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dbow2019 01-06-2012 06:54 PM

Help me settle an argument
 
My brother and I have been going back and forth recently about whether or not Kimmo Timonen is a number 1 defenseman on a Stanley Cup team

I say, without question, yes...I can only name about 10 or so guys who are (arguably) better then him

However he thinks that a number 1 defenseman must be a complete shutdown guy who can also score goals...He mentions guys like Pronger, Chara, Lidstrom, etc

So my question to you guys is, is Timonen a number 1 defenseman on a Stanley cup team?

bryzgalovsky* 01-06-2012 07:03 PM

No, he's a number 1 defenseman on a team that isn't likely to even make it to the Stanley Cup unless Ilya Bryzgalov and Sergei Bobrovsky magically stop sucking.



But seriously, he's really good.

Left Circle OneTimer 01-06-2012 07:05 PM

No hes not. There are about 10 dmen better than him overall so id say hes not.

dingbathero 01-06-2012 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer (Post 42025543)
No hes not. There are about 10 dmen better than him overall so id say hes not.

Agree and I'd say he is Top 20 in the league - as it stands now he is the TOP on OUR team, whether or not we are a Stanley Cup team remains to be seen.

ayshplaysh 01-06-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer (Post 42025543)
No hes not. There are about 10 dmen better than him overall so id say hes not.

So because he is not among the 10 best in the league by your standards, he is not a number 1 d-man? :huh:

BrindamoursNose 01-06-2012 07:14 PM

He's a #1, absolutely. HOWEVER, he's about a year or so away from being able to. He's oldddddddd. You don't want to push that.

DrinkFightFlyers 01-06-2012 07:15 PM

It's all relative, really. I wouldn't say he is a top 10 defender in the league, but I could a see a team winning the Cup with him as their top defender. I could probably think of at least 15 defenseman better than him, but if the defense is deep enough I see no reason he couldn't be #1 on a Cup team.

SgtJoseph 01-07-2012 09:58 AM

Tough call on this one......I will say that for his short size and stature, he is pound for pound one of the best in this league. Kimmo has a ton of heart like Hartnell, and those type players are the ones that can carry a club to a Cup.Kimmo plays pretty big for a small guy.Took my daughter up to Philly last year for a game, and she was shocked at how small Kimmo was when she saw him up close during warm -ups....She thought he was a much bigger player the way he plays.I think our club has as good a chance as any including Boston to win the cup this season.....Yes we will need quality goal tending, but i think Kimmo and Coby and Mez can step up and get the job done.....

Flyotes 01-07-2012 11:31 AM

This team could win the Stanley Cup, although I don't love the chances without Pronger. That being said, if this team came together in the right way and got hot (Bryz included), with Kimmo still as #1, they could win the SC. It's unlikely, but not so much that I would call it highly unlikely. So, I would argue in your favor.

To pretend that having Lidstrom or Pronger is a necessary condition of winning the cup is wrong. A lot of player combinations get you there, just some are better than others.

phlocky 01-07-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbow2019 (Post 42025145)
My brother and I have been going back and forth recently about whether or not Kimmo Timonen is a number 1 defenseman on a Stanley Cup team

I say, without question, yes...I can only name about 10 or so guys who are (arguably) better then him

However he thinks that a number 1 defenseman must be a complete shutdown guy who can also score goals...He mentions guys like Pronger, Chara, Lidstrom, etc

So my question to you guys is, is Timonen a number 1 defenseman on a Stanley cup team?


Well, technically because he's never actually WPN a stanley cup then by definition he is NOT a #1 dman on a SC winning team, he's not even a bottom pairing dman on a bottom pairing team. However, he IS good enough to be the best dman on a SC team IF the rest of the team does their jobs too.

Just ask your brother if he thinks Scott Neidermeyer was a true #1 dman or not. Timonen is very much like him and Meids won multiple SC's on two different teams. Neids was far from the bruising shut down dman like Chara/Pronger (or even like Lidstrom in the defensive zone) that your brother is claiming you need to be but he was definitely the key defensive cog on his SC winning teams (unless your brother believes that the only reason SN won any cups at all was because he had Marty B and Scott Stevens and Pronger in LA).

Also, by your brothers premiss then Weber should have won the cup by now too right???

CS 01-07-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbow2019 (Post 42025145)
My brother and I have been going back and forth recently about whether or not Kimmo Timonen is a number 1 defenseman on a Stanley Cup team

Smack him before he angers the Finnish God of Defense.

Such blasphemy...

WeekendAtBernies 01-07-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 42055207)
Smack him before he angers the Finnish God of Defense.

Such blasphemy...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/54...immoTeaser.jpg

BernieParent 01-07-2012 01:54 PM

Timonen - Coburn is a top-15 first pairing, but they would need a much better second pairing to go deep in the playoffs.

Spongolium* 01-07-2012 02:01 PM

You would have to have a really good 2nd and 3rd pair for it to be capable of winning a SC.

DrHamburg 01-07-2012 05:37 PM

I would so no. He is a "1A" defensemen. He can never be a true #1 because of his size he will never be able to consistently match up over a 7 game series against a team stacked with big forwards like Boston. But he is still amazing...

sa cyred 01-07-2012 06:16 PM

I think he is. I rate him within the top 15 defenders in the league between 10-15 (some of the current guys in the top 10 are still there even if they havent played well in the past year or so)

There are only a few teams out there where he wouldnt be their number one defender.


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