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markisonfire 12-18-2011 05:08 PM

2012 NHL Entry Draft
 
So uh... any prospects I should be keeping my eye on? As it stands, we've got the 8th pick in the draft. The current ISS Top 30:

Quote:

1. Grigorenko, Mikhail, RW 5/16/94 L 6.03.25 200 Québec QMJHL
2. Yakupov, Nail, LW 10/6/93 L 5.10.5 189 Sarnia OHL
3. Forsberg, Filip, RW 8/13/94 R 6.01 176 Leksands SweAl
4. Murray, Ryan, LD 9/27/93 L 6.00.5 201 Everett WHL
5. Dumba, Matt, RD 7/25/94 R 5.11.75 183 Red Deer WHL
6. Trouba, Jacob, RD 2/26/94 R 6.02 196 USA Under-18 NTDP
7. Gaunce, Brendan, C 3/25/94 L 6.02 215 Belleville OHL
8. Aberg, Pontus, LW 9/23/93 R 5.11 187 Djurgarden SweE
9. Rielly, Morgan, LD 3/9/94 L 5.11.5 190 Moose Jaw WHL
10. Ceci, Cody, RD 12/21/93 R 6.02.5 207 Ottawa OHL
11. Maatta, Olli, LD 8/22/94 L 6.01.5 202 London OHL
12. Reinhart, Griffin, LD 1/24/94 L 6.03.75 207 Edmonton WHL
13. Koekkoek, Slater, LD 2/18/94 L 6.02 184 Peterborough OHL
14. Maidens, Jarrod, C 3/4/94 L 6.00.5 178 Owen Sound OHL
15. Collberg, Sebastian, RW 2/23/94 R 5.11 Vastra SweJE
16. Athanasiou, Andreas, C 8/6/94 L 6.00 179 London OHL
17. Frk, Martin, RW 10/5/93 L 5.11.5 204 Halifax QMJHL
18. Galchenyuk, Alexander, RW 2/12/94 L 6.00.5 198 Sarnia OHL
19. Girgensons, Zemgus, F 1/5/94 L 6.01.25 201 Dubuque USHL
20. Pouliot, Derrick, D 1/16/94 L 5.11.25 186 Portland WHL
21. Kerdiles, Nicholas, C/L 1/11/94 L, 6.01.5 200 USA Under-18 NTDP
22. Slepyshev, Anton, LW 5/13/94 R 6.02 187 Novokuznetsk KHL
23. Matheson, Mike, LD 2/27/94 L 6.01.25 180 Dubuque USHL
24. Finn, Matthew, LD 2/24/94 L 6.00.25 195 Guelph OHL
25. Sissons, Colton, C/R 11/5/93 L 6.01 189 Kelowna WHL
26. Bystrom, Ludvig, LD 7/29/94 L 6.00.75 208 Modo SweE
27. Wilson, Thomas, RW 3/29/94 R 6.03.5 203 Plymouth OHL
28. Faksa, Radek, LW 1/9/94 L 6.03 202 Kitchener OHL
29. Matteau, Stefan, LW 2/23/94 L 6.01 210 USA Under-18 NTDP
30. Skjei, Brady, LD 3/26/1994 L 6.03 203 USA Under-18 NTDP
Thoughts?

Also, surprised Nail is second.

Docgonzo 12-18-2011 05:16 PM

If GMs actually follow this I'd go for Galchenyuk, depending on how he is healing up. Hard to believe he is listed at 18.

SuperAlmeida 12-18-2011 05:18 PM

We definetly need a player (forward) with gamechanging abilities which means speed and skill!

Though I think Dean will pick a D, because this draft class has some really quality ones. If we pick a D, I hope its Cody Ceci (D). I have seen many Ottawa 67's games this year, because of Toffoli. Many of the defenders in this year's draft is very offensive minded, and I do not think Dean will draft it. He will draft a two-way defender. So I think Ceci can be a typical player he drafts. Originally, he was considered as a shutdown defenseman, but has shown great progress in the offensive part of the game. Right now he has 34GP, 7G, 27A, 34Pts.

If we pick a forward I hope its a winger. We are stacked on C for many years!
Filip Forsberg (RW) is a very interesting prospect and I believe he'll have a good World Juniors. He hasn't put up the numbers that was expected of him in Leksand this year, but he played very well at the Ivan Hlinka Tournament. I would say he was the best player there!

