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-   -   Help me out re: Ville Leino, please (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1054999)

jBuds 12-14-2011 05:20 PM

Help me out re: Ville Leino, please
 
I know many of you (rightfully) laughed at the obscene contract Buffalo gave Leino this offseason. But there is no way he was as putrid for you guys as he has been for Buffalo.

Speaking for myself and myself alone, the guy has to be one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched. For a guy who is supposed to be a possession player, how can it be that I cringe when he has the puck? He slows down to a snail's pace until he turns it over or stickhandles himself into the boards 99% of the time. His stat line is atrocious, he claims to have been, at one point, a center - yet he is a painful 4 for 466 on draws this year.

My question: how were these blatant flaws so seemingly "well masked" by the Flyers last year? Was it a case of him being buried on the depth chart? Even that is tough to buy, since his shortcomings are evident no matter the opposing matchup.

Did you see this level of horrendousness on the horizon? And furthermore, when he was playing his best hockey for you last year, could you venture a guess as to why (circumstantially?) that was the case? How can we maximize him?

Thanks in advance.

G Money 12-14-2011 05:23 PM

he had good chemistry with Hartnell and Briere and who are his linemates in buffalo?

rafman522 12-14-2011 05:23 PM

really it trickles down to him having great chemistry with briere and hartnell. He accentuates Brieres game very well and it worked. Thats about the only thing i can think of

jBuds 12-14-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Money (Post 40949443)
he had good chemistry with Hartnell and Briere and who are his linemates in buffalo?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafman522 (Post 40949451)
really it trickles down to him having great chemistry with briere and hartnell. He accentuates Brieres game very well and it worked. Thats about the only thing i can think of

He started with Ennis and Boyes. He has been flipped six ways to Sunday and was playing (what I generously consider to be) his best hockey of the season with Adam and Kassian until he got hurt last night and is now out indefinitely. He handles the center duties on the Adam/Kasssian line, face offs aside.

I was really hoping the answer wouldn't be about Briere, selfishly, but sort of knew it would be. That sucks.

DickTony 12-14-2011 05:32 PM

Leino is definitely a complementary player; when paired with the right line mates, he has the ability to make plays happen. When he was paired with Briere and Hartnell, he held onto the puck long enough for one of them to break loose and made a lot of nice passes. His finishing touch was inconsistent but the chemistry with that line gave him enough ice time to "earn" this contract.

Leino will never carry a line by himself. Good luck with that contract :D

Flyotes 12-14-2011 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 40949345)
Did you see this level of horrendousness on the horizon? And furthermore, when he was playing his best hockey for you last year, could you venture a guess as to why (circumstantially?) that was the case? How can we maximize him?

Thanks in advance.

It's Lindy Ruff himself.

No one help him.

Mgkibbles 12-14-2011 05:41 PM

Either Leino isn't healthy, or he took the offseason off. When Leino was in Philadelphia he was very strong on the puck when healthy, but when his hip gave him issues then his possession game had serious issues. Hopefully he finds his game again, he's a pretty fun player to watch, but that contract was still a bad one.

Totally Radivojevic 12-14-2011 05:42 PM

He was incredible during the playoff run when the Flyers made the finals. I'm split on thinking he has chronically bad hips or he's a complete dog.

thelos 12-14-2011 05:49 PM

Leino is a weird player who plays a strange style. He developed great chemistry with Hartnell and Briere. Hartnell Crashed the net, Leino held the puck and Briere got in the slot

He always held the puck too long (and too close to the blueline)

DayoftheGreek 12-14-2011 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 40949345)
His stat line is atrocious, he claims to have been, at one point, a center - yet he is a painful 4 for 466 on draws this year.

Oh my god, is this true? HE HAS ONLY WON 4 FACEOFFS?!?? HAHAHAHAHHAHAH. :help::help:

Joking aside, I'm surprised he has been so awful. I don't know what to tell you.

Beef Invictus 12-14-2011 06:03 PM

Yeah, the holding onto the puck issue was something he's always done...however it often paid off as Hartnell and Briere got themselves open in great spots. Giroux often looks to pass too much when he should shoot, but he couldn't hold a candle to Leino, who would often have a wide open shot...a possible pass...and he would do neither and just skate around with the puck like it's his precious. If he's healthy and playing with people he has chemistry with he's a very good complimentary player...using him as a key piece, however, isn't a very good idea as you guys seem to be finding out.

35% on faceoffs is pretty putrid though, you'd think he'd accidentally win more than that. Many of us expected him to be a disappointment in Buffalo, but I know I certainly wasn't expecting him to be this bad.

Flyerfan4life 12-14-2011 06:08 PM

maybe give us a few more months and we can firesale you JVR/Carle aswell..

8-)

G Money 12-14-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 40949567)
He started with Ennis and Boyes. He has been flipped six ways to Sunday and was playing (what I generously consider to be) his best hockey of the season with Adam and Kassian until he got hurt last night and is now out indefinitely. He handles the center duties on the Adam/Kasssian line, face offs aside.

I was really hoping the answer wouldn't be about Briere, selfishly, but sort of knew it would be. That sucks.

there's 1 problem right there him playing center

Sawdalite 12-14-2011 06:18 PM

The problem as I see it is that the Sabres took a role winger with little track record and with their new found deep pockets paid for an established center... Leino could never stick with the Wings and only cracked the Flyers lineup through injury and being slotted with ideal teammates who he fit into like a glove... You will not see near such production with any other line-mates, and certainly not at the center position... He went as Briere and the line went, and at times he had his off periods and even worked into the coach's dog house a couple of times. He has made a few bonehead decisions and hasn't always played like he was totally healthy.

