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-   -   How much of the blame is/should be placed on player agents? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=105364)

Oilers Chick 09-23-2004 04:12 PM

How much of the blame is/should be placed on player agents?
 
I'd venture to guess that this has been brought up already, so if it has my apologies.

What is everyone's take on where the player agents fit into the whole CBA mess? Are they a part of the problem or solution?

Your thoughts

Benji Frank 09-23-2004 05:16 PM

None.

The player agents were just doing their job ... and they did it so well, the owners hooped themselves!!!

kurt 09-23-2004 09:34 PM

Who's to blame?
 
I would have to agree. The reason why this mess has happened is because some teams have deep pockets, and have been offering players vast sums of money. Other, smaller market clubs, have felt pressure to either follow suit, or not be competitive.

me2 09-23-2004 09:39 PM

If a player wanted to sign and his agent/NHLPA wanted to hold out for more then they deserve some blame. As it standsWe will never know who was holding out for more, the player, the agent or the NHLPA.

thinkwild 09-23-2004 09:41 PM

Agents use the leverage the system provides. Perhaps they have a little too much leverage at times.

Schlep Rock 09-23-2004 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkwild
Agents use the leverage the system provides. Perhaps they have a little too much leverage at times.

But as is clearly stated in this thread... the leverage is not created by the agent, it's created by the system... the agent's job is to utilize/exploit that leverage.

It's like a lawyer going into court to defend a murderer... whether he's guilty or not it's his job to try and get him off, even on a technicality.

kurt 09-23-2004 10:08 PM

And it's equally true that the club is using leverage to get a lower price on a player. Perhaps they're both at fault.

However, the fact that the players have the leverage, to begin with, is because of the lack of solidarity among the clubs in the league. Some clubs would determine that a player is worth more than their current franchise is willing to pay, and lured them in with a better offer. This factor is the source of any leverage in the system.

Jack Canuck 09-23-2004 10:30 PM

Just doing their jobs. Maybe too well, but just doing their jobs.

garry1221 09-23-2004 11:38 PM

the agents knwo they get a certain % of each contract, so of course they're going to use their leverage to push for the biggest contract possible, even if said player isn't worth what the contract is worth... so the agents can line their own pockets, agents don't give a rats behind whether one of their player's contracts is too high or not, so long as they get their % they dont' give a damn, one thing i'd change would be adding a certain $ figure that agents would get... NOT a certain percentage, with a set monetary figure in place agents would have no reason to press for the highest contract imaginable unless said player told them to push for it

kurt 09-23-2004 11:48 PM

Agent pay mechanism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garry1221
the agents knwo they get a certain % of each contract, so of course they're going to use their leverage to push for the biggest contract possible, even if said player isn't worth what the contract is worth... so the agents can line their own pockets, agents don't give a rats behind whether one of their player's contracts is too high or not, so long as they get their % they dont' give a damn, one thing i'd change would be adding a certain $ figure that agents would get... NOT a certain percentage, with a set monetary figure in place agents would have no reason to press for the highest contract imaginable unless said player told them to push for it

First off, I'm pretty sure the CBA has absolutely no jurisdiction over how agents are paid. Agents are not part of the bargaining group.

The fact is, this mechanism serves the agent, as well as the player. The player wants to earn their value, and they provide an incentive for their agent to seek out that objective.

Schlep Rock 09-24-2004 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garry1221
the agents knwo they get a certain % of each contract, so of course they're going to use their leverage to push for the biggest contract possible, even if said player isn't worth what the contract is worth... so the agents can line their own pockets, agents don't give a rats behind whether one of their player's contracts is too high or not, so long as they get their % they dont' give a damn, one thing i'd change would be adding a certain $ figure that agents would get... NOT a certain percentage, with a set monetary figure in place agents would have no reason to press for the highest contract imaginable unless said player told them to push for it

Since every agent always makes his guy take the highest offer he has so the agent can make more $$$ right?

Agents get too much of a bad rep when all they're really doing is playing the system.

Schlep Rock 09-24-2004 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurt
First off, I'm pretty sure the CBA has absolutely no jurisdiction over how agents are paid. Agents are not part of the bargaining group.

The fact is, this mechanism serves the agent, as well as the player. The player wants to earn their value, and they provide an incentive for their agent to seek out that objective.

There is nothing in the CBA about agents... the NHLPA has jurisdiction over the agents and all they really do there is require registration.

Legolas 09-24-2004 10:35 AM

I'd say the only real problem agents have (and by agents I mean a very small select group of agents) is ethically, not legally or technically. I don't see the agents as doing anything more than their jobs, and doing an excellent job of exploiting the old CBA with respect to entry level salaries and bonuses and arbitration. The problem I have with agents is their role in player holdouts. Holdouts are absolutely ridiculous and any agent who either advises his client consider that as an option or supports such a decision is wrong, in my opinion. A contract is a contract, except in sports apparently.