We could also take a chance on Zemgus Girgensons (C), who is from a non-hockey market (Latvia). New Kopitar?

Here you can watch the preseason show with Bob McKenzie. He analyze som prospects for the upcoming draft. It was published before the season started. http://watch.tsn.ca/draftcentre/#clip537057

I don't think we will draft in the top 5, but maybe top 10. Players we should consider: Forsberg (RW), Gaunce (C), Ceci (D), Galchenyuk (C), Reilly (D), Girgensons (C), Trouba (D) etc.

BigBrown 12-18-2011 05:41 PM

For me it's just too early to think about for several reasons. One, the prospect draft rankings will probably be scrambled before the season is over and two, we have no idea where we'll finish. We could finish in the bottom ten or top ten for all we know.

As always, assuming Lombardi is still here, the Kings will draft the best player available with an emphasis on the back end.

kingsfan 12-19-2011 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docgonzo (Post 41154677)
If GMs actually follow this I'd go for Galchenyuk, depending on how he is healing up. Hard to believe he is listed at 18.

From several dealings with them I had in years past while covering the WHL, ISS is a joke. I don't follow what they have to say much.

As for discussing who we should draft, I'd rather wait until the deadline is passed. If Sutter improves us, our draft ranking won't be 8th, and if we do improve there's a good chance DL deals the 1st rounder anyways.

AStammer7* 12-20-2011 05:48 PM

Lombardi Better Not deal 1st Rounder In 2012!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 41176779)
From several dealings with them I had in years past while covering the WHL, ISS is a joke. I don't follow what they have to say much.

As for discussing who we should draft, I'd rather wait until the deadline is passed. If Sutter improves us, our draft ranking won't be 8th, and if we do improve there's a good chance DL deals the 1st rounder anyways.

For a GM that preached building through the draft Lombardi would really be BSing us all. Hell might as well go back to trading all out picks rounds 1 -3 in every draft.Does anyone remember the 70's(70-74,76-78) and early 80's(82-83) and the 90's(91-94) This is a draft that could go down as one of the better ones in a long time. If the Kings have a shot at Galchenyuk we nab him right now and put him next to Kopitar. But knowing Lombardi if we do keep the pick it will be another American...Wish Lombardi would just take the best player available and not take the BAA...I like some of the Americans on our team...Lewis has been a disappointment so far and not worthy of the 17th pick in any draft.Czarnik shouldn't been picked until the 5th round maybe 6th round. Joey Ryan was aweful. Quick was awesome. Jury still out on Forbort. Brown has been pretty darn good. Thought Boyle was decent pick but Dean didn't. Wish the Kings had a chance on a player like Mike Modano, or a young Jeremy Roennick, or Keith Tkachuk, dam that would be sweet...wondering whether Nicolas Kerdiles can be like them.Hope the Kings don't take a d-man we have enough to last two lifetimes already...

Ziggy Stardust 12-20-2011 05:59 PM

Galchenyuk is ranked way too low there. If he's available past the 10th pick, trade up, whatever it takes, to select him.



Sybil227 12-20-2011 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmaloney27 (Post 41252609)
For a GM that preached building through the draft Lombardi would really be BSing us all. Hell might as well go back to trading all out picks rounds 1 -3 in every draft.Does anyone remember the 70's(70-74,76-78) and early 80's(82-83) and the 90's(91-94) This is a draft that could go down as one of the better ones in a long time. If the Kings have a shot at Galchenyuk we nab him right now and put him next to Kopitar. But knowing Lombardi if we do keep the pick it will be another American...Wish Lombardi would just take the best player available and not take the BAA...I like some of the Americans on our team...Lewis has been a disappointment so far and not worthy of the 17th pick in any draft.Czarnik shouldn't been picked until the 5th round maybe 6th round. Joey Ryan was aweful. Quick was awesome. Jury still out on Forbort. Brown has been pretty darn good. Thought Boyle was decent pick but Dean didn't. Wish the Kings had a chance on a player like Mike Modano, or a young Jeremy Roennick, or Keith Tkachuk, dam that would be sweet...wondering whether Nicolas Kerdiles can be like them.Hope the Kings don't take a d-man we have enough to last two lifetimes already...

