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Tybor 10-14-2004 04:42 PM

Diamond in the Rough
 
Are there any major boom or bust prospects in the system that don't get much attention? I'm not talking about Jessimen or Graham, but any of the lesser known guys that if the stars align just right might have star potential, but don't get much attention because its a foregone conclusion that they won't succeed.

Fish 10-14-2004 04:46 PM

I don't think there are any prospects that have been written off and are likely to make it to the NHL, but there might be one or two that don't get much attention.

The two I think that stand out the most for me are Corey Potter and Nate Guenin, both playing in the NCAA. Potter is a no frills defenseman who quietly goes about his job and is the leader on the MSU defense (and for the US in last year's WJC victory), Guenin is a little rougher round the edges, plays with an edge and added some surprising (at least in my mind) offense last season.

ChrisKreider20 10-14-2004 05:00 PM

Sven Helfenstein
Jakub Petruzalek
Pontius Petterstrom

all these guys are undersize, and have good skills. If they overcome the size barrier, one could become a 50 point guy.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-14-2004 05:13 PM

I guess Marcus Jonasen could be one of these type of guys.

Fish 10-14-2004 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancid
Sven Helfenstein
Jakub Petruzalek
Pontius Petterstrom

all these guys are undersize, and have good skills. If they overcome the size barrier, one could become a 50 point guy.

Pontus Petterstrom is playing second tier Swedish hockey...I think we can pretty much right him off. On Petruzalek I did read a comment over at McKeens from someone who just saw him play and he was very positive on him...though they said he could be more consistent and needs to show some interest in defense.

Sven, well if he ever makes it to the NHL, I'll buy you a beer :)

bmoak 10-14-2004 09:41 PM

Petterstrom? He's not small at 6'1" and isn't showing a lot of skill even in SWE-2. Helfenstein finally got off to a good start in Switzerland. Maybe this will be the first season he won't be loaned/demoted to a second division team during the season. Neither of these guys has scored at a 50 pt. pace in their own leagues, much less the NHL. If you want to champion an obscure Euro pick, Kim Hirshovits is your man. Has a fansite and everything :)

Pertuzalek might be a different story, though he has a lot to overcome. I think Psurny is the one to watch for our late round 2004 picks.

I agree with Fish on Guenin and Potter, both of whom may well turn out better than Taylor.

Other than that, I like Mike Walsh from Notre Dame. Chris Holt might turn out to be something too. Or he might be the next Brandon Snee. Heck, I once thought Jeff State might amount to something and I just read today that he signed with the expansion Danbury Trashers in the UHL (might win the minor league award for stupidest name AND logo.).

ECL 10-15-2004 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish
Pontus Petterstrom is playing second tier Swedish hockey...I think we can pretty much right him off. On Petruzalek I did read a comment over at McKeens from someone who just saw him play and he was very positive on him...though they said he could be more consistent and needs to show some interest in defense.

Sven, well if he ever makes it to the NHL, I'll buy you a beer :)

I don't agree with the thing from McKeen's on Petru. As far as I know he's been playing defense and likes to bakccheck. He's been playing a physical game and has been known to give a solid spear or two hander if someone pisses him off enough. He's a very fiesty guy if people play rough with him.

And he's super skilled and speedy as hell.

He'll be a good one.

ATLANTARANGER* 10-15-2004 11:39 AM

Fish, I could not agree with you more on Potter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish
I don't think there are any prospects that have been written off and are likely to make it to the NHL, but there might be one or two that don't get much attention.

The two I think that stand out the most for me are Corey Potter and Nate Guenin, both playing in the NCAA. Potter is a no frills defenseman who quietly goes about his job and is the leader on the MSU defense (and for the US in last year's WJC victory), Guenin is a little rougher round the edges, plays with an edge and added some surprising (at least in my mind) offense last season.

I can not comment on Guenin as I have not seen him play at all. Potter on the other hand has impressed me from the day I saw him 2 seasons ago. He is very fluid, good balance on his skates and is hard to knock off his feet. He reminds me of James Patrick, minus the choppy skating style. I think many fans under rate him. I think he is more polished at this stage than either Taylor of Liffton.

He appears to be an excllent passer and has a very accurate shot from the point. He keeps it low and on net from what I have seen.

