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-   -   Compliance buyout clause! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1082475)

Prongo 01-16-2012 09:52 PM

Compliance buyout clause!
 
Frank Seravalli tweeted about the amnesty clause in the new CBA. I have been thinking about this for some time now and who would we amnesty?

Pronger or Bryz.

https://twitter.com/#!/DNFlyers/stat...85127492468737

Quote:

Is it wrong to peg chances of amnesty clause in next CBA at 85 percent? Every team can find one. Players still get paid and become FA.
At this pace I would rather Amnesty Bryz, but that can quickly change if he plays extremely well. Also don't know if the Flyers would want to pay his remaining salary for the next 8 years without getting his services.

Pronger they can LTIR and have him come in for his physical every training camp. Although it might hurt the team somewhat I don't think it necessarily kills our off-season plans. Tocchet also thinks that Pronger may come back next year. I know it's not much but some people in the organization seem to think it's quite possible he makes a return.

If Bryz(I'm not a hater either, strong supporter hope he turns it around) keeps playing this way do you think they even consider buying out the contract if they have the chance to do so for nothing? If Bryz plays like the way he has this year for the next 18 months his contract will hurt our opportunity to resign BOB or go after another #1 goalie.

Was just looking for peoples opinions on the matter!

MountainHawk 01-16-2012 09:58 PM

I still think we would have to use it on Pronger. If you use it on Bryzgalov, you are throwing like $35M away, and Snider might not be willing to do that. Furthermore, if Pronger passes the concussion tests and get cleared to play, but decides he wants to retire, then we are screwed as there is no way to get it off the cap.

flyersguy33* 01-16-2012 10:22 PM

Pronger no question. Snider isnt going to look like a fool to use it on Bryz. He makes himself in the organization look dumb. With Pronger right now, you have no clue when, if ever, he'd come back. Sure you can LTIR him, but if you use the clause on him you dont have to worry about it in the summer, and if he does gets cleared and wants to retired, you are screwed with his cap hit.

WeekendAtBernies 01-16-2012 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainHawk (Post 42601287)
I still think we would have to use it on Pronger. If you use it on Bryzgalov, you are throwing like $35M away, and Snider might not be willing to do that. Furthermore, if Pronger passes the concussion tests and get cleared to play, but decides he wants to retire, then we are screwed as there is no way to get it off the cap.

There's no reason for Pronger to pass the concussion tests if he decides he wants to hang him up.

If Pronger decides he's done for his career no matter what, then he has two options:

1. Pass a concussion test, officially retire, leave millions upon millions of dollars on the table.

2. Don't take the concussion test, retire but not "officially" allowing the team to put him on LTIR, collect millions of dollars each and every year for the rest of the contract for doing nothing while sitting on a beach in Fiji drinking margaritas.

Which option would any sane, rational human being choose?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If Bryz continues to stink for the rest of the year and up till the point when the amnesty clause must be used and Bob continues to excel, then you 100% must use the amnesty clause on Bryzgalov. Because he has an NMC and there's no other way you can get his cap hit off your cap. Pronger on the other hand, there's been no problem w/ his play... he's been well worth his contract. And as long as he stays on LTIR, you don't actually lose anything other than off-season cap space.

If both Pronger and Bryz remain in their current states (Pronger injured and on LTIR) (Bryz is actually hurting the team at the moment IMO):
Pronger on LTIR >>>>> Bryzgalov healthy on your cap

If Pronger gets healthy and decides to play and Bryz still stinks:

Pronger healthy on your cap >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryzgalov healthy on your cap.

If Pronger (irrationally) officially retires and leaves money on the table and Bryz still stinks:

Pronger on your cap (not playing) > Bryzgalov healthy on your cap
Pronger is STILL better because his cap hit is lower and his contract doesn't go as far into the future.

Prongo 01-16-2012 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandlansd (Post 42603683)
There's no reason for Pronger to pass the concussion tests if he decides he wants to hang him up.

If Pronger decides he's done for his career no matter what, then he has two options:

1. Pass a concussion test, officially retire, leave millions upon millions of dollars on the table.

2. Don't take the concussion test, retire but not "officially" allowing the team to put him on LTIR, collect millions of dollars each and every year for the rest of the contract for doing nothing while sitting on a beach in Fiji drinking margaritas.

Which option would any sane, rational human being choose?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If Bryz continues to stink for the rest of the year and up till the point when the amnesty clause must be used and Bob continues to excel, then you 100% must use the amnesty clause on Bryzgalov. Because he has an NMC and there's no other way you can get his cap hit off your cap. Pronger on the other hand, there's been no problem w/ his play... he's been well worth his contract. And as long as he stays on LTIR, you don't actually lose anything other than off-season cap space.