None of Quick, Brown, or Boyle was a draft pick of Lombardi's. They were all drafted under Dave Taylor. 2006 was Lombardi's 1st draft year - and due to time shortages, he was stuck with Taylor's scouts & scouting reports. You could count 2007 as his 1st real year at the draft table. BTW, Quick is a testament to Dave Taylor's philosophy is drafting goaltenders.

KINGS17 12-20-2011 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sybil227 (Post 41255587)
None of Quick, Brown, or Boyle was a draft pick of Lombardi's. They were all drafted under Dave Taylor. 2006 was Lombardi's 1st draft year - and due to time shortages, he was stuck with Taylor's scouts & scouting reports. You could count 2007 as his 1st real year at the draft table. BTW, Quick is a testament to Dave Taylor's philosophy is drafting goaltenders.

But not his philosophy in developing them...

Chances are had Taylor taken Bernier in the 1st round, Quick gets traded and Bernier gets rushed to the NHL.

hauspaint 12-20-2011 11:44 PM

a scoring forward in the first round would be nice for a change...

kingsfan 12-21-2011 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AStammer7* (Post 41252609)
For a GM that preached building through the draft Lombardi would really be BSing us all. Hell might as well go back to trading all out picks rounds 1 -3 in every draft.Does anyone remember the 70's(70-74,76-78) and early 80's(82-83) and the 90's(91-94) This is a draft that could go down as one of the better ones in a long time. If the Kings have a shot at Galchenyuk we nab him right now and put him next to Kopitar. But knowing Lombardi if we do keep the pick it will be another American...Wish Lombardi would just take the best player available and not take the BAA...I like some of the Americans on our team...Lewis has been a disappointment so far and not worthy of the 17th pick in any draft.Czarnik shouldn't been picked until the 5th round maybe 6th round. Joey Ryan was aweful. Quick was awesome. Jury still out on Forbort. Brown has been pretty darn good. Thought Boyle was decent pick but Dean didn't. Wish the Kings had a chance on a player like Mike Modano, or a young Jeremy Roennick, or Keith Tkachuk, dam that would be sweet...wondering whether Nicolas Kerdiles can be like them.Hope the Kings don't take a d-man we have enough to last two lifetimes already...

Every year a draft is either "supposed to be the best in a long time" or "the worst in many years" and yet they all pan out the same, with rare exceptions (1996 was terrible, 1979 and 2003 were excellent).

And DL wouldn't be BSing us. You do have to build through the draft which he has done. That doesn't mean you can't trade picks. Look at Detroit. They've built largely through the draft but they've traded away their 1st round pick in 1997, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2011. That's nine times in the last 15 years they've moved their 1st rounder, yet they continue to be one of the better teams drafting wise out there

kingsfan 12-21-2011 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 41263887)
But not his philosophy in developing them...

Chances are had Taylor taken Bernier in the 1st round, Quick gets traded and Bernier gets rushed to the NHL.

Or worse, he ruins both.

I love how everyone heaps Quick and to some extent Bernier onto DT's plate when really, all he did was draft them. Neither played a professional game under DT's team and I don't even know if Quick made it past the rookie camp before DT was let go.

DT was outspoken about not drafting a goalie in the first round because you can get goalies in later rounds as well. While I do understand where he was coming from, in his time with LA, DT only drafted and developed one goalie who would go on to be an NHL regular for at least a few seasons, and that was Christobel Huet. It should be noted Huet was only a backup in LA and never really emerged until traded to Montreal (for Mathieu Garon no less), and it should also be noted that the only reason LA drafted Huet is because of the rules at the time about Europeans needing to be drafted before they could come to the NHL. If Huet was around today, odds are he would have been snapped up as a UFA prospect well before he was drafted.

I'm not meaning to rain on DT's parade, or try and give DL some bump, but DT's goalie track record was brutal and the philosophy behind it made no sense.

Sybil227 12-21-2011 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 41282965)
Or worse, he ruins both.

I love how everyone heaps Quick and to some extent Bernier onto DT's plate when really, all he did was draft them. Neither played a professional game under DT's team and I don't even know if Quick made it past the rookie camp before DT was let go.

