HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   The Business of Hockey (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=124)
-   -   A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=105405)

DownFromNJ 09-23-2004 08:27 PM

A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves
 
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.


Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow, you should both be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of doing five media interviews a day, you should be negociating. Players, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of acting for the good of the sport, you just demand more money. You admit your overpayed but still refuse to take a significant paycut. When Jeremey Roenick is the sole voice of reason among players, something is wrong. Owners, you should be ashamed of yourselves, a few in particular. You couldn't restrain yourselves from overpaying players.

But most of all, I'm ashamed of my fellow hockey fans. I've talked with people who wanted a lockout. I've read here fans hoping for teams to contract. I've talked with my relatives north of the border hoping for the NHL to fold and create an all-Canadian league. But most of all, you should be ashamed for polarizing yourselves. Most everyone major hockey fan affiliates themself with either "The Owners" or "The NHLPA".

Well you know what? I'm a hockey fan. I'm not a fan of the owners or a fan of the NHLPA. I just want the NHL to start as soon as possible. Shame on you all for perpetuating this lockout.

kurt 09-23-2004 09:28 PM

?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.


Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow, you should both be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of doing five media interviews a day, you should be negociating. Players, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of acting for the good of the sport, you just demand more money. You admit your overpayed but still refuse to take a significant paycut. When Jeremey Roenick is the sole voice of reason among players, something is wrong. Owners, you should be ashamed of yourselves, a few in particular. You couldn't restrain yourselves from overpaying players.

But most of all, I'm ashamed of my fellow hockey fans. I've talked with people who wanted a lockout. I've read here fans hoping for teams to contract. I've talked with my relatives north of the border hoping for the NHL to fold and create an all-Canadian league. But most of all, you should be ashamed for polarizing yourselves. Most everyone major hockey fan affiliates themself with either "The Owners" or "The NHLPA".

Well you know what? I'm a hockey fan. I'm not a fan of the owners or a fan of the NHLPA. I just want the NHL to start as soon as possible. Shame on you all for perpetuating this lockout.

Hey buddy, we're all hockey fans here. Personally, I'm not a fan of the NHL or the NHLPA. I just really, REALLY, don't want to see the NHL strongarm their way to an inequitable system. I think the players deserve their cut. They're the guys that provide us with the entertainment after all.

I really hope hockey starts soon though, I miss the game just as much as you do.

I in the Eye 09-23-2004 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.


Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow, you should both be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of doing five media interviews a day, you should be negociating. Players, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of acting for the good of the sport, you just demand more money. You admit your overpayed but still refuse to take a significant paycut. When Jeremey Roenick is the sole voice of reason among players, something is wrong. Owners, you should be ashamed of yourselves, a few in particular. You couldn't restrain yourselves from overpaying players.

But most of all, I'm ashamed of my fellow hockey fans. I've talked with people who wanted a lockout. I've read here fans hoping for teams to contract. I've talked with my relatives north of the border hoping for the NHL to fold and create an all-Canadian league. But most of all, you should be ashamed for polarizing yourselves. Most everyone major hockey fan affiliates themself with either "The Owners" or "The NHLPA".

Well you know what? I'm a hockey fan. I'm not a fan of the owners or a fan of the NHLPA. I just want the NHL to start as soon as possible. Shame on you all for perpetuating this lockout.

You just might be, the ultimate hockey fan...

cws 09-24-2004 12:40 PM

That's the best writing out of frustration that I've seen in quite a while. And I thought it deserved a bump, in case it was missed by some earlier.

Taranis_24 09-24-2004 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurt
Hey buddy, we're all hockey fans here. Personally, I'm not a fan of the NHL or the NHLPA. I just really, REALLY, don't want to see the NHL strongarm their way to an inequitable system. I think the players deserve their cut. They're the guys that provide us with the entertainment after all.

I really hope hockey starts soon though, I miss the game just as much as you do.

Kurt,

And who pays the rent on the building so there is a place for the players to play? Who pays the people to sell the tickets and market the game? Who pays the guys and gals to provide you refreshments to enjoy the game? Please it takes both of them for you to be able to see the game played at the NHL level. I'm not for or against a Cap, but I do feel the owners should be at least making as much as the average NHL salary profit. Why is ok for players to make 1.8M but for owners to lose in excess of 10-20M a year? With the players proposal (even the NHLPA agreed) some teams would still lose money. The fact is a 5% rollback does nothing when the average player received a 16% raise this year, the salaries still went up. All revenue sharing and luxury taxes do is take money away from one owner and give to other owners not really a compensation made by players. 60$M in rookie salary savings do nothing split between the making and losing money teams works out to a whopping $2M annual how does that help teams losing in excess of $10M. Extreme situations need extreme measures to be resolved, a lockout is extreme but most likely required. Now if you want to get rid of the arbitration process and gauranteed contracts then lets talk. I don't believe the owners are trying to strong arm anyone. For all 30 teams to survive and extreme change is needed the players proposal barely scratches the surface.