If both Pronger and Bryz remain in their current states (Pronger injured and on LTIR) (Bryz is actually hurting the team at the moment IMO):
Pronger on LTIR >>>>> Bryzgalov healthy on your cap

If Pronger gets healthy and decides to play and Bryz still stinks:

Pronger healthy on your cap >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryzgalov healthy on your cap.

If Pronger (irrationally) officially retires and leaves money on the table and Bryz still stinks:

Pronger on your cap (not playing) > Bryzgalov healthy on your cap
Pronger is STILL better because his cap hit is lower and his contract doesn't go as far into the future.

This almost is excatly how I feel about the situation. Everything about the Fiji beach and margaritas haha(know you were joking). I want him coaching our prospects and younger nhl vets on D.

CS 01-16-2012 11:24 PM

I'm with Sand.

We can cut our losses with Bryz, work with Bob, and get a number 1 defenseman paid for with Bryz's money.

The ball's in Snider's court. If he's willing to toss out the money, it's his to toss out.

Megadelphia 01-16-2012 11:24 PM

So with this new clause we could buyout Bryz and NOT have any cap hit from him?

Prongo 01-16-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadelphia (Post 42607399)
So with this new clause we could buyout Bryz and NOT have any cap hit from him?

Yep. Of course it's a hypothetical but it's a real possibility.

Amateur Hour 01-16-2012 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 42607383)
I'm with Sand.

We can cut our losses with Bryz, work with Bob, and get a number 1 defenseman paid for with Bryz's money.

The ball's in Snider's court. If he's willing to toss out the money, it's his to toss out.

The sign of a smart businessman is the ability to swallow his pride and admit a mistake before it gets even worse. If this amnesty clause comes to fruition, how it's used will tell us a lot about Ed Snider.

GKJ 01-17-2012 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainHawk (Post 42601287)
I still think we would have to use it on Pronger. If you use it on Bryzgalov, you are throwing like $35M away, and Snider might not be willing to do that. Furthermore, if Pronger passes the concussion tests and get cleared to play, but decides he wants to retire, then we are screwed as there is no way to get it off the cap.

Chris Pronger is going to walk away from roughly $27M?

They're also not going to amnesty Bryz after 1 year. Could, should, maybe, whatever, won't happen. They're not going to give up on Bryz after 1 year.

SolidSnakeUS 01-17-2012 12:26 AM

I know it will eventually turn up somewhere on some team to do this, but this early, I will admit, even though Bryz has been very much less than exceptional, I would kinda feel bad for him. Don't know why. Just a thought...

KimiFerrari 01-17-2012 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 42610013)
Chris Pronger is going to walk away from roughly $27M?

They're also not going to amnesty Bryz after 1 year. Could, should, maybe, whatever, won't happen. They're not going to give up on Bryz after 1 year.

It would still be great to have that option, and dangle it over his head. Maybe that will wake him up.

StandingCow 01-17-2012 12:38 AM

How often do they get the amnesty? Every new season or until the last amnesty contract runs out?

Like GKJ said, they aren't gonna let bryz go after 1 poor year... now if it continues into next year... yea. They also aren't 100% on Pronger yet...

Prongo 01-17-2012 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandingCow (Post 42610825)
How often do they get the amnesty? Every new season or until the last amnesty contract runs out?

Like GKJ said, they aren't gonna let bryz go after 1 poor year... now if it continues into next year... yea. They also aren't 100% on Pronger yet...

I think it was just a one time thing back in 2005... they get to use it once on a player, but they can't resign that player if they use the buyout on them

There was a 5 day period I believe where the team could use it, I thought it was only a one time deal for each club

TYayo 01-17-2012 12:49 AM

I was going to post this in the main form but found this and maybe you guys know more about it than me..

Prongers contract...was it a part of the "35 +" rule

"The CBA also contains a 35-and-over rule, sometimes referred to as the Mogilny rule.[7] This rule states that if a player signs a multi-year deal when the player is 35 or older, starting in the second year of the contract, that amount will count towards the team's salary cap regardless of whether the player is on the active roster or not. This is designed to keep teams from signing older players to lucrative front-loaded contracts, thus saving cap room, in which there is no expectation the player will actually play in the latter years"

Would the Flyers be on the hook for him even if he retired? If the left him on the Roster as LTIR for the several years (IF he can't come back) would it be cap circumvention?