Roughneck 09-24-2004 11:21 AM

Agents do their job. Their job is to get their client the best deal possible, it is what they are paid to do. Its the owners/GMs that are supposed to get the best deal possible for the franchise, they have been far too lightfisted on their part. Then again, players are given alot more freedom than GMs are when it comes to contract negotiations.

West 09-24-2004 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
What is everyone's take on where the player agents fit into the whole CBA mess? Are they a part of the problem or solution?

I agree they are just doing there job but just for fun... here's a quote from an anonymous agent that I found really irritating "The owners will never break the players union. I've got clients who make millions of dollars a year and happy living like they only make 1 or 2 hundred thosand a year."

But realistically they are no more to blame than a good coach or scout is.

Chili 09-24-2004 11:57 AM

The problem I see with some agents is their goal in negotiating contracts which always seems to be maximize $ value which may or may not be what is best for their client. If you look at Marc Andre Fleury's contract it is very similiar to Rick DiPietro's deal from a few years back. DiPietro spent very little time in the NHL his first three years because of the ridiculous bonus clauses for meeting marginal targets (i.e. games played). I remember that Dipietro even offered to forego some of the bonuses if it would get him to the NHL but teams can't do that. I doubt Fleury will spend much time in the NHL until his next contract because of the deal his agent negotiated.

The holdout strategy often leads to problems. The players miss camp and often have poor years when they return (Marian Gaborik and Evgeny Nabokov are recent examples). Many holdouts end up being dealt as well and I wonder if in some cases these players would have accepted less to stay with the same team? I do respect an agent like Don Meehan though, who does consider what is in the player's best interest.

Schlep Rock 09-24-2004 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili
The problem I see with some agents is their goal in negotiating contracts which always seems to be maximize $ value which may or may not be what is best for their client. If you look at Marc Andre Fleury's contract it is very similiar to Rick DiPietro's deal from a few years back. DiPietro spent very little time in the NHL his first three years because of the ridiculous bonus clauses for meeting marginal targets (i.e. games played). I remember that Dipietro even offered to forego some of the bonuses if it would get him to the NHL but teams can't do that. I doubt Fleury will spend much time in the NHL until his next contract because of the deal his agent negotiated.

You've got to be kidding me regarding Fleury. If Fleury's agent negotiated anything less then Dipietro, he would've been raked over the coals by other agents and laughed at by NHL general managers. It's not the agents fault if a team is too cheap to follow through on bonuses they agreed to.

HckyFght* 09-25-2004 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
I'd venture to guess that this has been brought up already, so if it has my apologies.

What is everyone's take on where the player agents fit into the whole CBA mess? Are they a part of the problem or solution?

Your thoughts

I have always wondered, or, I should say, been suspicious of the role agents, or agencies have to play in stating and defending and shaping union policy. My guess is that there must be certain rules governing their overt participation, because if they have any official power, one could then argue it isn't truly a labor union. Still, I would be fascinated to learn not only the mechanations of agents/agencies' relationship to sports unions, and the ethics involved, as well as whether or not this is something to be investigated.
-HckyFght!

Chili 09-26-2004 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlep Rock
If Fleury's agent negotiated anything less then Dipietro, he would've been raked over the coals by other agents and laughed at by NHL general managers.

It's not about what was best for Fleury's agent it's what is best for him. And something should have been learned from DiPietro's contract but it wasn't.

I don't think you'll make a very good reputation by doing the wrong things for your client.

Schlep Rock 09-27-2004 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili
It's not about what was best for Fleury's agent it's what is best for him. And something should have been learned from DiPietro's contract but it wasn't.

I don't think you'll make a very good reputation by doing the wrong things for your client.


I'm not talking about what's best for him... if another agent called Fleury and said Dipietro got a better deal for you... guess what? Fleury would be PISSED.

Fact is if Fleury proves worthy enough the Pens won't send him packing to avoid bonuses like they did this year (and FYI all the bonuses, etc. are considered pretty standard for top-10 picks and it's called "the Joe Thronton model"... the only 2 picks since Thornton NOT to get that would be Staal and Horton).

Chili 09-27-2004 10:11 AM

The only contract that I'd compare with Fleury's is DiPietro's. (Thornton and the others had completely different bonus categories). Did Lehtonen get a similiar contract? He hasn't spent much time in the NHL with the Thrashers so maybe he is also effected. It seems pointless to have clauses in your contract which are strong deterents to you're playing in the NHL. I don't consider it cheap but prudent business to not want to pay a teenager $5 million a year for mediocre play. Even the NHLPA is ready to concede these model bonus contracts. My point was that the best deal is not necessarily the greediest one. If you're arguing with me then you must feel that greed should prevail.

H/H 09-27-2004 03:24 PM

The agents took the system Bettman and the owners inserted, piunced on it's weaknesses and exploited. It's their job. They will probably do the same to the next dumb system Bettman thinks will "save the league".


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