DT was outspoken about not drafting a goalie in the first round because you can get goalies in later rounds as well. While I do understand where he was coming from, in his time with LA, DT only drafted and developed one goalie who would go on to be an NHL regular for at least a few seasons, and that was Christobel Huet. It should be noted Huet was only a backup in LA and never really emerged until traded to Montreal (for Mathieu Garon no less), and it should also be noted that the only reason LA drafted Huet is because of the rules at the time about Europeans needing to be drafted before they could come to the NHL. If Huet was around today, odds are he would have been snapped up as a UFA prospect well before he was drafted.

I'm not meaning to rain on DT's parade, or try and give DL some bump, but DT's goalie track record was brutal and the philosophy behind it made no sense.

Actually, while his ability to develop goaltenders was questionable, his philosophy in drafting them is perfectly sensible. You may not agree with it - but it is sensible. A lot of great goalies (Roy, Khabibulin, Tim Thomas, Billy Smith, Hasek) were drafted in later rounds. Some (Belfour) weren't even drafted. A number of goalies drafted in the 1st round never made it to the NHL or weren't very good (Trevor Kidd, Jimmy Waite). So it can be considered kind of a crap shoot. Taylor believed in (and I agree with this) drafting 1 or 2 goalies every year in rounds 3+ and seeing who rises to the top. Being able to do a good job developing goalies is a huge part of this - and he wasn't very good there. But I agree with the draft philosophy.

kingsfan 12-21-2011 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sybil227 (Post 41293027)
Actually, while his ability to develop goaltenders was questionable, his philosophy in drafting them is perfectly sensible. You may not agree with it - but it is sensible. A lot of great goalies (Roy, Khabibulin, Tim Thomas, Billy Smith, Hasek) were drafted in later rounds. Some (Belfour) weren't even drafted. A number of goalies drafted in the 1st round never made it to the NHL or weren't very good (Trevor Kidd, Jimmy Waite). So it can be considered kind of a crap shoot. Taylor believed in (and I agree with this) drafting 1 or 2 goalies every year in rounds 3+ and seeing who rises to the top. Being able to do a good job developing goalies is a huge part of this - and he wasn't very good there. But I agree with the draft philosophy.

It is sensible and it isn't. I agree many goalies come from the later rounds. This was actually discussed briefly on the board in the summer during one of many Bernier vs. Quick moments.

The issues I really have with Taylor's philosophy are twofold.

Firstly, while it is correct to say many goalies who can be NHL starters come from later rounds, to simply refuse to draft a goalie in the first or second round regardless of who is out there is just assinine. Of the 30 NHL starters (I used the 30 goalies who have played the majority of the games for their team this season) 14 were picked in either the 1st or 2nd round. So basically, DT eliminated almost half of his possible options off the hop. It's ok to go for it once in a while and he was willing to take on project picks elsewhere, such as Karlsson, Steckel, Boyle, Biron and Kopitar.

Secondly, even if you do only draft goalies in the lower rounds, you need a staff to identify them and develop them. DT's staff draft and developed one goalie who became an NHLer full-time for a few seasons, and that was Cristobel Huet. And Huet or became more than a backup after he left LA to go to Montreal. In total, DT drafted 12 goaltenders between 1997 and 2005 and five reached the NHL. That sounds good, but two played only one game and another played five games. The other two are Huet and Jonathan Quick, and Quick wasn't developed by DT's crew, so it's hard to allot full credit for that given it was a different group of people who actually worked with Quick and helped him with his game. As I said earlier, I don't think Quick actually ever played in a training camp with the Kings under DT (only rookie camps).

So really, DT's philosophy netted one above average netminder, ten busts and a guy who he can only take partial credit for. I don't call that a success.

SuperAlmeida 01-11-2012 02:22 AM

Is it right that we only have one pick (1st) in the first three rounds? On this page we don't have the 2nd or the 3rd round pick... Link: http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012

If that is true, then we can't trade our 1st pick this year!

I think we will draft one from the US Development program in the 1st round this year. Someone like Jacob Trouba or Nicholas Kerdiles. In the past we have drafted som players that have played for them like Forbort, Shore, Mersch etc... Now I'm leaning towards Phil Di Giuseppe (Uni. of Michigan) or Pontus Åberg! It could be worth to trade down and pick a guy like Zharkov and someone else.

