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-   -   What's McDonagh's potential? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1036759)

SnowblindNYR 11-23-2011 12:22 AM

What's McDonagh's potential?
 
Can he end up better than Staal? What is his potential when it comes to points?

Inferno 11-23-2011 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 39833769)
Can he end up better than Staal? What is his potential when it comes to points?

Bobby Orr+++ :naughty:

Beacon 11-23-2011 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 39833769)
Can he end up better than Staal? What is his potential when it comes to points?


He can, but unlikely. More likely would be that he'll be superior offensively, but not as big, so somewhat less efficient, though still excellent, defensively.

Swept In Seven 11-23-2011 01:39 AM

I see a lot of Neidermayer in him. He reminds me of Neids or Chelios, and he has the skill to be as good as them. It is all about his progress of as now, he is already a very good 2nd liner but the progression he makes will show whether he can make that jump to being elite. I believe he can do it

Emptyvoid 11-23-2011 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJBergy86 (Post 39835003)
I see a lot of Neidermayer in him. He reminds me of Neids or Chelios, and he has the skill to be as good as them. It is all about his progress of as now, he is already a very good 2nd liner but the progression he makes will show whether he can make that jump to being elite. I believe he can do it

Those are some rather lofty expectations. You're basically saying McD has HOF caliber talent. I think McD can be a solid top pairing defenseman but HOF he will not be.

Calad 11-23-2011 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan (Post 39835173)
Those are some rather lofty expectations. You're basically saying McD has HOF caliber talent. I think McD can be a solid top pairing defenseman but HOF he will not be.

I think hes comparing it more to the mold of the player than he is the level of talent

Ola 11-23-2011 04:16 AM

Right now, McD's offensive register is kind of limited. Making top notch puck-distrubution plays is just not in his repetoair.

With D's however, its to a very big extent about being able to make the same plays time after time after tim. I love the poise McD is showing.

But at the same time our D's are supposed to make that long hard pass up ice for just a tip in so often, that they aren't really developing much of a passing game. Looking at kids like Enström who got a huge role in Atlanta, at Letang, and heck even Goligoski during his stint in Pittsburg, you got 3 D's who were put in a role where they were asked to constantly make plays with the puck, and they have taken that responsibilty and run with it and turned into elite D's. Its hard for D's who are just asked to shoot the puck up ice to develop that kind of poise.

So, he is coming along really well. Don't get me wrong. But I am not sold if he will be able to take that last step and become like a nr 1 or something.

pld459666 11-23-2011 05:41 AM

With less than a full season under his belt, and the progess he has ALREADY made on his overall game from College to the Pros, I see him being a more legit #1 defenceman than Staal.

He's got a great frame for a defenceman, he's actually heavier than Staal at 216 (208 for Staal). He's not going to be that physical guy that Staal should be, but he's a much better skater, passer and he has a better shot than Staal.

I like Staal as the perfect #2 defenceman, but I think that by seasons end, McDonagh is going to be this teams #1 defenceman and in my opinion that's a good thing as it will allow Girardi the ability to play with and stabilize Del Zotto's game.

In terms of overall talent and ability, McDonagh has the head for the game and the set of tools to be our best defenceman and I expect him to emerge as that over the course of this season.

gonna be nice to watch him emerge as player.

jacko23 11-23-2011 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 39836173)

its to a very big extent about being able to make the same plays time after time after tim.

i cannot stand waiting for Tim so i can make my play.... sheesh....

i think McD's potential is extremely high. will he reach all of it? who knows. to make a long story short, i would say he will fall somewhere in between staal and girardi as far as overall ability goes, but i even think thats a bit conservative considering how much this kid has grown already and doesnt even have any real playoff experience.

NHRangerfan 11-23-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 39833769)
Can he end up better than Staal? What is his potential when it comes to points?

I think he has better offensive instincts than Staal...will be interesting to see how he progresses over the next year or two.

darko 11-23-2011 07:31 AM

30-35 point 2-way defensman. Notch below Staal defensively while bringing more offensively.

pld459666 11-23-2011 07:51 AM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darko (Post 39837663)
30-35 point 2-way defensman. Notch below Staal defensively while bringing more offensively.

small tweak, but I think he can push that 40+ point plateau annually.

When Torts gains more confidence in his ability to play the point, you are going to see more points from him.

I believe he can be more trusted to make the smarter pass than MDZ at the point and would be more apt to shoot than MDZ.

MDA will learn, but right now, he telegraphs alot of his passes and that's not a good thing.

Revelation 11-23-2011 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 39836173)
Right now, McD's offensive register is kind of limited. Making top notch puck-distrubution plays is just not in his repetoair.

With D's however, its to a very big extent about being able to make the same plays time after time after tim. I love the poise McD is showing.

