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-   -   Proposal: JVR replace Hartnell on the top line (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1064065)

RevUpThoseGolfCarts 12-27-2011 01:39 AM

JVR replace Hartnell on the top line
 
I know that the Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr line is amazing and all, but I think they could have the same effect with JVR (if he goes to the net) and could increase his production. Hartnell could go back with Briere and Voracek (as the new, better Leino) to create another great line.

it'd be cool if the Flyers tried something like this out.

WeekendAtBernies 12-27-2011 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers (Post 41509425)
I know that the Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr line is amazing and all, but I think they could have the same effect with JVR (if he goes to the net) and could increase his production. Hartnell could go back with Briere and Voracek (as the new, better Leino) to create another great line.

it'd be cool if the Flyers tried something like this out.

If you think JVR can have the same effect as Hartnell, then why isn't JVR having that effect right now w/ Briere?

Your logic is quite confusing IMO.

I'm not against trying new things... on the contrary I'd love to get our 2nd and 3rd lines scoring again, I just don't think this is the way to go about doing it. I think you don't mess with the one thing you've got going for you right now... and that 1st line is like magic. Don't touch it no matter what.

I'm of the opinion that JVR is hurt right now and I don't think he's going to be productive until he gets fully healed and is skating @ 100% again. So I'm definitely against this move.

orange is better 12-27-2011 07:46 AM

Wasn't Jvr with giroux and Jagr to start the season?

orange is better 12-27-2011 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandlansd (Post 41509587)
If you think JVR can have the same effect as Hartnell, then why isn't JVR having that effect right now w/ Briere?

Your logic is quite confusing IMO.

I'm not against trying new things... on the contrary I'd love to get our 2nd and 3rd lines scoring again, I just don't think this is the way to go about doing it. I think you don't mess with the one thing you've got going for you right now... and that 1st line is like magic. Don't touch it no matter what.

I'm of the opinion that JVR is hurt right now and I don't think he's going to be productive until he gets fully healed and is skating @ 100% again. So I'm definitely against this move.

While I understand what you're saying, and agree with you in some respect, you could have said the same thing about hartnell early in the season when he was playing on the 3rd line and looked absolutely awful.

decadentia 12-27-2011 07:54 AM

Don't touch it if it ain't broken.

Oh, JVR is broken, Doctors should fix him.

Kaktus* 12-27-2011 07:54 AM

Quote:

If you think JVR can have the same effect as Hartnell, then why isn't JVR having that effect right now w/ Briere?
I thik he really is injured.

JagerPuck 12-27-2011 08:02 AM

Either way line shake up or not, James needs to show some life. Hes has 9 goals but they seem like theyve been meaningless.

Left Circle OneTimer 12-27-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange is better (Post 41512049)
Wasn't Jvr with giroux and Jagr to start the season?

Yep and it was no where as successful as with Hartnell. Don't know where the OP was at the beginning of the season.

RespectTheCouts 12-27-2011 02:00 PM

I get what you're suggesting but you don't touch that first line right now, it's magic like Gandalf now, plus JVR will be better when he recovers from whatever injury he is playing through at the moment

Beef Invictus 12-27-2011 02:01 PM

Been there, done that, didn't work, Hartnell did.

Spongolium* 12-27-2011 02:39 PM

You don't break that line up no matter what. Hartnell is pacing for not only a Career year, but a top 10 finish. Wouldn't that be epic.

It's the other two lines that need to be shaken up.

