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-   -   TSN: Alex Burrows Trending Downwards... in PIMs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1065041)

Wetcoaster 12-28-2011 02:49 PM

Alex Burrows Trending Downwards... in PIMs
 
Alex Burrows PIMs are dropping steadily each year and his play improves.

Maybe not Stan Mikita territory who went from one of the league leaders in penalty minutes (146 PIMS in 1963-64 and 154 in 1964-65) to a Lady Byng winner in in 1967 (12 PIMs) and 1968 (14 PIMs) as well as four Art Ross trophies (1964, 1965, 1967 and 1968) and two Harts (1967 and 1968).

Alex Burrows has transformed his game from third line grinder to one of the top two-way wingers on the highest scoring line in the NHL and now is looking to reduce his PIMs.

2007-08 - 179 PIMs 82GP 12G 19A 31Pts

2008-09 - 150 PIMS 82GP 28G 23A 51Pts

2009-10 - 121 PIMs 82GP 35G 32A 67Pts

2010-11 - 77 PIMs 72GP 26G 22A 48Pts

And this season?

2011-12 - 24 PIMs 34GP 14G 9A 23Pts

That puts him on a pace for:
56 PIMs 79GP 32G 21A 53Pts

And he leads the team with 5 GWG - Henrik has 4. That ties Alex for second in the NHL with Claude Giroux and one behind the 6 GWG by Franzen. He also leads the Canuck forwards in +/- at +16... three more than Henrik's +13.

NHL.com continues to insist on listing him as left wing (he plays right but shoots left and Daniel is the left winger on the line).

It seems Burrows is one of the best kept secrets and vastly underrated by fans across the league thanks to the smear campaign and character assassination BY HNIC's Rompin' Ronnie the Drunk Air Guitarist... the on-ice official's friend.

Following the recent 5-3 win over the Leafs here is what last year's Art Ross winner had to say - “He's the reason we are good as a line and he's the reason we are producing offensively,” Daniel Sedin said of Burrows. “I hope everyone gives him enough credit; we certainly do.”

And the strategy to stay out of the penalty box?
"Last year, that's where it all started," said Burrows. "This year is just following up on that. We've showed we're a much better team when we play five on five. I've been told and I feel I'm a better factor if I'm on the ice (rather) than in the penalty box."
...
Coach Alain Vigneault said Burrows -- who plays on the power play and kills penalties -- is doing a good job of avoiding scrums after the whistle.

"The only thing we talked about since last year with Alex was to try to focus on playing whistle to whistle," said Vigneault. "Play assertive but play whistle to whistle. He does that and he tries to be disciplined at the same time."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=383588

ZyggZagg 12-28-2011 03:23 PM

Heart and soul of this team. If Henrik hadn't been named captain, I would have liked to see Burrows as captain before Kesler. Vastly underrated and his path to the NHL makes it that much better, not to mention he plays hard every night and his teammates seem to love him. The Sedins look happier when Burrows scores than when they do. I hope at least other Canuck fans give him the credit he deserves but doesn't get from around the league.

Mr. Canucklehead 12-28-2011 03:27 PM

^Burrows will never be Captain unless he goes something like ten years between questionable on-ice incidents. His rapport with the officials is/would be non-existent at this point.

That said, he is a total heart-and-soul guy who has scored virtually every big goal for this team in the last few years. Always seems to come through in the clutch, is elite defensively, and hugely underrated offensively.

Potatoe1 12-28-2011 03:30 PM

It's going to be interesting to see what happens contract wise with Burrows.

The Canucks can start negotiating with him this summer and he should be looking at a contract which more then doubles his current salary.

Kind of a difficult situation because even though his numbers are grossly inflated by playing with Hank and Dank, he's still our 4th best forward and a huge part of the team.

Burr really hasn't made that much as an NHL player and this will likely be his last big deal. Does he pull an Ansen Carter and try to leverage his time with the Twins, or does he do the right thing and take a discount to keep playing here?

rye&ginger 12-28-2011 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatoe1 (Post 41563745)
It's going to be interesting to see what happens contract wise with Burrows.

The Canucks can start negotiating with him this summer and he should be looking at a contract which more then doubles his current salary.

Kind of a difficult situation because even though his numbers are grossly inflated by playing with Hank and Dank, he's still our 4th best forward and a huge part of the team.

Burr really hasn't made that much as an NHL player and this will likely be his last big deal. Does he pull an Ansen Carter and try to leverage his time with the Twins, or does he do the right thing and take a discount to keep playing here?


