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-   -   Alex Galchenyuk OVER Mikhail Grigorenko! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1082781)

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 08:54 AM

Alex Galchenyuk OVER Mikhail Grigorenko!
 
I've been a competitive hockey player (played until juniors) and constant fan of the game for years, and for the life of me I can't see what's so special about Grigorenko. Let me clarify, there is no doubt in my mind he is a round 1 candidate, but top 3 is pushing it.

Can someone please elaborate why he is valued at a lock for top 3? I personally see more potential and skill from Alex Galchenyuk (smoother skater - more fluent)..

Thanks

Fulcrum 01-17-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42617703)
I've been a competitive hockey player (played until juniors) and constant fan of the game for years, and for the life of me I can't see what's so special about Grigorenko. Let me clarify, there is no doubt in my mind he is a round 1 candidate, but top 3 is pushing it.

Can someone please elaborate why he is valued at a lock for top 3? I personally see more potential and skill from Alex Galchenyuk (smoother skater - more fluent)..

Thanks

What games, tournaments are you basing your opinions on?

Are you considering that he is a rookie to Q, the NA hockey and is a 94? Are you considering his size? Are you considering that he is 1.61 PPG?

NA Scouting 01-17-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum (Post 42617755)
What games, tournaments are you basing your opinions on?

Are you considering that he is a rookie to Q, the NA hockey and is a 94? Are you considering his size? Are you considering that he is 1.61 PPG?

This + having this type of skillset:


Halifaxhab* 01-17-2012 09:04 AM

Grigorenko plays a "bigger" game. He is physical enough, protects the puck well with his size. His defensive game is already close to NHL ready. He also has nearly equal goal scoring ability to Galchenyuk, but Grigorenko has better passing skills.

The two are pretty close, but Grigorenko plays with weaker linemates than Galchenyk has up to now (I know he's hurt, but that doesn't matter to many scouts anyway).

Comparing Grigorenko's style to Malkin's isn't a big stretch, with some subtle differences.


I've had the good fortune to watch both players live a few times and both are impressive. I just hope my Habs can land one of these two guys.

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum (Post 42617755)
What games, tournaments are you basing your opinions on?

Are you considering that he is a rookie to Q, the NA hockey and is a 94? Are you considering his size? Are you considering that he is 1.61 PPG?

I'm considering all of those things...

Here let's break it down.

Mikhail Grigorenko: Height: 74’’ GP :36 G :25 A :33 PTS 58 AGE :17

Alex Galchenyuk: Height: 73’’ GP :68 G :31 A :52PTS 83 AGE :17

Looking past stats, Grigorenko reminds me of someone who hit the development curve quicker than others (therefore is portrayed better than he is) kind of like Benoit Pouliot. In comparison Alex Galchenyuk reminds me of a smoother skater with more upside kind of like Matt Duchene. Ovbviously this is pure speculation, however I just wanted to know why there was such a consensus on Grigorenko

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halifaxhab (Post 42617975)
Grigorenko plays a "bigger" game. He is physical enough, protects the puck well with his size. His defensive game is already close to NHL ready. He also has nearly equal goal scoring ability to Galchenyuk, but Grigorenko has better passing skills.

The two are pretty close, but Grigorenko plays with weaker linemates than Galchenyk has up to now (I know he's hurt, but that doesn't matter to many scouts anyway).

Comparing Grigorenko's style to Malkin's isn't a big stretch, with some subtle differences.


I've had the good fortune to watch both players live a few times and both are impressive. I just hope my Habs can land one of these two guys.


Big habs fan here, hence why I'm looking at big centers in the upcoming draft. It may just me my impression but Grigorenko might be NHL ready defensive and size wise, however his skating cannot be compared to Malkin…He is nowhere close in that aspect

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 09:12 AM


BobDobolina 01-17-2012 09:13 AM

Obviously haven't seen enough of both players to make claims either way but personally I wasn't at all impressed with Galchenyuk at Ivan Hlinka Memorial, the guy did not stand out at all.

Fulcrum 01-17-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42618087)
I'm considering all of those things...

Here let's break it down.

