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-   -   Clarke MacArthur - slump or a one-off season? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1087081)

Tak7 01-22-2012 02:12 AM

Clarke MacArthur - slump or a one-off season?
 
When Clarke MacArthur signed on with the Maple Leafs in the off-season, I think most of us were very happy with securing him down.

He was just coming off of a great year - one that not only did he beat his career highs, but he crushed them.

This year - he's struggled. Now I know he's still on pace for a good goal return, but what he's on pace for, and what he's actually going to get, are two very different things. He doesn't look right now, like he's a player capable of getting more than 20 goals (he's on 12 right now).

So my question is simple:

Is Clarke MacArthur simply suffering a similar sort of slump that the likes of Nikolai Kulemin is? Is the player that we saw last year the real Clarke? Most people believe Kulemin is exponentially better than what we've seen this year (me included).

Or was last year just a one-off year where everything went right for Mac, and this is more in-line with what the real-Clarke is?

Erza Scarlet 01-22-2012 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak7 (Post 42893577)
When Clarke MacArthur signed on with the Maple Leafs in the off-season, I think most of us were very happy with securing him down.

He was just coming off of a great year - one that not only did he beat his career highs, but he crushed them.

This year - he's struggled. Now I know he's still on pace for a good goal return, but what he's on pace for, and what he's actually going to get, are two very different things. He doesn't look right now, like he's a player capable of getting more than 20 goals (he's on 12 right now).

So my question is simple:

Is Clarke MacArthur simply suffering a similar sort of slump that the likes of Nikolai Kulemin is? Is the player that we saw last year the real Clarke? Most people believe Kulemin is exponentially better than what we've seen this year (me included).

Or was last year just a one-off year where everything went right for Mac, and this is more in-line with what the real-Clarke is?

both Clarke and Kuli are what they are, top 6 forward tweeners on the 2nd and 3rd liners. Might give you 20 goals, 35-50 points, but there are better options.

-DeMo- 01-22-2012 02:30 AM

I see both Kulemin and Mac are gonna be 40-50 point players in there careers, so I believe Kadri can step in and replace those points next season and therefore if we got something of value being offered for Mac I would move him, I'd keep Kulemin for his physicality over Mac.

holden57 01-22-2012 02:36 AM

mac (and kuli) were just so good last season, it's hard to believe it was just a one year thing. however, the way this season is going maybe they are nothing more than third liners. i certainly hope not though.

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beezle (Post 42893673)
both Clarke and Kuli are what they are, top 6 forward tweeners on the 2nd and 3rd liners. Might give you 20 goals, 35-50 points, but there are better options.

Mac maybe, but not Kulemin. Kulemin is a good player who is struggling with personal problems this year. He is still working hard and trying in games, Mac plays disinterested hockey. Last week after the Rags game, he complained that the Rangers try to bore you out of the arena. Probably why he looked like he didn't give a rat's ass during that game

The Reaper 01-22-2012 02:38 AM

is it just me or is it that Kulie and Mac only succeeded because of Grabo?

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ulimate Reims (Post 42894149)
is it just me or is it that Kulie and Mac only succeeded because of Grabo?

God damn I wish more people would acknowledge Kulemin's personal struggles, this guy's mind and heart are not fully in it this year. That kind of skill just doesn't evaporate.

I do believe Grabo is the glue that holds the three together, but last season Grabo and Kulemin played fantastic together even without MacArthur, but when Mac was separated from them he played poorly. Grabo and Kuli have had good chemistry since their first season with the Leafs in 2008-2009. I'd say Mac benefited from that line the most, though all three were good together.

Erza Scarlet 01-22-2012 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafOfBread (Post 42894107)
Mac maybe, but not Kulemin. Kulemin is a good player who is struggling with personal problems this year. He is still working hard and trying in games, Mac plays disinterested hockey. Last week after the Rags game, he complained that the Rangers try to bore you out of the arena. Probably why he looked like he didn't give a rat's ass during that game

Stop making the excuse for the guy. Kuli is a good two way player with solid offensive skill like a guy like Simmonds, Clutterbuck. Guys that can score a couple goals and play both ends. He's going to play 4 seasons in the NHL, and to date he's had one season where he scored over 20 goals and 50 points, and the other season being a 30 point player, 15-20 goals, 15-20 assists. Yeah, Mac is playing disinterested, should be a healthy scratch, but the offence just dies with Kuli these days. Missing shots, he's not even getting assists or secondary assists, to put up point totals. Heck he's having a worse offensive season than Mac with more games played.

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beezle (Post 42894369)
Stop making the excuse for the guy. Kuli is a good two way player with solid offensive skill like a guy like Simmonds, Clutterbuck. Guys that can score a couple goals and play both ends. He's going to play 4 seasons in the NHL, and to date he's had one season where he scored over 20 goals and 50 points, and the other season being a 30 point player, 15-20 goals, 15-20 assists. Yeah, Mac is playing disinterested, should be a healthy scratch, but the offence just dies with Kuli these days. Missing shots, he's not even getting assists or secondary assists, to put up point totals. Heck he's having a worse offensive season than Mac with more games played.