BigBrown 01-11-2012 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida (Post 42288611)
Is it right that we only have one pick (1st) in the first three rounds? On this page we don't have the 2nd or the 3rd round pick... Link: http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012

If that is true, then we can't trade our 1st pick this year!

I think we will draft one from the US Development program in the 1st round this year. Someone like Jacob Trouba or Nicholas Kerdiles. In the past we have drafted som players that have played for them like Forbort, Shore, Mersch etc... Now I'm leaning towards Phil Di Giuseppe (Uni. of Michigan) or Pontus Åberg! It could be worth to trade down and pick a guy like Zharkov and someone else.

Yeah we traded the 2nd in the Mike Richards deal and the 3rd for Penner, IIRC. Would be nice to hang on to the 1st round pick this year.

Gentle Ben Kenobi 01-11-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 41263887)
But not his philosophy in developing them...

Chances are had Taylor taken Bernier in the 1st round, Quick gets traded and Bernier gets rushed to the NHL.

No way. Taylor would have taken Lewis. That was Al Murray's boy.
Also remember at that time Garon/ GuadaLaBarbera were our goalies.

BKR 01-11-2012 11:31 AM

Too early to think about at this point, but if you watched the WJC's recently you saw a lot of the talent available.

Jason Lewis 01-11-2012 01:13 PM

I like how the mock drafts have us all taking Centers. Skilled centers.


They do know that we have Richards Kopitar and Loktionov for likely the next 5+ years right?? lol

Hopefully Nicolas Kerdiles is still available for us.

CNS 01-11-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaygokings (Post 42302655)
I like how the mock drafts have us all taking Centers. Skilled centers.


They do know that we have Richards Kopitar and Loktionov for likely the next 5+ years right?? lol

Hopefully Nicolas Kerdiles is still available for us.


Also...can anyone else fathom that ****ing Boston has another lottery pick cause of Toronto? It's crazy...they could land Yakupov....or Galchenyuk or what they really need, Matt Dumba....and are likely cup favorites this year. So ****ing crazy. Thanks Toronto
.

Ummmmmmm wut?

Jason Lewis 01-11-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnshockey (Post 42302949)
Ummmmmmm wut?

TOTALLY misread the 2011 for 12 HAHAHAHAH never mind me I suck ****.

voynov26 01-11-2012 01:36 PM

True it is too early. But what the heck! Let's loosen up guys ;)

If DL picks a "D" I would like us to draft either of the three.

Griffin Reinhart
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/200 lbs
Position: D
Team: Edmonton (WHL)

The sky is the limit for 2012 NHL Draft prospect Griffin Reinhart. This six-foot four, two hundred pound blueliner from the Edmonton Oil Kings has all the tools needed to have a successful pro career. His father Paul played over 600 NHL games in his career, and his brother Max is a highly touted Calgary Flames prospect. Griffin thinks that one of his strong points is his shot, which isn't too surprising given his size. But scouts will also tell you that his mobility on the ice is another strength. Pro scouts are salivating at the thought of having Griffin on their blueline some day, as big mobile defenseman are highly sought after in today's NHL. Reinhart likes to think that he could be the next Shea Weber, and at this rate there is certainly a possibility that he could be just that. Being from the Vancouver area, it's not surprising to hear that Griffin is also a big Vancouver Canucks fan. However the chances of the Canucks – a top NHL team – selecting him are slim. Griffin is expected to go fairly early in the first round in 2012, and the Canucks typically have a pick later in the first round. But wherever Reinhart ends up, he'll be happy to go there, and the team that drafts him will certainly be glad to get him.
Submitted by: David O'Connor

Olli Maatta
Ht/Wt: 6' 2"/198 lbs
Position: D
Team: London (OHL)

Maatta is a solid, two-way defenseman who does not possess any significant deficiencies. His excellent feet and agility allow him to stay with even the speediest of forwards, resulting in quality one-on-one defensive coverage and giving Maatta shutdown capabilities. Maatta is an aggressive defender, as he successfully takes away time and space from the opposing puck carrier by consistently closing the gap. Though he is not the type to stand up a player at the blue line, his strong frame and physical play make Maatta a tenacious defender along the boards. His attack mentality and ability to push opponents off the puck both lead to continuous success in the defensive end. Maatta is also unwavering in his decision making. He rapidly takes action whether he is in possession of the puck or pursuing it, though some might consider his getting rid of the puck so hastily at times a sign of impatience. There is no shortfall in Maatta’s offensive game either. He can make a clean first pass out of his end to initiate the counterattack, join the rush, or carry the puck into the attacking zone himself. Maatta’s sufficient point shot and and valuable passing skills provide him with key power play resources as well.
Written by: Kevin Hopson

