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-   -   Harts/G/Jagr (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1077311)

flyersguy33* 01-10-2012 09:41 PM

Harts/G/Jagr
 
This line is just terrible in our defensive zone, so many poor turnovers. Its scary watching them in our own zone. They look like chickens running around with their heads cut off. I cringe when I see them in our D zone trying to protect a one goal lead.

hof2120 01-10-2012 09:43 PM

Pretty much the whole team's pretty terrible in our own zone right now, to be honest.

NewYorkFlyerFan 01-10-2012 09:45 PM

Well they have about 2 1/2 players on the line right now. Jagr looks awful. He needs to sit out and get 100%

Terence Peterman 01-10-2012 09:52 PM

Putting it on Jagr is the easy solution. That's not the biggest problem though.

Kaktus* 01-10-2012 09:52 PM

One of the best lines in hockey despite looking average for a few games.

Terence Peterman 01-10-2012 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitroglycerin (Post 42270345)
One of the best lines in hockey despite looking average for a few games.

In the other end, sure.

Beef Invictus 01-10-2012 09:58 PM

They've never been that great defensively. Hartnell is the best defensive player on that line.

MsWoof 01-10-2012 11:49 PM

Jagr should sit till he's 100%. Let one of the young guns move up in his place.

Ryker 01-11-2012 01:49 AM

Yeah, Jagr definitely looked bad both tonight and the other day against Ottawa. I'm not going to speculate on reasons for it, but usually he's a beast on the puck, whereas he was quite weak tonight. You could see that right from the get-go when he was outmuscled by Sutter, with the latter then drawing the penalty on him. His passes were also off, and most often didn't connect, but I do think his game is going to pick up again as the season progresses.

kimmofan44 01-11-2012 07:02 AM

one of the biggest problems imo is that every team in the league has seen, and now employed, the same strategy that new york uses to try and shut giroux and his line mates down. all of the points in the past 3 games have come from every line but the 1st, harry z has 2 more points than g in that stretch and he sat out the 2nd sens game! until lavy figures out what to do to combat the g line shut down this team is really going to pray they get fivepoints from rookies every night.

Left Circle OneTimer 01-11-2012 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmofan44 (Post 42290189)
one of the biggest problems imo is that every team in the league has seen, and now employed, the same strategy that new york uses to try and shut giroux and his line mates down. all of the points in the past 3 games have come from every line but the 1st, harry z has 2 more points than g in that stretch and he sat out the 2nd sens game! until lavy figures out what to do to combat the g line shut down this team is really going to pray they get fivepoints from rookies every night.

Only thing i don't like about Lavy is that he never utilizes the last change at home. I mean its home advantage so use it! He always leaves the top line out there with the opposing teams best defensive pair.

JXC 01-11-2012 08:24 AM

Hartnell is a bad defensive player.

Giroux looks like he is still finding it.

Jagr looks injured.

But above all it appears to me is that there is no stressing of taking care of business in one's own end on this team. They appear to have no focus on defending.

BringBackStevens 01-11-2012 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JXC
Hartnell is a bad defensive player.

100% False. There goes JXC again, spewing nonsense

bp spec 01-11-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer (Post 42290345)
Only thing i don't like about Lavy is that he never utilizes the last change at home. I mean its home advantage so use it! He always leaves the top line out there with the opposing teams best defensive pair.

I agree on this, it's something that you should take advantage of. It's a waste putting our first and most productive line against the opponents strongest D. Let some other play them. Why not let Rinaldo, Simmonds and Z bang them up a little instead.

thelos 01-11-2012 09:19 AM

Imagine how bad it would be with JVR over Hartnell

kimmofan44 01-11-2012 09:48 AM

imo the fact that giroux had 2 shots on goal for his 21 minutes of ice time(one shot was in the first five seconds) is proof that teams are wise on how to defend against that line. i know jags might be hurt but they are still going to have to find a way to combat all this extra attention. don't get me wrong, i'm still super happy with g and his line mates but we can't have teams being able to shut them down come playoff time. 2 shots in 21 minutes are acceptable for bourdon or lilja but a little eyebrow raising when its giroux. harry z and couts manage more than that with 7 or 8 minutes. its just smething that i hope doesn't continue.

kimmofan44 01-11-2012 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmofan44 (Post 42292841)
imo the fact that giroux had 2 shots on goal for his 21 minutes of ice time(one shot was in the first five seconds) is proof that teams are wise on how to defend against that line. i know jags might be hurt but they are still going to have to find a way to combat all this extra attention. don't get me wrong, i'm still super happy with g and his line mates but we can't have teams being able to shut them down come playoff time. 2 shots in 21 minutes are acceptable for bourdon or lilja but a little eyebrow raising when its giroux. harry z and couts manage more than that with 7 or 8 minutes. its just smething that i hope doesn't continue.