Toonces 09-24-2004 01:37 PM

Hell, I'm pissed.

As far as I'm concerned, lock them all in a room together, and don't let them come out until this thing is setteled.

I want Hockey...

Legolas 09-24-2004 01:59 PM

I'm quite frustrated as well, although I can see the points made by both sides. What bothers me the most is how formal and structured the negotiations (or lack thereof) have been so far. No further meetings are scheduled. One side is waiting for the other to start the negotiations going again. That's ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason not to be meeting on a constant basis and negotiating all the time. "We're not even talking the same language", "We have no negotiating partner". All of that rhetoric is useless. Even if the negotiation sessions are completely unproductive, they are still aeons ahead of being in a lockout and not speaking whatsoever. There's dozens of issues that form part of a CBA that can be discussed besides just a salary cap/luxury tax and they should be discussed right now. "We'll get to that after we deal with the cap". That kind of attitude is completely unacceptable.

donelikedinner 09-24-2004 02:06 PM

:cry:
Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.


Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow, you should both be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of doing five media interviews a day, you should be negociating. Players, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of acting for the good of the sport, you just demand more money. You admit your overpayed but still refuse to take a significant paycut. When Jeremey Roenick is the sole voice of reason among players, something is wrong. Owners, you should be ashamed of yourselves, a few in particular. You couldn't restrain yourselves from overpaying players.

But most of all, I'm ashamed of my fellow hockey fans. I've talked with people who wanted a lockout. I've read here fans hoping for teams to contract. I've talked with my relatives north of the border hoping for the NHL to fold and create an all-Canadian league. But most of all, you should be ashamed for polarizing yourselves. Most everyone major hockey fan affiliates themself with either "The Owners" or "The NHLPA".

Well you know what? I'm a hockey fan. I'm not a fan of the owners or a fan of the NHLPA. I just want the NHL to start as soon as possible. Shame on you all for perpetuating this lockout.


markov` 09-24-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces
As far as I'm concerned, lock them all in a room together, and don't let them come out until this thing is setteled.

You know what... this could be a really good solution. :)

markov` 09-24-2004 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.
.

No, my friend, I am totally with you. I just quoted the first part of the message but it's one of the best post I've read in a long time. I am with you on everything you said. I just want hockey.

chriss_co 09-25-2004 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
I'm sick of this CBA BS. I'm sick of egos, avarice, and apathy. I feel like the last sane hockey fan alive.


Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow, you should both be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of doing five media interviews a day, you should be negociating. Players, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of acting for the good of the sport, you just demand more money. You admit your overpayed but still refuse to take a significant paycut. When Jeremey Roenick is the sole voice of reason among players, something is wrong. Owners, you should be ashamed of yourselves, a few in particular. You couldn't restrain yourselves from overpaying players.

But most of all, I'm ashamed of my fellow hockey fans. I've talked with people who wanted a lockout. I've read here fans hoping for teams to contract. I've talked with my relatives north of the border hoping for the NHL to fold and create an all-Canadian league. But most of all, you should be ashamed for polarizing yourselves. Most everyone major hockey fan affiliates themself with either "The Owners" or "The NHLPA".

Well you know what? I'm a hockey fan. I'm not a fan of the owners or a fan of the NHLPA. I just want the NHL to start as soon as possible. Shame on you all for perpetuating this lockout.


I want hockey as much as you do. The one biggest thing I want though, is a healthy game. Right now, the game is dying. If you don't fix it, then there won't be a game 10 years from now. I'm looking at the overall picture when I say I side with the owners and that I support Bettman for sticking to his guns for as long as it takes.

Should they be negotiating? Hell yeah. But the problem is the players are not willing to accept the one real solution to fix the game (tying revenue to player salaries). I don't care how much the union has made in concessions because it isn't enough. Until they get serious whats the point of getting together? Just to make it look like they are negotiating for the sake of the fans?? No. Its going to take pressure from disgruntled players to force the union to negotiate reasonable solutions. Then the owners can start making concessions as well.

I love hockey. But I also realize the reality of the game. If they don't fix this, there's a very good chance that I might lose my team or other cities will lose their team. Maybe you can't see this if you live in a large market but the majority of the owners have been handcuffed for several years now. This is their time to fight back and I support them because it is for the good of the game.

Tom_Benjamin 09-25-2004 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriss_co
I want hockey as much as you do. The one biggest thing I want though, is a healthy game. Right now, the game is dying.

