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-   -   How long before the 2 sides realize.... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=108280)

Laches 10-12-2004 02:28 PM

How long before the 2 sides realize....
 
...how few people really care that there's no NHL hockey right now? I'd say less than half the teams have fan bases that are genuinely aching for it. The 6 teams in Canada, Boston, Philly, New York, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis and Minnesota all have pretty strong fan bases that care, but the rest of them? I doubt the people of Raleigh are losing much sleep over the lack of Carolina Hurricanes hockey.

It's astonishing to me he stupid and stubborn these people have become. And the fans, the media, and everyone else has told them that they need to compromise, they need to get a deal done because they can't endure a long-term work stoppage. When this is all over and the league has lost teams and the players have lost job, they'll all wish they'd been more flexible, more willing ot compromise. And they'll all get deserving Itoldyaso's.

Radek27 10-12-2004 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laches
...how few people really care that there's no NHL hockey right now? I'd say less than half the teams have fan bases that are genuinely aching for it. The 6 teams in Canada, Boston, Philly, New York, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis and Minnesota all have pretty strong fan bases that care, but the rest of them? I doubt the people of Raleigh are losing much sleep over the lack of Carolina Hurricanes hockey.

It's astonishing to me he stupid and stubborn these people have become. And the fans, the media, and everyone else has told them that they need to compromise, they need to get a deal done because they can't endure a long-term work stoppage. When this is all over and the league has lost teams and the players have lost job, they'll all wish they'd been more flexible, more willing ot compromise. And they'll all get deserving Itoldyaso's.


I feel your pain. Tomorrow I should be cutting my night class to come home and catch gamenight, but instead I find myself not even caring about it right now. I am a hockey fan and I don't wanna hear no more of this. Its the same thing over and over and over. I am starting to believe that those meetings leading up to this was just PR bull, and that is a shame. It's a shame they are not talking now and have no plans to talk now.

I am a big big hockey fans here guys, but I think the way the league and the players are handling this is crazy and a big ** to the fans. How can anyone even take sides in this madness? How can there not be talks ongoing right now? I liked Bobby Orr's idea, lock em in a room till they get something done.

Fletch 10-12-2004 02:38 PM

For the owners...
 
I don't think many of them care too much at this point. So many of them are involved in other activities and are in markets that do not care much about hockey until after Football and baseball season is over (in January that is).

As you said, it is truly amazing. The NHL is at a critical point and there is no desire for the two sides to negotiate. And of course it's impossible to negotiate when one side says it has to be this way and the other says it's a non-starter. The only thing the two agree on is that salaries need to be lowered, but of course how and by how much is the real question.

Radek...those meetings were all bull. Neither side has leverage without the lockout. The players can say that they're willing to negotiate as long as the owners come off the cap idea, and the owners say they are willing to negotiates different structures that include a cap, and for PR purposes, a cap is defined as 'cost certainty', and boy I'm sure most business would like to have cost certainty. The lockout was inevitable and needed by both sides. The NHL and owners want to break the union. The players want the owners to feel the pressure of empty arenas and cave. It's a standstill, and it will be interesting to see how long the union can hold-off (of course owners, such as MSG, have a bunch of other things to worry about, so hockey's just a distraction to them - for the players, it's their life).

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-12-2004 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
I don't think many of them care too much at this point. So many of them are involved in other activities and are in markets that do not care much about hockey until after Football and baseball season is over (in January that is).

As you said, it is truly amazing. The NHL is at a critical point and there is no desire for the two sides to negotiate. And of course it's impossible to negotiate when one side says it has to be this way and the other says it's a non-starter. The only thing the two agree on is that salaries need to be lowered, but of course how and by how much is the real question.

Good post Fletch. Taking it one step further, there are some owners who claim that they stand to do better financially without a season.

Anthony Mauro 10-12-2004 02:47 PM

The thing to concentrate now is, how many teams are gonna fold? I'm not up to snuff about each teams revenue and whatever, but what teams cannot endure this lockout for a period of time?

I cant wait for some teams to fold, the talent is diluted across the league and something like 24 teams, what it used to be, would be the best way to go.

Carolina, Nashville, Columbus, Atlanta, Minnesota, Buffalo? Dammit, what the hell has Bettman done for this league other than eff it up. Unnecessary expansion, imo.

NYR469 10-12-2004 03:14 PM

i think both sides realize that no one in the us cares, the question is when will they care that no one cares...

keep in mind that the season would have only started this week, so eventhough the lockout is almost a month old, both sides are only going to start losing $$ now...

its easy to act tough when you have nothing to lose, but now that players will start missing paychecks and owners are faced with empty arenas and refunds to season ticket holders, maybe things will change...

neither side will cave right away, but hopefully as it starts to hurt them in the bank account they will become more willing to compromise...and we just have to hope that enough people on both sides have had enough by december and put major pressure on bettman and goodenow to save the season.

Slewfoot 10-12-2004 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
I don't think many of them care too much at this point. So many of them are involved in other activities and are in markets that do not care much about hockey until after Football and baseball season is over (in January that is).

