-23-2011 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab (Post 39833207)
I believe you. Martin will be playing Pleks from here to eternity at the point, needed or not.;)

markov will be taking his spot when he comes back.

i hope... :help:

canadianeh 11-23-2011 07:50 AM

I can't understand why there hasn't been a bigger deal made of Subban being dropped to the second wave of the PP.

I don't care who is out, he should there on the top unit. He's shown what he can do out there during the last half of last year.

Yet he's not getting minutes with the first wave, which has also resulted in giving up 4 SH goals.

Kriss E 11-23-2011 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadianeh (Post 39837939)
I can't understand why there hasn't been a bigger deal made of Subban being dropped to the second wave of the PP.

I don't care who is out, he should there on the top unit. He's shown what he can do out there during the last half of last year.

Yet he's not getting minutes with the first wave, which has also resulted in giving up 4 SH goals.

PK was bad there earlier this year. He also plays enough. Using him 2min there instead of 4min is okay. Weber has a nice shot and should be used therevto give extra rest to PK. No problem with that.

Dirty Danglez 11-23-2011 09:40 AM

I agree it should be Subban and Weber on the first unit, with pleks playing down low. This left handed right handed blue line is BS. Look at last year's PP with Wiz and Subban.

WeThreeKings 11-23-2011 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius (Post 39802945)
Seeing lots of arguments lately about the PP. A lot of people hate Plekanec on the point, a lot of people hate Darche ever seeing it and a lot of people demand Subban be on the top unit.

Figured I'd throw some numbers out to sort through some of the drama:

There are 12 guys on Montreal with more than 10 minutes of ice time on the powerplay, here they are and here are their points:
  • Plekanec - 90:03 (4:17 p/g) - 8 pts
  • Weber - 79:01 (3:45 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Desharnais - 75:45 (3:36 p/g) -3 pts
  • Pacioretty - 72:29 (3:27 p/g) - 3 pts
  • Subban - 65:47 (3:07 p/g) - 2 pts
  • Cole - 63:12 (3:00 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Gionta - 60:53 (2:53 p/g) -3 pts
  • Cammalleri - 48:36 (3:02 p/g) - 4 pts
  • Diaz - 45:02 (2:08 p/g) - 1 pts
  • Gomez - 33:55 (2:49 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Darche - 28:06 (1:20 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Kostitsyn - 18:00 (1:23 p/g) - 1 pts

So there you have it. Some facts to inform the debate.

Basic conclusions at a glance? No, Subban should not replace Weber on the PP. No, Plekanec should not be pulled off the point, he's far and away the most effective producer out there. Cole & Cammy deserve more time, Kostitsyn got inexplicably little.

And finally Gomez and Darche have no business anywhere near a PP. Ever. Period. End of story.

One point to make too: Powerplays need to use both a right and left handed shot on the point to have two effective one timer threats. That means Weber, Subban and Diaz are all up for the exact same spot, while Plekanec appears to be the only viable left handed shot on the point whatsoever. Replacing him means either a different forward (maybe Kostitsyn?) or someone like Gorges, Spacek or, god forbid, Hal Gill.

And for those that are inevitably going to ask: Eller has 4:01 total on the season (probably mostly accumulated in the last couple seconds of a PP) and no points.

:help:

On the bright side. If I had said before the season that after 20 games Gomez would be tied with Crosby in points you'd have thought he was having an amazing year.

Jigger77 11-23-2011 10:12 AM

Good post.

Couple thoughts. Plecky is getting better and better on the point. The guy is too good/versatile a player to not eventually learn to make it work until we get bodies back.

Also, Gomez on the powerplay is something you just have to do to an extent. I'm sure it bothers Martin but if the Habs are going to be successful this year they NEED to get Gomez going and you have to give him some pp time to get him going. That's basic coaching. He is your number 2 center and obviously needs to get some sort of confidence back in his game. The PP is often where coaches will give guys like that minutes to get them going again.

lamp9post 11-23-2011 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGRB (Post 39825155)
He is, we've also lost valuable points this season to his learning curve.

If anything, that's on Gauthier for signing markov knowing he wouldn't be available at the beginning of the season.

beowulf 11-23-2011 10:55 AM

The point will become mute in the next week or two once Markov is back anyways.

neofury* 11-23-2011 11:55 AM

I've said it all along. It's going to be Markov-Weber who gain peoples affection when Markov comes back as our PP duo. Not Markov-Subban.

Subban will still be a stud on the 2nd pairing anyways and if anything the less time he spends on the PP and PK the more time at even strength he can help us outchance the opponent and keep the puck out of our net. For all the high profile mistakes he's made he's made about 100 safe plays that have helped our team.

I'm not surprised by these stats in the least. I do find it funny that Erik Cole the "PP cancer" :laugh: is doing well on the PP though. I know nobody necessarily called him one but at the start of the season everyone said he wasn't a PP guy at all. Well, maybe he just had a lot of depth ahead of him in Carolina. It's possible they just had some really good PP forwards not necessarily that Cole sucked on the PP.

Jmac1160* 11-23-2011 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=Lucius;39802945]Seeing lots of arguments lately about the PP. A lot of people hate Plekanec on the point, a lot of people hate Darche ever seeing it and a lot of people demand Subban be on the top unit.

Figured I'd throw some numbers out to sort through some of the drama:

There are 12 guys on Montreal with more than 10 minutes of ice time on the powerplay, here they are and here are their points:
  • Plekanec - 90:03 (4:17 p/g) - 8 pts
  • Weber - 79:01 (3:45 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Desharnais - 75:45 (3:36 p/g) -3 pts
  • Pacioretty - 72:29 (3:27 p/g) - 3 pts
  • Subban - 65:47 (3:07 p/g) - 2 pts
  • Cole - 63:12 (3:00 p/g) - 5 pts
  • Gionta - 60:53 (2:53 p/g) -3 pts
  • Cammalleri - 48:36 (3:02 p/g) - 4 pts
  • Diaz - 45:02 (2:08 p/g) - 1 pts
  • Gomez - 33:55 (2:49 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Darche - 28:06 (1:20 p/g) - 0 pts
  • Kostitsyn - 18:00 (1:23 p/g) - 1 pts



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