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-   -   At what point does Kopitar take responsibility? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1066593)

Bandit 12-30-2011 12:59 PM

At what point does Kopitar take responsibility?
 
First, let me say that I love Kopitar, he's one of my favorite all time Kings. He's talented, hardworking, humble, and has a great attitude towards the game, the media and the fans. At what point though does he play like the high paid, first line center that he is?

I had been thinking about bringing this up for a few games now, and was surprised to hear Jim Fox finally casually mention last night that Kopitar has no goals in (now) 17 games straight. Before that, I hadn't seen anyone, either here or in the media, so much as mention the fact that our highest paid forward has gone nearly half the season without scoring a goal.

That is just completely unacceptable.

At the start of the year, Kopitar was attacking the middle of the ice, taking the puck to the slot and asserting himself as a dominant offensive weapon. In the last month he's gone back to floating around the perimeter, taking whatever space the defense funnels him into instead of being aggressive and dynamic. If Kopitar had scored just 4 or 5 goals in the last 17 games, which is a very attainable number for a player of his caliber, the Kings could easily have 2-3 more wins.

He wears a letter, he's the highest paid forward on the team, when is he going to play like it?

Also, people don't want to believe it, but:

http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/11/27...-move-to-left/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Hammond on November 27th
Now, Brown also goes back to a line with center Anze Kopitar

I still don't give Kopitar a free pass because of this, but it is so obvious that these two do not belong on the ice together it boggles the mind that the coaches don't see it.

Jason Lewis 12-30-2011 01:04 PM

He is on pace for just over 20 goals which would be his all time low. And around 70-75 points too low for what we pay him.

But at the same time, I don't think Kopitar takes a lot of blame because there are many other things wrong on this team not named Anze Kopitar.

Yea he needs to step it up...but on the list of people who are not playing the way they should..Kopitar comes up real low on that list. Not to say he shouldn't be playing better...but...I dunno my list?


Williams
Penner
Stoll
Gagne
Lewis
Doughty
Johnson
Kopitar <<<<<

KingsFan7824 12-30-2011 01:23 PM

His faceoffs are a sad to watch as well. He has a decent %, but this is one of the times where the numbers can be misleading. Part of the problem on the PP is that the Kings lose far more opening faceoffs in the offensive zone than they win. That knocks 20 or 30 seconds off the clock right away. Then they're left with having to pass the puck up into the zone, and we see how passing works with this team.

It's not just Kopitar though. Richards isn't much better when it comes to faceoffs. They both just sort of swings their sticks lightly in the air.

0 goals in the last 17 games. 2 goals in the last 24 games. He seems to do it every year. He starts out on fire, can then go 2 or 3 months with nothing, then finishes the year strong. So far, it's been working to some extent. The Kings have managed to make the playoffs even with that kind of production. If Kopitar showed up offensively in the middle part of the year though, he could be a consistent 35 goal guy. The Kings might win a few more games. They could go into the playoffs as a higher seed.

Kopitar is just one of the many offensive problems on this team.

Bad Will Hunting 12-30-2011 01:24 PM

Kopitar needs to do something different to break out of this slump.
He either needs to drove home backwards from practice or have sex with a badger

TonySCV 12-30-2011 01:29 PM

While I think the goal scoring drought aspect of this rant on Kopitar needs to be tempered a bit this year because the entire team is in one at the moment, Kopitar has a history every season of starting off strong, going in to a 25 or so game hibernation, and then coming alive again in the last 40 games.

The one good thing is, he's durable, so we actually have full seasons of data to look back on for comparisons.

This slump is an annual event with Kopitar. He'll start digging himself out around the 40-45 game mark.

Jason Lewis 12-30-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 41659137)
While I think the goal scoring drought aspect of this rant on Kopitar needs to be tempered a bit this year because the entire team is in one at the moment, Kopitar has a history every season of starting off strong, going in to a 25 or so game hibernation, and then coming alive again in the last 40 games.

The one good thing is, he's durable, so we actually have full seasons of data to look back on for comparisons.

This slump is an annual event with Kopitar. He'll start digging himself out around the 40-45 game mark.

And that mark will come in the midst of this coming homestand. That would be nice.

bobafettish* 12-30-2011 02:02 PM

as soon as DL does. 6 years later Richardson and Brown...... UNACCEPTABLE.

KINGS17 12-30-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 41659137)
While I think the goal scoring drought aspect of this rant on Kopitar needs to be tempered a bit this year because the entire team is in one at the moment, Kopitar has a history every season of starting off strong, going in to a 25 or so game hibernation, and then coming alive again in the last 40 games.

The one good thing is, he's durable, so we actually have full seasons of data to look back on for comparisons.

This slump is an annual event with Kopitar. He'll start digging himself out around the 40-45 game mark.

Kind of BS though for a player that is now a vet making $6.8M in cap hit and is supposed to be the face of the franchise.

If this was Toronto, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, or Chicago he would be hearing it after every game from the media.