Fletch 10-15-2004 11:44 AM

I've never seen Potter...
 
but I've liked what I've heard. From his pictures, however, and from the descriptions of how he plays, he will need to bulk up to be successful in the NHL. He seems a bit thin (and narrow - Beuk was pretty thin but was also pretty wide).

Son of Steinbrenner 10-15-2004 12:32 PM

Jake Taylor-If everything breaks right he is a top 4 defenseman

Lee Falardeu-If everything breaks right he will be a top checking line player

Mike Walsh-This kid could be a second line power forward.

These are all best case scenarios for these players.

Fish 10-15-2004 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
but I've liked what I've heard. From his pictures, however, and from the descriptions of how he plays, he will need to bulk up to be successful in the NHL. He seems a bit thin (and narrow - Beuk was pretty thin but was also pretty wide).

Well he's listed at 6-3 191, but to be honest I've never though of him as being particularly thin. He's only 20, so you figure he could easily go past 200, and perhaps 210 as an NHL playing weight...maybe 220.

E-Train 10-15-2004 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Jake Taylor-If everything breaks right he is a top 4 defenseman

Lee Falardeu-If everything breaks right he will be a top checking line player

Mike Walsh-This kid could be a second line power forward.

These are all best case scenarios for these players.

Watch out there is an anti-Taylor bias by some around here. As evidenced by the disparity in his ranking here as opposed to OTG

sorry Fish, I love your site by don't agree on your Taylor assessment.

Fish 10-15-2004 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Train
Watch out there is an anti-Taylor bias by some around here. As evidenced by the disparity in his ranking here as opposed to OTG

sorry Fish, I love your site by don't agree on your Taylor assessment.

No worries E-T...they're all just opinions after all and only time will tell. I tend to focus on the negatives a little more than some others...just my personality I guess.

For instance I see that Lundqvist (like many young goalies) goes down early and his form at times could use some work. Is he exceeding expectations...absolutely, but I still like to note the deficiencies that need to be worked out in order for that player to make it to the NHL...and that of course is not to say they won't be worked out either.

The thing that annoys me most about Taylor though is that they took him out of a solid program in Minnesota where I felt he could do more improving than he likely will at the ECHL level which is where he'll end up (or a few minutes here and there at the AHL level). The only rationalization I can give is that they want to build on the physical play which is not as easy to do in the NCAA...I'd counter and say he needs to work more on his agility and positioning than his physical play...at the very least he should have been in college for another season.

noodlemike 10-15-2004 01:37 PM

Greg Moore - offense is starting to develop and can potentially be a 2nd or 3rd line winger

E-Train 10-15-2004 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish
The thing that annoys me most about Taylor though is that they took him out of a solid program in Minnesota where I felt he could do more improving than he likely will at the ECHL level which is where he'll end up (or a few minutes here and there at the AHL level). The only rationalization I can give is that they want to build on the physical play which is not as easy to do in the NCAA...I'd counter and say he needs to work more on his agility and positioning than his physical play...at the very least he should have been in college for another season.

I couldn't agree more about Taylor needing another season in Minnesota rather than Charlotte. He would have logged a ton of icetime with quality competition. Maybe you can rank him a little better than a 3 though. ;)

Fletch 10-15-2004 02:34 PM

6'3, 191...
 
is thin, real thin (a bit smaller than Petr Nedved - imagine him banging on the blueline night-in and night-out). 210's a decent weight to play, but if I remember correctly, his style is a physical style and a few more pounds, as long as it isn't at the expense of skating speed and ability, won't hurt.

Fish 10-15-2004 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Train
I couldn't agree more about Taylor needing another season in Minnesota rather than Charlotte. He would have logged a ton of icetime with quality competition. Maybe you can rank him a little better than a 3 though. ;)

To be honest I don't think 3 is that far off. While our ratings are not perfect by any stretch, I try to represent what I think they'll become rather than what they could become. At the moment I'm split between him becoming an AHL regular and an ECHL regular which would be a 4 and 3 respectively in our rating system. Perhaps I could put him as a 3.5, but I'm not even willing to say he'll be an AHL regular just yet.

Anthony Mauro 10-15-2004 02:45 PM

I'm liking Walsh and Guenin. "Nasty" Nate could be a good #4/#5 defenseman that makes forwards pay dearly. Just what his nickname is, Nate's nasty side will get him a shot at making the NHL.

Walsh is a power forward that I hope breaks out even more than last year, this year. He is a complete player and has a pro-physique.