A defenceman with a good frame. Very good overall skills, though better defensively. A very patient player who positions himself well. Excellent hockey sense. Doesn't usually go for big hits, but likes to play the body enough to steal the puck.
Written by: Matias Strozyk of EliteProspects.com

Slater Koekkoek
Ht/Wt: 6' 2"/183 lbs
Position: D
Team: Peterborough (OHL)

In only his first season in the OHL, he became the team's most reliable defenceman. The Petes are a young team and, even for a 1994-born player, he surely brought leadership and drive. His work ethic is exemplary and he has veteran savvy. Koekkoek has a heavy and accurate shot; it would not be out of the question to see him score double-digit goal totals in the OHL, even by next season. His passes are crisp and quick. He has a fluid skating stride that allows for him to jump into the rush. Additionally, Koekkoek can also play physical, making him a great all-around defenceman. He has potential to be a powerplay quarterback in Peterborough. His leadership was evident at the World Under-17 Hockey Challenge in 2010 where he helped Team Ontario win gold; he also won gold at the 2011 Memorial Tournament of Ivan Hlinka for Canada as an alternate captain. He plays the game with passion and tenacity; he is an exciting player to watch. His name might be hard to say but, in time, everyone will be saying it.
Submitted by: Margann Laurissa

If DL drafts a forward I also want someone who has speed and skill. Enough of this grit grinders. We have enough of those for now. The probkem is there's not a lot of them this year.

My choices for forward are Filip Forsberg and Alex Galchenyuk but we all know they won't be available by the time our pick comes up. So here are my best choices.

Pontus Aberg
Ht/Wt: 5'11"/187 lbs
Position: LW
Team: Djurgardens (Swe)

Scouts who have followed Åberg the past three seasons have their reports filled with very similar observations:

"A speedy and unconventional talent who knows how to find his way through traffic."

"He seems to have a natural instinct when it comes to finding solutions even when his speed seems to be almost too much for himself. He has a quick and accurate release when firing the puck to the net and he is very creative in one-on-one situations."

by ESPN

Brendan Gaunce
Ht/Wt: 6' 2"/205 lbs
Position: C
Team: Belleville (OHL)

Brendan Gaunce has great vision, skating ability, hockey sense, a pro calibre shot, and unbelievable leadership qualities on and off the ice. He is the younger brother of Colorado Avalanche prospect Cameron Gaunce, and will most likely be selected in the first twenty picks of the 2012 NHL Draft. He was the highest-scoring AAA minor midget hockey player in Ontario in his OHL draft year with 55 goals and 93 assists for 148 points in 86 games with the Markham Waxers. In his rookie year with the Belleville Bulls, Gaunce had 36 points in 65 games, and will be relied on heavily in the 2011-2012 season. One of Brendan's role models growing up was Brendan Shanahan. Considering his size, Gaunce is an above average skater, however it will need to be improved to be a star at the next level.
Submitted by: David O'Connor

Sebastian Collberg
Ht/Wt: 5'11"/174 lbs
Position: RW
Team: Frolunda HC (Swe)

Sebastian Collberg thrives on speed. The Swedish winger has an excellent shot that he is not afraid to let go from all over the ice.

His seven-point effort in the 2012 WJC will do wonders for his draft stock leading up to June's selection party.

Monarchist 01-11-2012 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sybil227 (Post 41293027)
Actually, while his ability to develop goaltenders was questionable, his philosophy in drafting them is perfectly sensible. You may not agree with it - but it is sensible. A lot of great goalies (Roy, Khabibulin, Tim Thomas, Billy Smith, Hasek) were drafted in later rounds. Some (Belfour) weren't even drafted. A number of goalies drafted in the 1st round never made it to the NHL or weren't very good (Trevor Kidd, Jimmy Waite). So it can be considered kind of a crap shoot. Taylor believed in (and I agree with this) drafting 1 or 2 goalies every year in rounds 3+ and seeing who rises to the top. Being able to do a good job developing goalies is a huge part of this - and he wasn't very good there. But I agree with the draft philosophy.