Mikhail Grigorenko: Height: 74’’ GP :36 G :25 A :33 PTS 58 AGE :17

Alex Galchenyuk: Height: 73’’ GP :68 G :31 A :52PTS 83 AGE :17

Looking past stats, Grigorenko reminds me of someone who hit the development curve quicker than others (therefore is portrayed better than he is) kind of like Benoit Pouliot. In comparison Alex Galchenyuk reminds me of a smoother skater with more upside kind of like Matt Duchene. Ovbviously this is pure speculation, however I just wanted to know why there was such a consensus on Grigorenko

The answer is, he is able to display a wider 2-way game, while being completely new to NA hockey - Golchenyuk wasn't, with (weaker) new linemates.

Also, if you watched his games before he was injured- he has the ability to slow the game down - like Malkin and dare I say it - Lemieux. That is a very special ability that doesn't go unnoticed. It's not some developement curve, that is just a talent.

WayneBruce 01-17-2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDobolina (Post 42618223)
Obviously haven't seen enough of both players to make claims either way but personally I wasn't at all impressed with Galchenyuk at Ivan Hlinka Memorial, the guy did not stand out at all.

But Grigorenko didn´t either really.

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum (Post 42618243)
The answer is, he is able to display a wider 2-way game, while being completely new to NA hockey - Golchenyuk wasn't, with (weaker) new linemates.

Also, if you watched his games before he was injured- he has the ability to slow the game down - like Malkin and dare I say it - Lemieux. That is a very special ability that doesn't go unnoticed. It's not some developement curve, that is just a talent.

Thanks, man! Clears things up.

HockeyFuture14 01-17-2012 09:29 AM

Montreal Fan here....
Been reading the boards alot on Centers in the upcoming draft and I hope the habs can land Galchenyuk. I feel Grigorenko will be gone by the time habs draft and Galchenyuk looks really special. He reminds a bit of Ovechkin in terms of how he celebrates and enjoys the game. He looks so explosive, hoping the injury doesn't set him back.

Grigorenko seems more ready for the NHL right away. He is responsible and does show a lot of similarities to Malkin. His size is unreal and for his first season in N.A, he is definitely a promising prospect.

Halifaxhab* 01-17-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42618183)
Big habs fan here, hence why I'm looking at big centers in the upcoming draft. It may just me my impression but Grigorenko might be NHL ready defensive and size wise, however his skating cannot be compared to Malkin…He is nowhere close in that aspect

His skating is choppier, with a shorter stride, but that can be fixed over an offseason (see Pacioretty).

But his style of play, on-ice vision, use of teammates, crazy "how the F did he do that" passes and stickhandeling are similar (not exactly) like Malkin's was back at the same age. But the difference in the physical level is the key. He is in NA for his 1st season and he can dish out some good hits, and more importantly, take massive hits AND keep the puck. He also isn't afraid of taking a big hit to make a big play.


But either way, I feel both Grigorenko AND Galchenyuk will be NHL All-Stars in 3 years or less.

Jason MacIsaac 01-17-2012 09:43 AM

This thread is confusing me considering my book on Grigorenko seems to be opposite of what I am seeing here.

Temego 01-17-2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #57 (Post 42617911)
This + having this type of skillset:


I havent seem Grigorenko many times and was curious to see that vid, expecting some kinda highlight-compilation, but.. he scores a backhand goal on a breakaway?

Fulcrum 01-17-2012 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temego (Post 42619433)
I havent seem Grigorenko many times and was curious to see that vid, expecting some kinda highlight-compilation, but.. he scores a backhand goal on a breakaway?

You just have to watch the games. Highlights won't do this guy justice. Somewhat like Malkin, not all the goals are highlight reel material, but when he gets the puck- you know something is going to happend.

Connor McJesus 01-17-2012 10:21 AM

Are you mostly basing your judgment on the WJC games ?

Edges7 01-17-2012 10:26 AM

Alex Galchenyuk has one major thing going for him this year. It's perceived as a weak draft year, especially at forward, and he's an "unknown" for this season's play.

The way the leaves are falling in this draft getting hurt appears to have been a positive.

Edges7 01-17-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac (Post 42619115)
This thread is confusing me considering my book on Grigorenko seems to be opposite of what I am seeing here.

You need to wade through a lot of comments here. You'd be surprised at how many people haven't actually seen the player in question and are simply parroting what it is that they have heard or read about a certain player.