Fish 10-15-2004 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
is thin, real thin (a bit smaller than Petr Nedved - imagine him banging on the blueline night-in and night-out). 210's a decent weight to play, but if I remember correctly, his style is a physical style and a few more pounds, as long as it isn't at the expense of skating speed and ability, won't hurt.

But like I said, I don't expect to play at 191 after all he's only 20 and he's playing in college. His style is physical yes, but he's quiet about it...as to impacting his speed, well he doesn't really use speed much in his game, though I'll assume you mean in terms of quickness and agility.

Fish 10-15-2004 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
I'm liking Walsh and Guenin. "Nasty" Nate could be a good #4/#5 defenseman that makes forwards pay dearly. Just what his nickname is, Nate's nasty side will get him a shot at making the NHL.

Walsh is a power forward that I hope breaks out even more than last year, this year. He is a complete player and has a pro-physique.

Walsh is worth watching, but I don't know that I'd call him a complete player. He has scoring ability, but isn't really a stand-out as such...he isn't really a playmaker, and his defense, like so many younger players, is second on the list.

Walsh has size, is not afraid to use it and has shown some scoring touch. He's still rough around the edges and needs to become the go-to guy at Notre Dame...and this is an important year for him as one of the team's leaders.

ttnorm 10-15-2004 04:16 PM

I'll give you a guy that the conventional wisdom has written off. Jeff Hamilton.

Already has NHL wheels, strength, and shot. After leaving Yale, he came to the Wolfpack camp in poor shape (I think he called himself the fat b@$t@rd after getting cut). Fast forward to last year, he is in great shape, played outstanding 2 way hockey, and led the AHL in goals despite missing 13 games with an eye injury.

Will that translate into an NHL player? Tough to say but with his skill set, he is going to get big look almost certainly. Guys with his skills and salary are a big asset to any team.

Levitate 10-15-2004 07:01 PM

Quote:

The thing that annoys me most about Taylor though is that they took him out of a solid program in Minnesota where I felt he could do more improving than he likely will at the ECHL level which is where he'll end up (or a few minutes here and there at the AHL level). The only rationalization I can give is that they want to build on the physical play which is not as easy to do in the NCAA...I'd counter and say he needs to work more on his agility and positioning than his physical play...at the very least he should have been in college for another season.
i dunno, i wonder if there was something behind the scenes that caused them to sign him? maybe somethin we don't know about...

free0717 10-15-2004 08:55 PM

This Billy Ryan had great numbers at Cushing Academy. Is he a diamond in the rough?

BobMarleyNYR 10-15-2004 09:04 PM

My boom or bust players in order...

Hugh Jessiman - I think he'll either be the next John LeClair, or a career AHL reserve player.

Peter Prucha - A 2nd (maybe even 1st) line forward similar to Balej. He's small, soft and strictly offensive though.

Bruce Graham - Graham could be a 2nd line playmaker (compared to Eric Daze), or he could be forgotten after juniors.

Darin Olver - Very crude, raw, but skilled player. I'd say a 2nd or even 1st line forward.

Marcus Jonasen - Jonasen could be a 2nd line power-forward if he actually left Europe.

Jan Marek - Similar to Prucha... could be a 2nd line player.

Jakub Petruzalek - Chances are really against him, but he might become a 3rd-2nd line winger.

Roman Psurny - See Petruzalek.

modestfwd 10-15-2004 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
My boom or bust players in order...

Hugh Jessiman - I think he'll either be the next John LeClair, or a career AHL reserve player.

Peter Prucha - A 2nd (maybe even 1st) line forward similar to Balej. He's small, soft and strictly offensive though.

Bruce Graham - Graham could be a 2nd line playmaker (compared to Eric Daze), or he could be forgotten after juniors.

Darin Olver - Very crude, raw, but skilled player. I'd say a 2nd or even 1st line forward.

Marcus Jonasen - Jonasen could be a 2nd line power-forward if he actually left Europe.

Jan Marek - Similar to Prucha... could be a 2nd line player.

Jakub Petruzalek - Chances are really against him, but he might become a 3rd-2nd line winger.

Roman Psurny - See Petruzalek.


First of all, Prucha isn't strictly offensive. From what I heard about the world juniors he hit and played defense. Maybe I'm mistaken.
Second of all, Marcus Jonason left Europe and this will be his second season as captain of the Tri-City Americans in the WHL.


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