I agree with this.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 41296355)
It is sensible and it isn't. I agree many goalies come from the later rounds. This was actually discussed briefly on the board in the summer during one of many Bernier vs. Quick moments.

The issues I really have with Taylor's philosophy are twofold.

Firstly, while it is correct to say many goalies who can be NHL starters come from later rounds, to simply refuse to draft a goalie in the first or second round regardless of who is out there is just assinine. Of the 30 NHL starters (I used the 30 goalies who have played the majority of the games for their team this season) 14 were picked in either the 1st or 2nd round. So basically, DT eliminated almost half of his possible options off the hop. It's ok to go for it once in a while and he was willing to take on project picks elsewhere, such as Karlsson, Steckel, Boyle, Biron and Kopitar.

Secondly, even if you do only draft goalies in the lower rounds, you need a staff to identify them and develop them. DT's staff draft and developed one goalie who became an NHLer full-time for a few seasons, and that was Cristobel Huet. And Huet or became more than a backup after he left LA to go to Montreal. In total, DT drafted 12 goaltenders between 1997 and 2005 and five reached the NHL. That sounds good, but two played only one game and another played five games. The other two are Huet and Jonathan Quick, and Quick wasn't developed by DT's crew, so it's hard to allot full credit for that given it was a different group of people who actually worked with Quick and helped him with his game. As I said earlier, I don't think Quick actually ever played in a training camp with the Kings under DT (only rookie camps).

So really, DT's philosophy netted one above average netminder, ten busts and a guy who he can only take partial credit for. I don't call that a success.

I would say there is a big difference between first and second round picks, between the skater you could get 15th and 45th, say. So my philosophy might be a bit less extreme than DTs but is very similar wrt first round picks. I wouldn't say never use a second round pick on one.

And it's not fair to lump development with drafting. If anything picking more goalies should mean fewer get rushed. Why guys were rushed or otherwise not developed properly under DT isn't because of the a) don't use 1st round picks on goalies+ b) draft many goalies in later rounds philosophy that I agree with. Drafting more goalies should mean it's easier to develop them properly and not rush them, unless I am missing something.

kingsfan 01-11-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchist (Post 42303615)
I agree with this.




I would say there is a big difference between first and second round picks, between the skater you could get 15th and 45th, say. So my philosophy might be a bit less extreme than DTs but is very similar wrt first round picks. I wouldn't say never use a second round pick on one.

And it's not fair to lump development with drafting. If anything picking more goalies should mean fewer get rushed. Why guys were rushed or otherwise not developed properly under DT isn't because of the a) don't use 1st round picks on goalies+ b) draft many goalies in later rounds philosophy that I agree with. Drafting more goalies should mean it's easier to develop them properly and not rush them, unless I am missing something.

If that's the cause, and those goalies still didn't pan out, doesn;'t that just mean his drafting was even worse since these prospects would have been afforded timet o develop and grow properly? As such, if that's true, then their actual talent level just wasn't good enough, which is the main focus a scout should be looking for.

Whiskeypete 01-11-2012 02:38 PM

this summer is all about skilled forwards, preferably wingers. Kings need to get as many as possible, in the same way that DL "built from the net out". in order to increase the chances of getting a gem, or even some good consistent scoring wingers. the past few years he has picked more, but nobody knows yet what LA has and where those kids will end up.

to date since 2006 when DL came aboard, drafted and developed these kids. the only THREE forwards that have over 100 games is Simmonds, Lewis and Clifford. from there you have Moller (87), Lokti (42) and Schenn (22). only 21% (6 of 29) forwards drafted in DL's tenure have made it to the NHL at this point (I'm not counting D King's rest stop last year of 6 GP....that is laughable). obviously among them there isn't a true and solid 1st or 2nd line winger, with the sniper skill set LA badly needs.

the crop of kids spread between juniors, college and MAN right now will/could be what ultimately seals DL's fate and legacy as the GM. when and just how well they do when they get called on will also help to determine LA's long term future.

when it comes to this summer though, LA needs to just stockpile wingers they have evaluated and want. the same way they have done with D & G's for the past six drafts, that have created a log jam of good prospects.


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