Don't be ridiculous. More people paid to watch NHL hockey last year than ever before. More people watched the game on television than ever before. The industry generated more revenue than ever before.

What nonsense.

Quote:

I love hockey.
I don't believe you. If you did, you'd be willing to pay more for it. If you did you would not begrudge the players you love to watch a single penny. If you did, you wouldn't put up with a lockout.

Quote:

If they don't fix this, there's a very good chance that I might lose my team or other cities will lose their team.
I'm to the point I'm hoping it happens. Contraction by attrition, I say. Call the bluff. If Calgary folds, fine they fold.

I'm tired of the whining and I'm tired of the demands for revenue sharing and I'm tired of the jealousy. The Red Wings pay more to their players because their fans pay more. Why should NHL hockey in Calgary cost half what it does in Denver or Vancouver?

Put up or shut up.

Tom

oilers_guy_eddie 09-25-2004 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
I don't believe you. If you did, you'd be willing to pay more for it. If you did you would not begrudge the players you love to watch a single penny. If you did, you wouldn't put up with a lockout.

Corporations love hockey, because they can afford to buy a few seasons' tickets to give out as rewards for the employee of the week. Fathers don't love hockey, because they can't spend $300 to take their family to a game more than once or twice a year. Mike Myers and Matthew Perry love hockey, because they can buy primo tickets to see the team whenever they're in town. College students don't love hockey, because they need the money to buy Kraft Dinner and books.

The idea that squeezing Joe Average out of the arena to extract exorbitant prices from entities which can pay them is healthy for the long term future of the game is questionable.

The idea that you can measure someone's love for the game by the amount they can afford to spend to attend is repulsive.

DownFromNJ 09-25-2004 06:59 PM

Quote:


I'm to the point I'm hoping it happens. Contraction by attrition, I say. Call the bluff. If Calgary folds, fine they fold.

I'm tired of the whining and I'm tired of the demands for revenue sharing and I'm tired of the jealousy. The Red Wings pay more to their players because their fans pay more. Why should NHL hockey in Calgary cost half what it does in Denver or Vancouver?

Quote:

I don't believe you. If you did, you'd be willing to pay more for it. .

Exactly my point. Your not a hockey fan. Your probably still jealous because Calgary beat Vancouver. You want other franchises to fold. Your pathetic.

habitual_hab 09-25-2004 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
Exactly my point. Your not a hockey fan. Your probably still jealous because Calgary beat Vancouver. You want other franchises to fold. Your pathetic.

standard tactic by those incapable of arguing a point - vilification.

DownFromNJ 09-26-2004 07:54 PM

Its not hard to vilify a villain.


Want to debate? I could go all day. But thats not what I'm writing about here.

chriss_co 09-27-2004 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Don't be ridiculous. More people paid to watch NHL hockey last year than ever before. More people watched the game on television than ever before. The industry generated more revenue than ever before.

ehhm... you have any stats from the states to back that up? if you look at the trend hockey is one of the least watched sports.. heck, the NHL has to set up special schedules for the US networks just to get barely over 1.0 percentage point of the viewing public.

Part of more viewers/revenue stems from the fact that ticket prices have gone up and the fact that there are now 30 teams instead of say 20 before expansion started. (You contradict yourself here when you say you want teams to contract)

The game is dying and if you are a true hockey fan you will notice and care about that. Would you be as interested as you are now with just 6 teams playing each other 10 times a season?

Quote:

I don't believe you. If you did, you'd be willing to pay more for it. If you did you would not begrudge the players you love to watch a single penny. If you did, you wouldn't put up with a lockout.
I'd answer this but someone already did so for me previously.

Quote:

I'm to the point I'm hoping it happens. Contraction by attrition, I say. Call the bluff. If Calgary folds, fine they fold.
Its not a bluff. Its reality. Open your eyes. Look out the window. Put on glasses. There are teams in the league on the verge of collapsing. I stress the plurality of the word teams. Its not 1 team. Its not 2. You're looking at potentially 6-7 teams ready to fold if the game isn't fixed. A true hockey fan would care.

Quote:

I'm tired of the whining and I'm tired of the demands for revenue sharing and I'm tired of the jealousy.
Actually the owners don't want revenue sharing.... its the players who use that clause to address league disparity.

Quote:

The Red Wings pay more to their players because their fans pay more. Why should NHL hockey in Calgary cost half what it does in Denver or Vancouver?

Put up or shut up.