I know he wasn't front loaded or anything....but could this mess them up

Beef Invictus 01-17-2012 12:58 AM

Yeah, Pronger is 35+.

Edit: LTIR wouldn't really be circumvention because they'd still be on the hook for his salary in the offseason, which affects what they can do.

Prongo 01-17-2012 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TYayo (Post 42611165)
I was going to post this in the main form but found this and maybe you guys know more about it than me..

Prongers contract...was it a part of the "35 +" rule

"The CBA also contains a 35-and-over rule, sometimes referred to as the Mogilny rule.[7] This rule states that if a player signs a multi-year deal when the player is 35 or older, starting in the second year of the contract, that amount will count towards the team's salary cap regardless of whether the player is on the active roster or not. This is designed to keep teams from signing older players to lucrative front-loaded contracts, thus saving cap room, in which there is no expectation the player will actually play in the latter years"

Would the Flyers be on the hook for him even if he retired? If the left him on the Roster as LTIR for the several years (IF he can't come back) would it be cap circumvention?

I know he wasn't front loaded or anything....but could this mess them up

Yea the NHL has to approve of any LTIR activity im almost sure of. He would have to come to training camp and fail his physical to show he is not adequate to play the game. The real problem would be if he retired. He would leave over 27 million in the table in actual dollars but wouldn't have to face the media speculation and all that about him making his comeback. I believe he will LTIR for the duration of his contract if he can't comeback to collect the money he is owed. I think anyone would do that.

He affects the off-season cap where you can exceed by 10%. His contract would basically be the 10% or close to that we can exceed. I don't really think it that BIG of a problem but people around here have different opinions.

So all in all if he retires, he leaves money on the table, but we get stuck with his cap hit. If he LTIR's for the duration we only have to work around the money in our off-season and during the season with the daily cap calculator I believe.

GKJ 01-17-2012 01:05 AM

The 5-day period was the only period, but you could buy out as many people as you wanted. Flyers let go John LeClair and Tony Amonte.

Prongo 01-17-2012 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 42611591)
The 5-day period was the only period, but you could buy out as many people as you wanted. Flyers let go John LeClair and Tony Amonte.

Alright I just wasn't sure... I remember it was five but didn't know that it was more than one player. Thanks for clearing that up GKJ

BernieParent 01-17-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 42610013)
Chris Pronger is going to walk away from roughly $27M?

They're also not going to amnesty Bryz after 1 year. Could, should, maybe, whatever, won't happen. They're not going to give up on Bryz after 1 year.

If Snider was entertaining the idea of buying out Pronger, I'm 99% certain that he would find a good position for Pronger within the organization for a nice salary. Scouting, training, coaching if he was up to it, Chris Pronger wouldn't be just shown the door.

RJ8812 01-17-2012 02:47 PM

LOL @ the people who write Bryz off after playing half of a season

If we buy Bryz out, who do you want to replace him with? Bob? Bob hasn't even shown that he can be a #1 goalie yet. Everytime we give him the ball, he fails after a few games. I really like Bob, but he hasnt shown anything yet. Plus, he buckled in the playoffs. And there's no UFA goalie that will be avialable that's better than Bryz

If Pronger's status hasnt changed, meaning his career is likely over, we would be stupid not to buy him out.

bryzgalovsky* 01-17-2012 02:48 PM

the problem is

would any of this stuff even apply to people who signed contracts prior to the cba

i don't think so

RJ8812 01-17-2012 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky (Post 42630633)
the problem is

would any of this stuff even apply to people who signed contracts prior to the cba

i don't think so

why wouldnt it?

we bought out Amonte & LeClair, who both signed contracts before the new CBA

Devastate 01-17-2012 03:12 PM

We have bob for the next two years, makes no sense to buyout bryz after this year. You got until the end of next year to decide what direction we're taking.

I think Bryz WILL be a number 1 goalie before the year is over, i expect him to be a stud come march.

But should he be really bad over the next 1.5 years, maybe you do buy him out and give Bob the chance that hopefully by the end of next year he'll deserve.

One of our goalies will be gone by the end of next year, there's no arguing that.

MsWoof 01-17-2012 03:31 PM

Option #3 is Briere. He's virtually untradeable as he has an NTC clause and because of his personal situation as a parent who shares custody with his ex-wife who lives in the area. Since the playoffs vs Boston he's been quite bad. This season his defense is as bad as always, he continues to take dumb penalties and his production hasn't been great. He's on the downside of his career and has a few years left on his hefty contract.


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