Briere - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Talbot - Voracek

( JVR on IR )

flyersfan187 12-27-2011 03:33 PM

Hartnell is one of the better players in the NHL that can do what he does. No way you should move him down to try to get a different player going. JVR will come on sometime this season and hopefully before the playoffs

Xegiie 12-27-2011 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 41521545)
Been there, done that, didn't work, Hartnell did.

exactly, not sure how much he was limited in the start of season but that line was really bad with JVR, i wouldn't even try it

FlyersFan61290 12-27-2011 05:15 PM

I would leave the top line alone. but I would like to see things shaken up a bit. maybe
JVR-Schenn-Voracek
Read-Briere-Simmonds

Left Circle OneTimer 12-27-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 (Post 41526973)
I would leave the top line alone. but I would like to see things shaken up a bit. maybe
JVR-Schenn-Voracek
Read-Briere-Simmonds

There's no way Briere is placed on the 3rd line. He's a first line center on many teams in the league. You don't just throw that away for the sake of a rookie that hasn't done anything yet and hasn't even been projected to be bette than briere was in his prime.

mirimon 01-03-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 41521545)
Been there, done that, didn't work, Hartnell did.

Yeah, JvR was pretty much invisible when he was with Giroux and Jagr in the first games of the season. Good thing Hartnell was promoted to the top line instead of demoted to the fourth...

I've been hoping for a line of JvR-Brière-Voracek to find some chemistry. We really could use to get JvR and Brière to get going soon. Voracek's abilities as setup man might help them (apart from the Winter Classic game, I haven't seen the games since the Dallas one, so I'm not entirely sure of how the lines have looked recently).

If we can have a healthy (forwards) lineup for a while, I wouldn't mind seeing something like:

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JvR-Brière-Voracek
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Wellwood-Schenn-Talbot

I like what Zolnierczyk and Rinaldo has done this year, but if we are fully healthy I think Wellwood is a better fit since all of our lines would be pretty damn good offensively, and he brings a little bit more in that aspect. He's played two games in the AHL now since returning from injury, and has three points in those I believe. He's also reliable defensively. Zolnierczyk and Rinaldo could use some time in the AHL to work on the pk and come back next year to really push for some ice time. Shelley's in the press box.

This would give us a clear top six, but the bottom six is pretty much two third lines (apart from the two rookies on each line, perhaps). Talbot is having a great season and should be pretty helpful for Schenn I think.

sobrien 01-03-2012 01:53 PM

Proposal: Sit JvR down for a week or two and see if he can get healthy. Look into the surgery route ASAP if needed.

We don't need another Mike Richards situation from last year where after he underperforms all season/playoffs, we hear "yeah, I should've gotten the surgery when we first found it back in October..."

Codith 01-03-2012 02:49 PM

JVR doesn't deserve top line minutes, and I don't want to break up a hot line.

Beef Invictus 01-03-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 41840155)
Proposal: Sit JvR down for a week or two and see if he can get healthy. Look into the surgery route ASAP if needed.

We don't need another Mike Richards situation from last year where after he underperforms all season/playoffs, we hear "yeah, I should've gotten the surgery when we first found it back in October..."

Yes please.

StrongIslanders90 01-03-2012 03:06 PM

wish my team had these kind of problems....

FlyersFan61290 01-03-2012 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer (Post 41527957)
There's no way Briere is placed on the 3rd line. He's a first line center on many teams in the league. You don't just throw that away for the sake of a rookie that hasn't done anything yet and hasn't even been projected to be bette than briere was in his prime.

why do you feel the need to assign titles like 2nd line and 3rd line. During the WC last night Briere was playing with Simmonds and Read for most of his shifts which was what i said in my post. Why do you consider that the 3rd line? The way I see it the Flyers have a clear cut top line of G w/ Jags and Hartnell and a 4th line w/ Harry Z, Couts and another player that may change from time to time. The other lines don't have a title imo. And by the way Briere has one season w/ 95 pts and one with 72 all other season were lower, the next highest was last year so what exactly was his prime those 2 years were he scored the aforementioned point totals (06-08)? Briere is good for the playoffs and good with the young guys thats why fans (and probably management too) tolerates his above-average (but nothing special) regular seasons numbers and his sub-par defense while getting paid 6.5mil. And as far as the "throwing him away for a rookie" thing I'm a firm believer in the ice time going to whoever deserves it. If he is not playing well (which I never said) then yes someone else gets the ice time even if they are a rookie. I don't care about salary or what they have done in the past. If that means that Briere takes on a limited role (something like 10 min even strength and then just PP time) until he earns more then I'm completely ok with that.