Tom
Again... a true hockey fan would care.

sickboy35 09-27-2004 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis_24
Kurt,

And who pays the rent on the building so there is a place for the players to play? Who pays the people to sell the tickets and market the game? Who pays the guys and gals to provide you refreshments to enjoy the game? Please it takes both of them for you to be able to see the game played at the NHL level. I'm not for or against a Cap, but I do feel the owners should be at least making as much as the average NHL salary profit. Why is ok for players to make 1.8M but for owners to lose in excess of 10-20M a year? With the players proposal (even the NHLPA agreed) some teams would still lose money. The fact is a 5% rollback does nothing when the average player received a 16% raise this year, the salaries still went up. All revenue sharing and luxury taxes do is take money away from one owner and give to other owners not really a compensation made by players. 60$M in rookie salary savings do nothing split between the making and losing money teams works out to a whopping $2M annual how does that help teams losing in excess of $10M. Extreme situations need extreme measures to be resolved, a lockout is extreme but most likely required. Now if you want to get rid of the arbitration process and gauranteed contracts then lets talk. I don't believe the owners are trying to strong arm anyone. For all 30 teams to survive and extreme change is needed the players proposal barely scratches the surface.

and who charges me 8.00 dollars a beer? who charges me 5.00 dollars for hot dog? who charges me up to 20.00 dollars to park? yeah the owners are making no money!!

chriss_co 09-28-2004 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickboy35
and who charges me 8.00 dollars a beer? who charges me 5.00 dollars for hot dog? who charges me up to 20.00 dollars to park? yeah the owners are making no money!!

they aren't.... why do u think they have to charge you outrageous prices for beer and parking??

this is a perfect example going against goodenow's supply and demand analysis of ticket prices... you think fans are willing to pay 8 dollars for beer?? you think there is that much demand for hot dogs for the arena to charge 5 bucks for one??

the price of going to games (and buying food etc) has increased mostly due to escalating player costs

YellHockey* 09-28-2004 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriss_co
they aren't.... why do u think they have to charge you outrageous prices for beer and parking??

this is a perfect example going against goodenow's supply and demand analysis of ticket prices... you think fans are willing to pay 8 dollars for beer?? you think there is that much demand for hot dogs for the arena to charge 5 bucks for one??

the price of going to games (and buying food etc) has increased mostly due to escalating player costs

Then why are the prices similiar to what you'd pay at a movie theatre?

It's because they control the supply at the events and they know the demand is there to pay those outrageous prices.

Jeremy Jacobs owns the Bruins because he knew that people would pay those prices when they had no other choices.

mr gib 09-28-2004 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Then why are the prices similiar to what you'd pay at a movie theatre?

It's because they control the supply at the events and they know the demand is there to pay those outrageous prices.

Jeremy Jacobs owns the Bruins because he knew that people would pay those prices when they had no other choices.

i feel compelled - in the suites - 100 bux for a twelve pack - 25 bux for parking - screw the hot dog - we had to have the beer -

CRAZY_FAN 09-29-2004 11:49 AM

Anyone who thinks that the price of the tickets or food or parking will go down if a new CBA is signed should wake up. These prices are here to stay... :banghead:

Solak 09-29-2004 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces
Hell, I'm pissed.

As far as I'm concerned, lock them all in a room together, and don't let them come out until this thing is setteled.

I want Hockey...

If that was only possible to do, I wish someone had the power to make that happen! :handclap:

chriss_co 09-29-2004 04:27 PM

All i can tell you is this....

escalating expenses has decreased profits to the point where teams are in the red... what does this mean?? it means there has been an increased PRESSURE to drive up revenues

do you think someone with a $200 000 salary would scrutinize as much as someone on a $25 000 salary on whether to take a bus or take a taxi?

no... if there is no pressure to increase revenues even higher, people tend not to nitpick on specifics like consistently increasing concession costs...

one thing a system of cost certainty will do is more or less freeze ticket and concession costs.. whether they go down or not is the club's choice but without a system of cost certainty, expect to pay even more for games and food if you are lucky enough to still have a team to watch

Chelios 09-29-2004 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Don't be ridiculous. More people paid to watch NHL hockey last year than ever before. More people watched the game on television than ever before. The industry generated more revenue than ever before.

What nonsense.



I don't believe you. If you did, you'd be willing to pay more for it. If you did you would not begrudge the players you love to watch a single penny. If you did, you wouldn't put up with a lockout.



I'm to the point I'm hoping it happens. Contraction by attrition, I say. Call the bluff. If Calgary folds, fine they fold.

I'm tired of the whining and I'm tired of the demands for revenue sharing and I'm tired of the jealousy. The Red Wings pay more to their players because their fans pay more. Why should NHL hockey in Calgary cost half what it does in Denver or Vancouver?

Put up or shut up.

Tom

Quite possibly the most ignorant post I have ever read. :shakehead


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.