On his own I think he is a 15-25 goal scorer. hard to narrow it down any further given his best years are with the Sedins for the most part. He does score many great goals but also gets a fair share of tap ins, rebounts and defeletions which are more due to the Sedins wizards.

$3.5-4m caphit is proably a fair deal?

Canucker 12-28-2011 04:08 PM

I think there is more to Burrows than just being the benefactor of Sedinery. He plays exceptionally well wherever he is in the lineup. He might not score 35 goals without them but he's still probably over 20-25 and excellent on the PK, or whatever role they put him in. I think he'll likely get in the $3.5-4.25 range unless he goes for bigger dollars elsewhere.

rye&ginger 12-28-2011 04:15 PM

If you want to look at team value, he is comparable to KB3 perhaps. so $4.5m caphit on a longer deal may not be a bad deal.

jd22 12-28-2011 04:29 PM

Honestly for his sake I would be happy giving him whatever he wants (within reason), IE 5 or under. He deserves it.

However, I feel it'll shake down to a 3 - 5 year at 3.25 or 3.5.

yapperface 12-28-2011 04:35 PM

OT but Henrik is the perfect captain for this team. Burrows and Kesler are more effective when they don't have to worry about pissing people off. The Sedins are well respected around the league (not in the media, but I don't think it's trickled down.)

Jevo 12-28-2011 04:40 PM

When he signed his contract in 09 after his breakout season with the Sedins, he signed at only 2 mil despite scoring 28 goals and 51 points, because in hos own words, he's nothing more than a glorified 3rd liner in a good position, so he should be payed like one. Hopefully he still feels the same way in a year and half.

Cocoa Crisp 12-28-2011 04:43 PM

I can't see Burrows getting a 4.5M contract of any length. For one, it wouldn't be worth it. Two, he'd have to play some serious brinksmanship to have that kind of figure on the table and if his previous contract is any indication, he's just not that kind of person. Three, rightly or wrongly, his reputation as the other guy on the Sedin line is going to hurt his market value around the league, lessening his bargaining power.

3.5M, 4 years if he's lucky.

thepuckmonster 12-28-2011 04:52 PM

Give him a 15mil/4 year contract, even 16mil. Gillis obviously sees him as a core player and now that he's followed up his breakout with great numbers, he'll reward him.

Barney Gumble 12-28-2011 04:59 PM

Can never have enough guys like Burrows or Higgins on a team.

Hielo Grande 12-28-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatoe1 (Post 41563745)
It's going to be interesting to see what happens contract wise with Burrows.

The Canucks can start negotiating with him this summer and he should be looking at a contract which more then doubles his current salary.

Kind of a difficult situation because even though his numbers are grossly inflated by playing with Hank and Dank, he's still our 4th best forward and a huge part of the team.

Burr really hasn't made that much as an NHL player and this will likely be his last big deal. Does he pull an Ansen Carter and try to leverage his time with the Twins, or does he do the right thing and take a discount to keep playing here?

“He's the reason we are good as a line and he's the reason we are producing offensively,” Daniel Sedin said of Burrows. “I hope everyone gives him enough credit; we certainly do.”
IMO it's pretty foolish to compare Burrows to Anson Carter. Certainly the Sedins don't. They credit him for their goal production and they did win back to back scoring titles with him on thier line.

Alex took at least a third less than he could have received on the open market to stay with the Canucks and get long-term security (four year). Some said he could have received $4m yet he took $2m to stay in Vancouver. That signing sparked much discussion about hometown discounts with other players.

In addition to his offensive skills with the Sedins he elevates Kessler's game when moved to that line and he is one of the league's best two-way players and penalty killers. His drive and determination make the whole team better.

I know business is business, but I think he should be rewarded for past service as well as for the upcoming term. It remains to be seen whether front end loaded contacts will be arounnd when he resigns, but if so give the guy his due. It will only enhance the organization's reputation as top rated; PR money well spent.

El Duderino 12-28-2011 05:19 PM

I think a 4 year $12 million deal would be fair to both sides. Or perhaps a 2 year $8 million deal.

Barney Gumble 12-28-2011 05:34 PM

Carter could score goals but Burrows is also strong defensively which makes the line far more effective. Carter's play without the puck wasn't noteworthy.

Royal Canuck 12-28-2011 05:50 PM

Burr has been my favorite Canuck since Naslund left. Plays with grit, backchecks hard and never gives up, my kinda hockey player.