Every player has slumps, but this crap repeated season after season is getting old. If Kopitar doesn't shake this pattern the Kings will have a tough time being a high playoff seed in any season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 41660249)
as soon as DL does. 6 years later Richardson and Brown...... UNACCEPTABLE.

As soon as DL does what? WTH does being on a line with Brown and Richardson have to do with Kopitar's lack of willpower to take the puck to the center of the ice in the attacking zone?

TonySCV 12-30-2011 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 41660301)
Kind of BS though for a player that is now a vet making $6.8M in cap hit and is supposed to be the face of the franchise.

If this was Toronto, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, or Chicago he would be hearing it after every game from the media.

Every player has slumps, but this crap repeated season after season is getting old. If Kopitar doesn't shake this pattern the Kings will have a tough time being a high playoff seed in any season.

You take the good with the bad with any player. Kopitar's "good" outweighs his "bad", even factoring in this annual mid-season rest stop.

Muzzinga 12-30-2011 02:08 PM

he is naturally more of a playmaker than a goalscorer, so he is always going to go through long goal scoring slumps, like every other player that is a better passer than sniper. I dont mind him slumping because he is still picking up assists with only 1 winger on his line and isnt conceding when on the ice

TonySCV 12-30-2011 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 41660249)
as soon as DL does. 6 years later Richardson and Brown...... UNACCEPTABLE.

Talk about a misplaced rant. Wrong thread?

Duc620 12-30-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo (Post 41658971)
... He either needs to drove home backwards from practice or have sex with a badger

... what hottie do you know from Wisconsin?

The Tikkanen 12-30-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 41660301)
Kind of BS though for a player that is now a vet making $6.8M in cap hit and is supposed to be the face of the franchise.

If this was Toronto, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, or Chicago he would be hearing it after every game from the media.

Every player has slumps, but this crap repeated season after season is getting old. If Kopitar doesn't shake this pattern the Kings will have a tough time being a high playoff seed in any season.



As soon as DL does what? WTH does being on a line with Brown and Richardson have to do with Kopitar's lack of willpower to take the puck to the center of the ice in the attacking zone?

Agreed. This goes with the whole accountability thing. Players like Brown and Kopitar are allowed to go through prolonged slumps and they never have to face the fire. Once King players leave the rink they can blend into society because in LA nobody knows who they are. Not the case in the bigger markets. It's still too easy to play here.

Jason Lewis 12-30-2011 02:14 PM

.....seriously.



I swear some of the DL hate is such grasping at straws it's terrible.

bobafettish* 12-30-2011 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 41660301)

As soon as DL does what? WTH does being on a line with Brown and Richardson have to do with Kopitar's lack of willpower to take the puck to the center of the ice in the attacking zone?

Are you serious? Kopitar leads most forwards in TOI that are in the top at scoring. He gets heavy PK time and exerts alot of energy playing a 2 way game. I can understand why a lot of nights he looks tired out there. He literally gets no help on the offensive end, and when he does make a play for Riche or Brown they rarely finish.

Go ahead defned DL to the death. but if youre happy with Riche and Brown as his wingers then i don't know what to say.

Jason Lewis 12-30-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 41660799)
Are you serious? Kopitar leads most forwards in TOI that are in the top at scoring. He gets heavy PK time and exerts alot of energy playing a 2 way game. I can understand why a lot of nights he looks tired out there. He literally gets no help on the offensive end, and when he does make a play for Riche or Brown they rarely finish.

Go ahead defned DL to the death. but if youre happy with Riche and Brown as his wingers then i don't know what to say.

Hey champ, Dustin Brown has 9 goals. One fewer then Kopitar.


That's not a big difference considering you talk about Brown as if he has 0 goals in 17 games....oh wait that's Kopitar. My bad.

Ziggy Stardust 12-30-2011 02:27 PM

I'm going to attribute it to exhaustion. Every season it's the same damn pattern. Starts off hot out of the gate being among the league leaders in scoring, then he pulls off a disappearing act towards late November through December on. This has gone on with Kopitar for the past few seasons.

Notice how he doesn't use his size and strength to cut to the net now. He constantly plays the perimeter, taking low quality shots. Sometimes I think they play Kopitar too much.

kingsfan 12-30-2011 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit (Post 41658059)
Before that, I hadn't seen anyone, either here or in the media, so much as mention the fact that our highest paid forward has gone nearly half the season without scoring a goal.

At least speak the truth. Since when is 17 games nearly half the season? It's not even a quarter of the season. Stop embellishing, it makes you look dumb.

No one is happy that Kopitar is goalless in 17 games, but frankly I'm not nearly as concerned as others are. He's still 21st in league scoring and has 11 assists in those 17 games. Not great, but not brutal. I'm more focused on the other guys who are letting us down, mainly Gagne (17 games, 4 assists -7) and Williams (29 games, 2 goals).

Brown is Brown, and once again on pace for 20 goals (a little below the 24 he's had in recent years) Kopitar and Richards will eventually get going and even with his slump, Kopitar isn't far off career numbers. Even Penner has been working hard, the pucks not going in the net. When was the last time you seen Gagne or Williams in the highlights? I don't remember for Williams at all, and Gagne's last time (and first in a long time) was when he got hurt the other day.

