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-   -   Penalty kill-AHL#1,NHL#30????? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1064869)

Liferleafer 12-28-2011 09:22 AM

Penalty kill-AHL#1,NHL#30?????
 
I'm not here to beat a dead horse, but how can our NHL coaching team be so low yet the AHL team is so high? Maybe it's time for Wilson to take Eakins out for lunch and pick his brain....no??

Raym11 12-28-2011 09:32 AM

it's because Ron Wilson is like, soooooooooo funny on twitter!!

Interactif 12-28-2011 09:40 AM

Eakins strategy on the PK: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...19_124245_3204

Aggression on the PK. Pressure, make the opposing team's PP uncomfortable.

indigobuffalo 12-28-2011 09:44 AM

They play the same system in the AHL as they do in the NHL.

I mean, you could speculate that it works better in the A.
You could speculate that the guys in the AHL are proportionately better than their competition versus the NHL players to their competion.
You could speculate that it's the coaching staff.

There're plenty of reasons why this might be.

I can only assume that the masses will not give it much thought and assume that even though it's not a system directly instituted by Eakins and Wilson that Eakins is clearly a bajillion times better as a coach than Wilson, and hence must depose Wilson post-haste.

To which I can only soupire and wonder where the sanity has all gone...

SteveV* 12-28-2011 09:45 AM

Thanks for this thread, I can't seem to find the Leafs PK problems explored anywhere else on the site.

Quarter 12-28-2011 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 41552867)
They play the same system in the AHL as they do in the NHL.

No they don't.

rj24 12-28-2011 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interactif (Post 41552779)
Eakins strategy on the PK: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...19_124245_3204

Aggression on the PK. Pressure, make the opposing team's PP uncomfortable.

Pretty much the opposite of the Leafs PK. They are far too stationary and let people have to much time, then when they do try to be a little aggressive they start puck chasing and leaving guys wide open. I also find our defensemen play too high in the slot leaving an easy 2 on 1 or even a 2 on 0 right in front the of the net.

indigobuffalo 12-28-2011 09:47 AM

I just want to add, someone else before me had discussed the notion that the PK system the Leafs employ needs perfect execution and we just don't have a talented enough team to do it.

The Marlies probably don't need a perfect execution to succeed with the system.

indigobuffalo 12-28-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarter (Post 41552903)
No they don't.

Oh good. Why would they? It's not like the purpose of the AHL is to prepare these guys to play on the NHL club.

Out of curiosity where do I go to find out exactly what the system is that both teams employ?

Raging Bull 12-28-2011 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interactif (Post 41552779)
Eakins strategy on the PK: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...19_124245_3204

Aggression on the PK. Pressure, make the opposing team's PP uncomfortable.

I think they try to do that, but it's much easier to play that style in the AHL than the NHL, guys are moving the puck around much quicker up here. As soon as the other team gets sustained pressure for more than 20 seconds our PK goes to hell, guys leave their assignments and just go puck chasing. A big part of it is just the confidence they have in it.

SteveV* 12-28-2011 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 41552941)
I just want to add, someone else before me had discussed the notion that the PK system the Leafs employ needs perfect execution and we just don't have a talented enough team to do it.

The Marlies probably don't need a perfect execution to succeed with the system.

I like the way the Marlies do PK, but there is an argument that you can get away with that style against less gifted offensive players, you don't pay a price for aggression. That said, I don't like the fact we play a hard forechecking game, in your face, keep the other team off balance 5 on 5, then turn into this passive team when we're on the PK. Ideally, I want three guys in the neutral zone not giving up an inch or the red line, we just collapse and set up a box.

Interactif 12-28-2011 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj24 (Post 41552923)
Pretty much the opposite of the Leafs PK. They are far too stationary and let people have to much time, then when they do try to be a little aggressive they start puck chasing and leaving guys wide open. I also find our defensemen play too high in the slot leaving an easy 2 on 1 or even a 2 on 0 right in front the of the net.

Eakins also talked about changing guys on the fly, and using high energy guys. He will start with Ziggy and Hamilton to win face offs and when possession is won, he changes them up focusing pressure up ice rather than just concentrating on their own zone. Repeat that pressure up ice, something the Leafs do not do.

indigobuffalo 12-28-2011 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interactif (Post 41553103)
Eakins also talked about changing guys on the fly, and using high energy guys. He will start with Ziggy and Hamilton to win face offs and when possession is won, he changes them up focusing pressure up ice rather than just concentrating on their own zone. Repeat that pressure up ice, something the Leafs do not do.