But at the same time our D's are supposed to make that long hard pass up ice for just a tip in so often, that they aren't really developing much of a passing game. Looking at kids like Enström who got a huge role in Atlanta, at Letang, and heck even Goligoski during his stint in Pittsburg, you got 3 D's who were put in a role where they were asked to constantly make plays with the puck, and they have taken that responsibilty and run with it and turned into elite D's. Its hard for D's who are just asked to shoot the puck up ice to develop that kind of poise.

So, he is coming along really well. Don't get me wrong. But I am not sold if he will be able to take that last step and become like a nr 1 or something.

I don't know how how you can say that McD's potential is limited offensively. The kid has only just over a year of pro experience under his belt, including only around 60 NHL games. In college, he was relied upon to be the more defensively responsible half of any pair he was put on. Now that he's paired with a rock like Girardi and gaining confidence in his game, I think his offensive ability is just starting to show. I think his offensive upside is actually quite high. He has the ability to become a true #1 IMO. Whether he will stall or regress in his development is another question entirely, but I would say he has the potential to be an absolute 2-way stud.

Beacon 11-23-2011 10:07 AM

People forget by now, but when McDonagh was drafted, he was seen as an offensively gifted defenseman. A recently as two years ago people were not sure which route he will take: offensive or defensive.

He did the smart thing and worked on his defense first which guaranteed him a spot in the NHL, but lets face it there is a lot of untapped offensive potential there. If he is around 20-25 points, then he is a #3. If he ends up being a ~30 point defenseman, then he is a #2. If he becomes a consistent ~40 point defenseman, then he is a #1.

Emptyvoid 11-23-2011 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calad (Post 39835299)
I think hes comparing it more to the mold of the player than he is the level of talent

Well when he said he had the skill to be as good as them.... But I agree with similar mold

ColonialsHockey10 11-23-2011 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 39841557)
People forget by now, but when McDonagh was drafted, he was seen as an offensively gifted defenseman. A recently as two years ago people were not sure which route he will take: offensive or defensive.

He did the smart thing and worked on his defense first which guaranteed him a spot in the NHL, but lets face it there is a lot of untapped offensive potential there. If he is around 20-25 points, then he is a #3. If he ends up being a ~30 point defenseman, then he is a #2. If he becomes a consistent ~40 point defenseman, then he is a #1.

I never understood how increasing offense is the only thing that can make him a #1. If he can play 26 minutes/night, while being a stud defensively and chipping in a decent amount of points he's a #1 defenseman. That's just as effective as a defenseman who puts up 50 points and is slightly above average defensively.

Marc Staal before his injury was a #1 defenseman.

Cliffy1814 11-23-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 39841557)
People forget by now, but when McDonagh was drafted, he was seen as an offensively gifted defenseman. A recently as two years ago people were not sure which route he will take: offensive or defensive.

He did the smart thing and worked on his defense first which guaranteed him a spot in the NHL, but lets face it there is a lot of untapped offensive potential there. If he is around 20-25 points, then he is a #3. If he ends up being a ~30 point defenseman, then he is a #2. If he becomes a consistent ~40 point defenseman, then he is a #1.

I like this thread because I love Staal (actually wear his jersey), but constantly tell people that to be a true # 1 defensemen you need to be great defensively AND contribute offensively.

I think Mcdonough shows more ability and willingness to jump in offensively at this age than staal did. I think that Mcdonough can push that 40-50 pt plateau and be a No. 1 while I think staal is an excellent #2. He will be a shut down defensemet who provides 20-25 points a year.

I think in a couple years McDonough will be regarded as the best defensemen on our roster.

Punxrocknyc19* 11-23-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJBergy86 (Post 39835003)
I see a lot of Neidermayer in him. He reminds me of Neids or Chelios, and he has the skill to be as good as them. It is all about his progress of as now, he is already a very good 2nd liner but the progression he makes will show whether he can make that jump to being elite. I believe he can do it

Chelios??? I don't think McDonagh will be as gritty or much of a fighter like Chelios although if he plays in the NHL till his mid 40s then I wouldn't mind as long as he isn't broken down. I think of a former Stars Sydor when I see McDonagh

pld459666 11-23-2011 12:01 PM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 (Post 39844061)
I never understood how increasing offense is the only thing that can make him a #1. If he can play 26 minutes/night, while being a stud defensively and chipping in a decent amount of points he's a #1 defenseman. That's just as effective as a defenseman who puts up 50 points and is slightly above average defensively.

Marc Staal before his injury was a #1 defenseman.

Staal was a No 1 in NY by default in that we had no one that could play as well defensively and post points from the back end.

McDonagh is showing that he can play AS WELL defensively AND has the ability to be an offensive catalyst.

With his speed, hands, vision and shot, McD can be everything that Staal is today and more.

Staal's tools lend themselves to be a perfect partner for someone like McDonagh.