It appears that he was a product of established line-mates who adapted well to his talents and played well off them... not so much that he made the line better as much as he fit in well and complimented well at wing.

I believe the Flyers would have overpaid him to stay with Briere and Hartnell, but would not be held up in the process... With the offer Buffalo made, the Flyers didn't have to and were able to use the saved money for other player(s)... and may not have signed Jagr had Leino re-signed.

With the time and money sunk into Leino's contract, IMO, Lindy has to find he right players for him to complement and don't expect him to be the driving force on that line... maybe a lower line, and probably as a winger. I liked him, but with the way things turned out, I certainly can't say I miss him.

jBuds 12-14-2011 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawdalite (Post 40951613)

It appears that he was a product of established line-mates who adapted well to his talents and played well off them... not so much that he made the line better as much as he fit in well and complimented well at wing.

sadly true, it seems. Thanks for the responses, guys. Seems like we are SOL

XS Chop 12-14-2011 06:36 PM

Pretty much right on with the answers so far. Add the fact that we got him as kind of an unknown, a side note to us dumping Tollefsen on Detroit so we'd have been thrilled with the deal even if Leino never skated a shift for the Flyers. He was in a position to surprise us in a good way. You guys signing him to that contract pretty much doomed him to failure.

RJ8812 12-14-2011 06:40 PM

shot answers: line-mates

give him a power forward and a playmaker with scoring abilities

Go For It 12-14-2011 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XS Chop (Post 40952259)
Pretty much right on with the answers so far. Add the fact that we got him as kind of an unknown, a side note to us dumping Tollefsen on Detroit so we'd have been thrilled with the deal even if Leino never skated a shift for the Flyers. He was in a position to surprise us in a good way. You guys signing him to that contract pretty much doomed him to failure.

More importantly, Wolfy.

Flyerfan808 12-14-2011 06:58 PM

Ville Leino invented the spin-o-rama pass.

jBuds 12-14-2011 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 (Post 40953041)
Ville Leino invented the spin-o-rama pass.

To the opposing team :)

BillyShoe1721 12-14-2011 07:04 PM

Everything has pretty much been covered here. He's a complimentary player that can thrive with the right linemates. Kassian is one piece to the puzzle because he plays a game very similar to Hartnell's, so it's no surprise Leino played well with him on a line. Putting him at center is also a very bad idea because he's not good at faceoffs, and he's a liability defensively.

Tommy D 12-14-2011 07:46 PM

Ville Leino...... what can I say. Have a look at his footage during out Cup run. I thought he was a MONSTER.

Shame he doesn't have games like that night after night.

PALE PWNR 12-14-2011 08:03 PM

What does the Buffalo Sabres offensive lines look like 1-4 when healthy? If you want to maximize Leino's production first you have to stop expecting him to be a Center. He did handle a portion of the backchecking on the HBL line, however it seems Hartnell has proved himself this year while away from Briere that he was a very key peice to the defensive play of that line and maybe Leino got a bit too much credit in that regard.

I think it begins with him not being a Center and ends when he is put on a line with Roy. I don't know what your lines look like but see Roy and Briere being fairly similar players. Get a big body who can pump in points on the other side (Kassian) and maybe you will see what we saw in Leino while he was here.

Problem is I don't know what you guys look like in the Center position. Does Roy typically play with Vanek and Pominville as the top line or is it split? Ennis and Gerbe both play some C right? Hecht as well?

It's odd looking at the Flyers roster and seeing so much Center Depth and then going to the Buffalo roster and seeing nothing but LW and RW

FreshPerspective 12-14-2011 08:40 PM

I remember when he was first acquired...most people made fun of him by calling him Jay Leino and Lamo.....

It looks like the Lamo nickname is most appropriate given how putrid he has been. I actually thought he would do well in Buffalo but what concerned me about him was his diva type personality and how he didn't like being told how to play his game. There were some pretty damning interviews done on him and he said some real dumb stuff.

Actually here is the article I just remembered..I posted it on HFBoards at one point

Quote:

He immediately clashed with Flyers coach Peter Laviolette. Leino played in just 13 of the Flyers' 26 remaining regular-season games, collecting only two goals and two assists.

"Peter and I didn't start out very well together," Leino says. "It's not his fault. I don't blame him for that. But I can't play in that simple way that others can. I can't be that guy who just dumps the puck in, because I won't get anything done.

"I don't enjoy that. I won't get excited. Because that's not what I am."

And that's when Leino decided, after already wearing out his welcome under Mike Babcock in Detroit, that if he was going to fail, he was going to do it like the Sinatra song. "My way."

"I thought about [failing] a lot," he concedes. "But I said if I fail, I'll fail as myself and the player that I've developed and the player I've always been - not the player that tried to please somebody.


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1gYz11mjX

BrimFullofAsham45 12-14-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coutsiephan (Post 40957587)
I remember when he was first acquired...most people made fun of him by calling him Jay Leino and Lamo.....

It looks like the Lamo nickname is most appropriate given how putrid he has been. I actually thought he would do well in Buffalo but what concerned me about him was his diva type personality and how he didn't like being told how to play his game. There were some pretty damning interviews done on him and he said some real dumb stuff.

Actually here is the article I just remembered..I posted it on HFBoards at one point

I remember this article, it left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Strange comments for a middling athlete on an expiring contract to make.


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