As you said, it is truly amazing. The NHL is at a critical point and there is no desire for the two sides to negotiate. And of course it's impossible to negotiate when one side says it has to be this way and the other says it's a non-starter. The only thing the two agree on is that salaries need to be lowered, but of course how and by how much is the real question.

Radek...those meetings were all bull. Neither side has leverage without the lockout. The players can say that they're willing to negotiate as long as the owners come off the cap idea, and the owners say they are willing to negotiates different structures that include a cap, and for PR purposes, a cap is defined as 'cost certainty', and boy I'm sure most business would like to have cost certainty. The lockout was inevitable and needed by both sides. The NHL and owners want to break the union. The players want the owners to feel the pressure of empty arenas and cave. It's a standstill, and it will be interesting to see how long the union can hold-off (of course owners, such as MSG, have a bunch of other things to worry about, so hockey's just a distraction to them - for the players, it's their life).

Completely agree. The most frustrating part of this is that when it is finally over , the end result will most likely be a compromise for both sides compared to their current positions. Hopefully an agreement can be reached before the whole season is lost which will result in some franchises folding IMO....

NYR469 10-12-2004 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
The thing to concentrate now is, how many teams are gonna fold? I'm not up to snuff about each teams revenue and whatever, but what teams cannot endure this lockout for a period of time?

I cant wait for some teams to fold, the talent is diluted across the league and something like 24 teams, what it used to be, would be the best way to go.

Carolina, Nashville, Columbus, Atlanta, Minnesota, Buffalo? Dammit, what the hell has Bettman done for this league other than eff it up. Unnecessary expansion, imo.

i think we'd be looking at no hockey for 1, maybe 2 years before teams start to fold...teams aren't going to fold in 1/2 a season (the league assured the survival of 30 teams for a certain amount of time with the war chest (not that $10 mil/team will go very far))...and contraction isn't a realistic option.

to me this is the ironic part about the rumored theory that bettman plans to lose the whole season to get a labor impasse so he can put the cap in, which would result in a player strike, which means no hockey for 2 years atleast...

now if bettman is telling the truth about teams needing a cap for survival, odds are the teams that truly need the help will fold during those 2 years and then you'd come back with 24 or so teams that are stable and don't 'need' a cap to survive making the whole effort to get a cap a waste since you didn't save the teams the cap was intended to save...and if no teams fold, that would led me to think that bettman was lying and exageratting the problems possibly meaning that a cap wasn't needed in the first place like he claims and the whole thing was pointless...i guess the bottomline being if they go to an impasse no matter how things turn out the league is screwed, the game is screwed, bettman is screwed, goodenow is screwed, and most of all the fans are screwed.

S_O_T_I 10-12-2004 03:28 PM

One thing to remember is
 
Both sides are acting like they have leverage, but every day that goes by without an agreement hurts both sides. Both sides are waiting for the other side to blink and I think when the first side does blink (which I think will be the owners) it will be too late. I think that both sides quietly think that there will be hockey in January, like in 1994/95. The difference is (and it's a very big difference) is that they are further apart on more issues that they were last time. Neither side wants to cancel the season (despite what you might read or hear) and I fear that by the time they come to their sences, it will be too late.

NYR469 10-12-2004 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_O_T_I
Both sides are acting like they have leverage, but every day that goes by without an agreement hurts both sides. Both sides are waiting for the other side to blink and I think when the first side does blink (which I think will be the owners) it will be too late. I think that both sides quietly think that there will be hockey in January, like in 1994/95. The difference is (and it's a very big difference) is that they are further apart on more issues that they were last time. Neither side wants to cancel the season (despite what you might read or hear) and I fear that by the time they come to their sences, it will be too late.

the fact that both sides think that there will be hockey in jan like in 94/95 could be a bad thing...first thought might be "good both sides want to save the season" but on the flipside if the players are saying 'we just have to wait till december and the owners will cave to save the season' and at the same time the owners are saying 'we just have to wait till december and the players will cave to save the season' then the season won't get saved because they will just continue waiting for the other to blink.

sickboy35 10-12-2004 03:39 PM

lock them in a room until there is a settlement!! best idea! i really hate the fact that i don't have hockey to look forward to! these a$$clowns need to understand what they are doing is career suicide! from the players perspective that is. the owners, well they will see that they are being led by a blind mouse with no idea what the nhl is about, career suicide for bettmen? that would be the best scenario!

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-12-2004 03:42 PM

I think what I am most concerned about is there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency on either side. Now that I simply cannot understand.

sickboy35 10-12-2004 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I think what I am most concerned about is there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency on either side. Now that I simply cannot understand.


yeah why is there no sense of urgency on either the owners or players? that why i said lock them in a room with no way out until an agreement is made! that should have been done in the summer anyway but better late than never!

NYR469 10-12-2004 09:53 PM

i say if it isn't settled by nov 15th, we give a call to vince mcmahon and get it resolved in the main event at survivor series...gary bettman vs bob goodenow in a steel cage death match. whoever walks out has full power to make whatever system he wants :joker:


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