It's not JUST the points that help get you to be a #1 guy, it's packaging everything that you expect from your #1 guy and that includes more than 25+ points a year.

This is not meant as a knock on Staal. In fact I think this is a good thing that he will be allowed to play a game more suited to his skill set. If in the process he can still get his 25+ points then the Rangers are surely going to benefit from that pairing.

McDonagh - Staal
Girardi - Del Zotto
Sauer - Erixon

Sweet

Bird Law 11-23-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 39834665)
He can, but unlikely. More likely would be that he'll be superior offensively, but not as big, so somewhat less efficient, though still excellent, defensively.

"Big" does not matter. McDonagh is strong as an ox. He's probably stronger than Staal, overall. Dude has freaky strength and speed.

Bird Law 11-23-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 39841557)
People forget by now, but when McDonagh was drafted, he was seen as an offensively gifted defenseman. A recently as two years ago people were not sure which route he will take: offensive or defensive.

He did the smart thing and worked on his defense first which guaranteed him a spot in the NHL, but lets face it there is a lot of untapped offensive potential there. If he is around 20-25 points, then he is a #3. If he ends up being a ~30 point defenseman, then he is a #2. If he becomes a consistent ~40 point defenseman, then he is a #1.

Err, no. That's not how you analyze a d-man at all.

If he can put up around 30-35 points and play great defensively, he'll be a #1 d-man. His speed and strength alone are already elite, which you need to be a top pairing guy. You don't analyze with points completely.

ColonialsHockey10 11-23-2011 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 39845591)
Staal was a No 1 in NY by default in that we had no one that could play as well defensively and post points from the back end.

McDonagh is showing that he can play AS WELL defensively AND has the ability to be an offensive catalyst.

With his speed, hands, vision and shot, McD can be everything that Staal is today and more.

Staal's tools lend themselves to be a perfect partner for someone like McDonagh.

It's not JUST the points that help get you to be a #1 guy, it's packaging everything that you expect from your #1 guy and that includes more than 25+ points a year.

This is not meant as a knock on Staal. In fact I think this is a good thing that he will be allowed to play a game more suited to his skill set. If in the process he can still get his 25+ points then the Rangers are surely going to benefit from that pairing.

McDonagh - Staal
Girardi - Del Zotto
Sauer - Erixon

Sweet

No, Staal was a #1 defenseman, period. :)

McDonagh has been great defensively, but how quickly we forget about how dominant Staal is defensively.

Staal put up 30 points in his 4th season on a team that was changing it's identity every 8 months. When he gets power play time and this team becomes what we hope, 40 points is a very likely outcome. Dan Girardi is on pace for less then 40 points, yet we would all agree if the season ended today he would likely place top 5 for Norris voting.

Staal at the end of last season was playing 28 minute/game and completely shutting down Crosby, Ovechkin and many more great players. As much as I love McDonagh, and MDZ/McIlrath/Erixon/Sauer/Girardi, barring a dip in play from his injury, Staal is, and always will be, the guy.

ColonialsHockey10 11-23-2011 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan. (Post 39847133)
Err, no. That's not how you analyze a d-man at all.

If he can put up around 30-35 points and play great defensively, he'll be a #1 d-man. His speed and strength alone are already elite, which you need to be a top pairing guy. You don't analyze with points completely.

Exactly, Marc Staal got 30 points, and played better then great defensively. He is every bit a #1 defenseman.

eco's bones 11-23-2011 02:00 PM

Interesting thread. I think McDonagh can at least be as good as Staal. There's a possibility that he can be better. He doesn't have the same reach but is a better skater and at least as strong. Improving his offensive game would be the key. Staal is not really a playmaking type of d-man. Ryan is a more comfortable player with the puck IMO but I'm not sure the offensive or creative instincts are there to which he might be the better overall defenseman. Time will tell.

pld459666 11-23-2011 02:37 PM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 (Post 39849995)
No, Staal was a #1 defenseman, period. :)

McDonagh has been great defensively, but how quickly we forget about how dominant Staal is defensively.

Staal put up 30 points in his 4th season on a team that was changing it's identity every 8 months. When he gets power play time and this team becomes what we hope, 40 points is a very likely outcome. Dan Girardi is on pace for less then 40 points, yet we would all agree if the season ended today he would likely place top 5 for Norris voting.

Staal at the end of last season was playing 28 minute/game and completely shutting down Crosby, Ovechkin and many more great players. As much as I love McDonagh, and MDZ/McIlrath/Erixon/Sauer/Girardi, barring a dip in play from his injury, Staal is, and always will be, the guy.

McDonagh is going to be as good defensively and will be better offensively.

Which means he will be the better defenceman and thus our true #1.

When you have a guy that can do what Staal does and more, that guy is your #1.

by the end of this season, not next year or the year after. McDonagh is going to be talked about, league wide, as our best defenceman.

Which is a great thing.


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