just to further my point harry z had exactly 7 min last night and had 4 shots and an assist more than the entire g ine combined in less than half the ice time(jags 19 min 1 shot hartsey 20 mn 0 shots both and g had pp time)

mirimon 01-11-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmofan44 (Post 42292841)
imo the fact that giroux had 2 shots on goal for his 21 minutes of ice time(one shot was in the first five seconds) is proof that teams are wise on how to defend against that line. i know jags might be hurt but they are still going to have to find a way to combat all this extra attention. don't get me wrong, i'm still super happy with g and his line mates but we can't have teams being able to shut them down come playoff time. 2 shots in 21 minutes are acceptable for bourdon or lilja but a little eyebrow raising when its giroux. harry z and couts manage more than that with 7 or 8 minutes. its just smething that i hope doesn't continue.

Eh, Giroux has never been much of a shooter. He's shooting a lot more this year than he's done previously and is only at about 2.8 shots per game.

I ragged a little bit on him yesterday, but I must give him credit for his faceoff wins in the dying minutes, they were huge and a sign of his compete level.

I don't think Jagr is fully fit, and while Giroux looked a little better than he did in the second Sens game I wouldn't be too surprised if he's been feeling a bit under the weather lately.

Until they can get things going again though, it would be nice if they started playing a little simpler game. Get the pucks on net, Hartnell will crash it somehow hopefully. Now they're looking to pass each other (not even looking where Hartnell or the defenders are half the time it appears) a bit too much.

chimrichalds18 01-11-2012 10:17 AM

To echo what a few others have said, you can see from watching them that they're not being as decisive and they're trying to do too much.

Both Jagr and Hartnell (more Jagr yesterday) were guilty of getting the puck and trying to get it to Giroux as he is the go-to guy. Giroux also look for Jagr a little too much.

Every line goes through this, so I'm not too worried. They should rest Jagr, though. He's clearly not 100% and there's no point in overworking him.

Suspended4Life 01-11-2012 10:28 AM

Agreed that Jagr doesn't look 100%.

I think the first line is trying too hard...making fancy passes, needless passes, trying to pass through traffic, trying to pass instead of taking a close-range shot - it just seems like they are trying to live up the hype they themselves created. That's why the other lines are producing right now, they go to the net and don't try to make highlight reel plays. I think once the big line bears down and goes back to playing their game, they'll get out of their funk.

Amateur Hour 01-11-2012 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmofan44 (Post 42290189)
one of the biggest problems imo is that every team in the league has seen, and now employed, the same strategy that new york uses to try and shut giroux and his line mates down. all of the points in the past 3 games have come from every line but the 1st, harry z has 2 more points than g in that stretch and he sat out the 2nd sens game! until lavy figures out what to do to combat the g line shut down this team is really going to pray they get fivepoints from rookies every night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer (Post 42290345)
Only thing i don't like about Lavy is that he never utilizes the last change at home. I mean its home advantage so use it! He always leaves the top line out there with the opposing teams best defensive pair.

I love Lavi's fire and demeanor, but he's waaaaaaaaaaaay too Andy Reid-like when it comes to being stubborn and refusing to make adjustments. It's a serious concern, and the mark of a coach who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. :help:

NamberSixthy8 01-11-2012 02:03 PM

From what I've seen so far, Flyers are struggling when Jagr is out of the line up or if he's playing injured. The chemistry on the first line without him seems to be non-existant that's why I'm afraid we would be knocked out the first round of playoff if he's not at his best.

mirimon 01-11-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamberSixthy8 (Post 42302311)
From what I've seen so far, Flyers are struggling when Jagr is out of the line up or if he's playing injured. The chemistry on the first line without him seems to be non-existant that's why I'm afraid we would be knocked out the first round of playoff if he's not at his best.

Hartnell-Giroux-Read looked pretty damn decent against Chicago. Giroux has had some pretty solid chemistry with JvR in the past. Missing Jagr/Not having a healthy Jagr would definitely be bad for us, but it wouldn't mean we won't stand a chance.

tuckrr 01-11-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Blaine (Post 42270243)
Putting it on Jagr is the easy solution. That's not the biggest problem though.

No, its the ONLY problem.

That line has dominated for the entire season.

Jagr looked ESPECIALLY strong backchecking this season, but since the groin injury he hasnt been backchecking nearly enough.

Thats it really.

I mean Hartnell could come deeper into our zone at times, but his style of play is cherrypicking/drawing defenders to him... which gives G + jagr space to break out.

Cmoneyflyguy 01-11-2012 03:58 PM

oh, are we hating this line now?
Cool


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