See... to me that sounds like exactly what the Leafs TRY to do, but against stronger opposition it doesn't work as effectively. Where the Marlies always seem to be a half-step ahead of the opposition, the Leafs are a half-step behind.

5-on-5 the Leafs are one of the better teams in the NHL. So personally I think the system is a good one, it's just not working as well on the PK.

Interactif 12-28-2011 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raging Bull (Post 41553075)
I think they try to do that, but it's much easier to play that style in the AHL than the NHL, guys are moving the puck around much quicker up here. As soon as the other team gets sustained pressure for more than 20 seconds our PK goes to hell, guys leave their assignments and just go puck chasing. A big part of it is just the confidence they have in it.

There is no doubt the talent in the AHL is higher end, but if you ask me what the MO of our PK is up here, I would seriously have a tough time describing it. One hand you have games where guys are standing stationary in a box, no puck pressure. Another game you will have 3 guys in a corner, with one guy flat on his back. There is no rhyme or reason to this PK. Passes through the box, guys unmarked in front of the net. It's a mess. Now one thing I did point out that Eakins preaches is he uses high energy guys to keep the pressure on opposing teams up ice, everyone is rightfully focused on the play in your own zone but wasting seconds making it hard for other teams to set up in our zone is overlooked and is just as valuable in the PK.

DeathToAllButMetal 12-28-2011 10:06 AM

How much of the PK problem is D overcompensating for forwards who are weak on the puck? You see D drifting high and wide all the time to cover for forwards losing battles for puck possession, which inevitably leaves somebody open down low and they get burned.

I hate to say this, because I hate Wilson, but I don't think the PK problem is nearly as much coaching as it is personnel. This team does not have very good PK forwards. Burke should have really tried to address this last summer.

Liferleafer 12-28-2011 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveV (Post 41552893)
Thanks for this thread, I can't seem to find the Leafs PK problems explored anywhere else on the site.

Thanks for the witty reparte...just thought i'd point out the GLARING difference between 2 teams in the same orginization.

Mansfield 12-28-2011 10:11 AM

watching the marlies PK on monday, their success I saw as more of a function of a crappy opposition power play than a good PK on them. Looked very similar to the leafs pk...

shaner89 12-28-2011 10:18 AM

Why would wilson change it?

Its been dead last since his arrival.

Brain dead organziation

KesselPhaneufTML 12-28-2011 10:20 AM

I think its only a matter of time until Eakins gets a job offer from another NHL team if we don't give him a role on the NHL team soon. I could be wrong, just my opionion

Interactif 12-28-2011 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansfield (Post 41553563)
watching the marlies PK on monday, their success I saw as more of a function of a crappy opposition power play than a good PK on them. Looked very similar to the leafs pk...

If this were true up here, we seem to be the tonic for every PP that struggles this season.

Liferleafer 12-28-2011 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansfield (Post 41553563)
watching the marlies PK on monday, their success I saw as more of a function of a crappy opposition power play than a good PK on them. Looked very similar to the leafs pk...

True for that game, but their season total is better than 86%, so it has to be a little more.

nsleaf 12-28-2011 10:31 AM

If they can't kill the penalties, perhaps they should try taking less of them.

robdicks 12-28-2011 10:38 AM

see I know I am in the minority here, but I want us to be less aggressive on the PK.

I think we try to force it TOO much, and wind up having a defenseman go into a corner and a man is left wide open in front.

I think we need to let players do what they want on the perimeter and try to block shots. collapsing closes up most of the passing lanes and IMO limits shots to the outside. You are down a man, so you have to pick your poison, but I think collapsing in this era where you can't hook and hold, is the best defense on the PK.

MrMazola 12-28-2011 10:40 AM

Ron Wilson clearly wants to see if he can do the impossible by getting a team into the playoffs with the absolute worst PK in the league. Apparently this is a dream of his. That's probably part of the reason Giguere wasn't resigned. Why would he care whether Eakin's can run a decent Penalty kill? He *wants* the team to have an abysmal PK. Hopefully this is the last year we have to endure this ongoing experiment.

The CyNick 12-28-2011 11:23 AM

It makes a lot of sense to compare the AHL to the NHL.

I'm sure the things that work on a player at the skill level of Luca Caputi work the same on guys like Crosby and Stamkos.

Keep bringing logical things to the table guys.


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