Left Circle OneTimer 01-03-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 (Post 41846575)
why do you feel the need to assign titles like 2nd line and 3rd line. During the WC last night Briere was playing with Simmonds and Read for most of his shifts which was what i said in my post. Why do you consider that the 3rd line? The way I see it the Flyers have a clear cut top line of G w/ Jags and Hartnell and a 4th line w/ Harry Z, Couts and another player that may change from time to time. The other lines don't have a title imo. And by the way Briere has one season w/ 95 pts and one with 72 all other season were lower, the next highest was last year so what exactly was his prime those 2 years were he scored the aforementioned point totals (06-08)? Briere is good for the playoffs and good with the young guys thats why fans (and probably management too) tolerates his above-average (but nothing special) regular seasons numbers and his sub-par defense while getting paid 6.5mil. And as far as the "throwing him away for a rookie" thing I'm a firm believer in the ice time going to whoever deserves it. If he is not playing well (which I never said) then yes someone else gets the ice time even if they are a rookie. I don't care about salary or what they have done in the past. If that means that Briere takes on a limited role (something like 10 min even strength and then just PP time) until he earns more then I'm completely ok with that.

he had 58 points in 48 games some year ago. Disregarding it because he got injured is like saying Crosby's last year didn't count because he got injured and therefore people were hyped up about nothing :huh:.

Briere hasn't been playing too well but still name 3 people outside of the top line who have produced more than him?

Hockeypete49 01-03-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 (Post 41526973)
I would leave the top line alone. but I would like to see things shaken up a bit. maybe
JVR-Schenn-Voracek
Read-Briere-Simmonds

I really like the looks of those two lines. Harry Z. needs to be sent down to learn how to play in his own end. I like him. But he is a defensive liability right now. Testwuide looks like he has picked his game up. I would like to see him here for a while. Akeson and Sestito both have been playing well. Any reason why Wellwood has not gotten a sniff this year?

JoeFlyer 01-03-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 41840155)
Proposal: Sit JvR down for a week or two and see if he can get healthy. Look into the surgery route ASAP if needed.

We don't need another Mike Richards situation from last year where after he underperforms all season/playoffs, we hear "yeah, I should've gotten the surgery when we first found it back in October..."

Secong the yes please.

He's not playing well so shut him down if he's hurt... Hell, bench him for just not being good enough if you have to... Might as well try to either let him heal or tell him he needs to be better.

As for some of the other stuff, agreed that You don't touch the top line, and that our 2nd and 3rd lines hold pretty much irrelevant titles. Briere is our 2nd best centre he's just not clicking with anyone at the mo, keep switching his wingers til something clicks I suppose. Must be a pair for him from Voracek, Read, Simmonds, Talbot, and JvR...

Maybe Even give Schenn a run on wing? We have enough centres and he might kick on now... Though Briere and Schenn might leave some defensive questions.

Does anyone else think that we could maybe do with a few defensive forwards? Or at least a defense oriented line? I mean Couturier is good at that and Talbot was supposed to be but even he attacks now, Just feel we could do with one line who don't play D in the offensive zone...

Danglous 01-03-2012 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 41840155)
Proposal: Sit JvR down for a week or two and see if he can get healthy. Look into the surgery route ASAP if needed.

We don't need another Mike Richards situation from last year where after he underperforms all season/playoffs, we hear "yeah, I should've gotten the surgery when we first found it back in October..."

I have the same thing wrong with my hip and while sitting out for long periods of time does help, all it takes is one tweak to be right back where you were before. Not sure if I like the idea of Reemer sitting for the rest of the year though.


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