Potatoe1 12-28-2011 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielo Grande (Post 41568771)
“He's the reason we are good as a line and he's the reason we are producing offensively,” Daniel Sedin said of Burrows. “I hope everyone gives him enough credit; we certainly do.”
IMO it's pretty foolish to compare Burrows to Anson Carter.

That's hardly what I was doing....

However, if he tries to "max out" his salary based on the stats he posted with the twins (i.e. 4.5+) then the comparison would be quite valid.


Quote:

I think a 4 year $12 million deal would be fair to both sides. Or perhaps a 2 year $8 million deal.
A 4 year extension takes him to 35.

I love Burr but he doesn't strike me as the type who will still be effective in his mid 30's.

Hielo Grande 12-28-2011 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatoe1 (Post 41570661)
That's hardly what I was doing....

However, if he tries to "max out" his salary based on the stats he posted with the twins (i.e. 4.5+) then the comparison would be quite valid.

.

In order for any comparison to be valid you would have to acknowledge that Carter was as good a backchecker, penalty killer, passer and team-first player as Burrows. I don't believe he was. I believe Carter could only watch Burrows with envy.

Do you not think Burrows could get $4.5-5m as an UFA? How much does Booth get and is he as good and as versatile? I think you underestimate Burrows. He is much more than guy cashing in on Sedins's passing, but as I stated in my original post it is my opinion. Obviously yours differs.

Potatoe1 12-28-2011 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielo Grande (Post 41572171)
In order for any comparison to be valid you would have to acknowledge that Carter was as good a backchecker, penalty killer, passer and team-first player as Burrows. I don't believe he was. I believe Carter could only watch Burrows with envy.

Do you not think Burrows could get $4.5-5m as an UFA? How much does Booth get and is he as good and as versatile? I think you underestimate Burrows. He is much more than guy cashing in on Sedins's passing, but as I stated in my original post it is my opinion. Obviously yours differs.

Wow...

I never said Burrows and Carter were the same type or quality of player.

What I said was that both had their stats inflated by the Sedins.

Try to read what I actually said before responding again.

Reverend Mayhem 12-28-2011 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatoe1 (Post 41574249)
Wow...

I never said Burrows and Carter were the same type or quality of player.

What I said was that both had their stats inflated by the Sedins.

Try to read what I actually said before responding again.

The difference is Burrows also makes the Sedins better players as well.

Carter was just "leaching" off the Sedins.

The Gourmet 12-28-2011 07:54 PM

By the time Burrows signs his next contract, and at the rate that salaries are growing season by season, a contract in the $4-4.5 million range would be fair.

If Ville Leino makes $4.5 million a season, then Burrows will make at least $4 million in two years.

serge2k 12-28-2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead (Post 41563621)
^Burrows will never be Captain unless he goes something like ten years between questionable on-ice incidents. His rapport with the officials is/would be non-existent at this point.

That said, he is a total heart-and-soul guy who has scored virtually every big goal for this team in the last few years. Always seems to come through in the clutch, is elite defensively, and hugely underrated offensively.

Meh, Sedin's get no respect from the officials anyway.

Hielo Grande 12-28-2011 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatoe1 (Post 41574249)
Wow...

I never said Burrows and Carter were the same type or quality of player.

What I said was that both had their stats inflated by the Sedins.

Try to read what I actually said before responding again.

This is what you wrote:
"Does he pull an Ansen Carter and try to leverage his time with the Twins..."You're making the comparison there.

You also wrote:
if he tries to "max out" his salary based on the stats he posted with the twins (i.e. 4.5+) then the comparison would be quite valid.

So you see I read what you wrote, in fact I quoted it in my earlier posts. To summarize you said a comparison would be valid if Burrows tries to get a contract based on production with the Sedins. I disagree. I said you cannot compare the two players' merits in negotiating a contract with or without the Sedins.

Jay Cee 12-28-2011 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroticBakery (Post 41577011)
By the time Burrows signs his next contract, and at the rate that salaries are growing season by season, a contract in the $4-4.5 million range would be fair.

If Ville Leino makes $4.5 million a season, then Burrows will make at least $4 million in two years.

That's the reality of it.

If an organization wants to be known for its appeal to players who make a sacrifice, if a player rips himself off, you don't really have the choice to play hard ball again if he is part of your core who you want with the team indefinitely, which Burrows absolutely is.

I don't see Burrows settling for nearly as much under market value again, which goes without saying. I think your guesstimate is probably pretty good, but he probably gets a term that you aren't comfortable with. Maybe 4/4ish.


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