DuckJet 01-17-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42617703)
I've been a competitive hockey player (played until juniors) and constant fan of the game for years, and for the life of me I can't see what's so special about Grigorenko. Let me clarify, there is no doubt in my mind he is a round 1 candidate, but top 3 is pushing it.

Can someone please elaborate why he is valued at a lock for top 3? I personally see more potential and skill from Alex Galchenyuk (smoother skater - more fluent)..

Thanks

Im in the same boat as you. I think Grigorenko will be a good playmaker, but I don't see him as being even a little close to Yakupov and I'd rather have Galchenyuk as our future second line center than Grigorenko (who is basically a slower Ryan Getzlaf.)

Sweech 01-17-2012 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42617703)
I've been a competitive hockey player (played until juniors) and constant fan of the game for years, and for the life of me I can't see what's so special about Grigorenko. Let me clarify, there is no doubt in my mind he is a round 1 candidate, but top 3 is pushing it.

Can someone please elaborate why he is valued at a lock for top 3? I personally see more potential and skill from Alex Galchenyuk (smoother skater - more fluent)..

Thanks

Is that you Craig Button?

Vinny Bombatz 01-17-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweech (Post 42633841)
Is that you Craig Button?

HAHA, nice one!

Nope

Sweech 01-17-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42618087)
I'm considering all of those things...

Here let's break it down.

Mikhail Grigorenko: Height: 74’’ GP :36 G :25 A :33 PTS 58 AGE :17

Alex Galchenyuk: Height: 73’’ GP :68 G :31 A :52PTS 83 AGE :17

Looking past stats, Grigorenko reminds me of someone who hit the development curve quicker than others (therefore is portrayed better than he is) kind of like Benoit Pouliot. In comparison Alex Galchenyuk reminds me of a smoother skater with more upside kind of like Matt Duchene. Ovbviously this is pure speculation, however I just wanted to know why there was such a consensus on Grigorenko

The other thing you have to consider is that Grigerenko doesn't have star winger Yakupov playing right beside him.

You also have to consider that Galchenyuk's injury also hasn't seemed to effect Yakupov in any negative way at all. You can argue it's because Yakupov is a star player, which is true, but it doesn't reflect well on Galchenyuk when players can continue to play at an outstanding pace without you.

dean youngblood82 01-17-2012 03:36 PM

So many baseless comments here

Using the teammate/linemate excuse shows that some of you have never watched Galchenyuk play. Yakupov is an elite player, he's SUPPOSE to produce points even if he's playing with plugs so knocking Galchenyuk for playing with Yakupov is downright wrong. If any of you watched Galchenyuk last season you would see that HE was the player carrying the play (Yakupov breakaways aside).

Both Grigorenko and Galchenyuk are big talented centres and if Galchenyuk wasn't hurrt then itkd be an evem closer race with Yakupov and Grigorenko atop the rankings.

I'd give Galchenyuk the edge on the defensive side of the puck even with him missing time and Grigorenko and Gally have similar upsides IMO (slight edge to Grigorenko though). It's close but I wouldn't be surprised to see Galchenyuk selected ahead of Grigorenko even with his injury based on their similar upsides and defensive abilities. Galchenyuk's American citizenship certainly won't hurt either if a team is worried about the "Russian" factor (which shouldn't matter anyways with any of these 3 guys).

I know that some scouts are concerned about Grigorenko's lack of effort at times. Galchenyuk's combine results will be heavily sought after.

Yakushev72 01-17-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz (Post 42618087)
I'm considering all of those things...

Here let's break it down.

Mikhail Grigorenko: Height: 74’’ GP :36 G :25 A :33 PTS 58 AGE :17

Alex Galchenyuk: Height: 73’’ GP :68 G :31 A :52PTS 83 AGE :17

Looking past stats, Grigorenko reminds me of someone who hit the development curve quicker than others (therefore is portrayed better than he is) kind of like Benoit Pouliot. In comparison Alex Galchenyuk reminds me of a smoother skater with more upside kind of like Matt Duchene. Ovbviously this is pure speculation, however I just wanted to know why there was such a consensus on Grigorenko

One factor in Grigorenko's favor is ppg. Grigorenko had 58 points in 36 games (1.61). Galchenyuk had 83 points in 68 games (1.22). Both are excellent scorers, but Grigorenko seemingly more so.


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