I don't blame Kopitar. It's hard to score when Richards is out and the rest of the top two lines are handling the puck like it's a grenade.

kingsfan 12-30-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 41660799)
Are you serious? Kopitar leads most forwards in TOI that are in the top at scoring. He gets heavy PK time and exerts alot of energy playing a 2 way game. I can understand why a lot of nights he looks tired out there. He literally gets no help on the offensive end, and when he does make a play for Riche or Brown they rarely finish.

Go ahead defned DL to the death. but if youre happy with Riche and Brown as his wingers then i don't know what to say.

So the coaches play Kopitar a lot and give him PK time and this is DL's fault? What more do you want DL to do? He added Richards at centre and had what everyone thought was at least a decent 3rd line C in Stoll. If he's being played to much, blame the coaches. Under Darryl, Kopi has played a max of 24:14 a game. He played more than that eight times under Murray/Stevens including two games of over 26 minutes. How is that DL's fault?

Thrice 12-30-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 41661387)
At least speak the truth. Since when is 17 games nearly half the season? It's not even a quarter of the season. Stop embellishing, it makes you look dumb.

No one is happy that Kopitar is goalless in 17 games, but frankly I'm not nearly as concerned as others are. He's still 21st in league scoring and has 11 assists in those 17 games. Not great, but not brutal. I'm more focused on the other guys who are letting us down, mainly Gagne (17 games, 4 assists -7) and Williams (29 games, 2 goals).

Brown is Brown, and once again on pace for 20 goals (a little below the 24 he's had in recent years) Kopitar and Richards will eventually get going and even with his slump, Kopitar isn't far off career numbers. Even Penner has been working hard, the pucks not going in the net. When was the last time you seen Gagne or Williams in the highlights? I don't remember for Williams at all, and Gagne's last time (and first in a long time) was when he got hurt the other day.

I don't blame Kopitar. It's hard to score when Richards is out and the rest of the top two lines are handling the puck like it's a grenade.

The Kings have played 38 games this season. 17 is nearly half of that.

KINGS17 12-30-2011 02:46 PM

I wouldn't play Kopitar on the PK at all anymore just to eliminate one of his excuses.

And the injury thing? I didn't realize he broke his ankle every season around mid-November for the last six years.

And no, you don't take the bad with the good when a guy is making $6.8M a season. He needs to step it up.

Jason Lewis 12-30-2011 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 41661679)
So the coaches play Kopitar a lot and give him PK time and this is DL's fault? What more do you want DL to do? He added Richards at centre and had what everyone thought was at least a decent 3rd line C in Stoll. If he's being played to much, blame the coaches. Under Darryl, Kopi has played a max of 24:14 a game. He played more than that eight times under Murray/Stevens including two games of over 26 minutes. How is that DL's fault?

Just like TOMD and PSP....the DL hate hath no reason or relent.


Just like Vancouver fans blaming Bettman for everything.

Oh we lost a key faceoff in our own zone. ****ING BETTMAN REFS DON'T KNOW HOW TO DROP THE PUCK.

Kopitar plays too many minutes a game. ****ING DEAN LOMBARDI.

Nex06 12-30-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 (Post 41658937)
His faceoffs are a sad to watch as well. He has a decent %, but this is one of the times where the numbers can be misleading.

Yeah, that's BS. Numbers are not misleading, it is just you misleading yourself.

Quote:

Part of the problem on the PP is that the Kings lose far more opening faceoffs in the offensive zone than they win. That knocks 20 or 30 seconds off the clock right away. Then they're left with having to pass the puck up into the zone, and we see how passing works with this team.
You have any more fairy tales to share with us? If I tell you that you simply don't realize that faceoffs start at 50% and then better players win slightly more than that and worse players lose slightly more than that, what will you reply? If I tell you that the only reason you have been misleading yourself is, that you notice only faceoffs lost and not also the faceoffs won, what will you reply? You will reply that of course there is NO way you could have been wrong.

Unfortunately for you there are official stats for PP faceoffs taken. You know what? Kings have won more faceoffs than lost. Kopitar took 110 PP faceoffs and won 60 of them. I will do the math for you, 60/100 =0.545 - which is even MORE than he wins overall.

TonySCV 12-30-2011 04:47 PM

Everyone done flaming each other now? I hope so. You guys know better and I'm not in the mood to hand out infractions on NYE weekend.

You can make your point without disparaging other posters and show each other some respect in the process.

PSP 12-30-2011 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaygokings (Post 41662203)
Just like TOMD and PSP....the DL hate hath no reason or relent.

For the record, I haven't been able to watch either of the last 2 games - but it sounds like you are willing to blame everyone BUT DL.

If the players that he signed to serious big money contracts aren't producing, is it really not his fault at all? I thought that player personnel decisions were part of his responsibility - if they aren't producing, doesn't he hold some of the blame for choosing them?


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