I'm not making excuses fool. You have no idea what the guy is going through. He lost his best friend and mentor, the guy who helped him adjust to Toronto life, in Igor Korolev. Korolev was almost like a father to him. Imagine losing someone like that, as well as many other friends right before starting the season (the plane crash happened close to when pre-season was supposed to start, and Korolev's funeral was right at the beginning of pre-season). Do you have any idea what kind of effect that has on someone? These people are human beings at the end of the day, not toys for your entertainment.

And in case you forgot, he was a top offensive player in the KHL and was even KHL MVP one year. He is more skilled than guys like Simmonds and Clutterbuck.

If you're using his other seasons as comparisons, you better look at the facts broken down.

1. 2008-2009 was his rookie year where he was getting adjusted to the North American game. He was still undersized at that time and soft, and was learning to play an all-around game.

2. 2009-2010, he didn't even start with the team on the roster at the beginning, but was called up later and played a limited role in the bottom six. He spent a lot of time on the third line, working on his defensive game, grinding it out along the boards, improving forechecking and cycling, and learning to be a solid two-way player. Eventually when trades opened up spots, Kulemin found himself on the top line and played fantastic. He went on a big run at the end of the year with Bozak and Kessel, and was scoring at a 50+ pt pace. He carried that over to 2010-2011, and succeeded.

All of Kulemin's success has been due to solid development and dedication. He is not a fluke or flash in the pan, last season may have been a bit of an overachievement but it's not like he's just a plain 30 pt player who had a lucky year, again it was steady and solid development. He is going through tough times, put yourself in his position and think about it.

And please, don't give me "he's playing hockey for millions of dollars" line, he's still human.

DeathToAllButMetal 01-22-2012 03:05 AM

Sheesh, lighten up, Francis.

You don't know how much Kulemin is struggling with the Korolev loss, unless you're Kulemin. Maybe he's actually dedicated this season to his memory, and for whatever reason, he just isn't getting the job done. Regardless, he's a grown-up. And grown-ups don't get to just take a year off the job when a tragedy strikes. Whether you're punching out Chryslers or skating in the NHL, you've got a limited amount of time to get your head out of your ass or you are toast.

Life sucks. Deal with it.

Platinum Seat Leafs 01-22-2012 03:06 AM

**** Kulemin is and is going to be a one year wonder guy has vanished from the face of the earth and to think we could of had him and Kadri for RICHARDS :( wow

Erza Scarlet 01-22-2012 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafOfBread (Post 42894603)
I'm not making excuses fool. You have no idea what the guy is going through. He lost his best friend and mentor, the guy who helped him adjust to Toronto life, in Igor Korolev. Korolev was almost like a father to him. Imagine losing someone like that, as well as many other friends right before starting the season (the plane crash happened close to when pre-season was supposed to start, and Korolev's funeral was right at the beginning of pre-season). Do you have any idea what kind of effect that has on someone? These people are human beings at the end of the day, not toys for your entertainment.

And in case you forgot, he was a top offensive player in the KHL and was even KHL MVP one year. He is more skilled than guys like Simmonds and Clutterbuck.

If you're using his other seasons as comparisons, you better look at the facts broken down.

1. 2008-2009 was his rookie year where he was getting adjusted to the North American game. He was still undersized at that time and soft, and was learning to play an all-around game.

2. 2009-2010, he didn't even start with the team on the roster at the beginning, but was called up later and played a limited role in the bottom six. He spent a lot of time on the third line, working on his defensive game, grinding it out along the boards, improving forechecking and cycling, and learning to be a solid two-way player. Eventually when trades opened up spots, Kulemin found himself on the top line and played fantastic. He went on a big run at the end of the year with Bozak and Kessel, and was scoring at a 50+ pt pace. He carried that over to 2010-2011, and succeeded.

All of Kulemin's success has been due to solid development and dedication. He is not a fluke or flash in the pan, last season may have been a bit of an overachievement but it's not like he's just a plain 30 pt player who had a lucky year, again it was steady and solid development. He is going through tough times, put yourself in his position and think about it.

And please, don't give me "he's playing hockey for millions of dollars" line, he's still human.

Gustavsson lost his parents, he got over it. So should Kuli. Phaneuf's grandmother died, he got over it and played solid. Yes it's sad the Russian team died, but using it as an excuse for his pitiful play is brutal. It's not like he's coughing up the puck, he just isn't doing anything offensively.

-DeMo- 01-22-2012 03:10 AM

usually when people are distracted from playing the sport they play because of personal problems, the first thing that it affects is a players effort level, and you said it yourself that his Effort hasn't dropped so I don't believe thats affecting only his offence.

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddGillForever (Post 42894737)
Sheesh, lighten up, Francis.

You don't know how much Kulemin is struggling with the Korolev loss, unless you're Kulemin. Maybe he's actually dedicated this season to his memory, and for whatever reason, he just isn't getting the job done. Regardless, he's a grown-up. And grown-ups don't get to just take a year off the job when a tragedy strikes. Whether you're punching out Chryslers or skating in the NHL, you've got a limited amount of time to get your head out of your ass or you are toast.

Life sucks. Deal with it.

A poster on this board had a thread earlier saying that they met Kulemin in person and asked him about his struggles this season, and he admitted that he was still having trouble dealing with the loss of Korolev. You can see when he plays, his heart isn't fully there.

I love it when keyboard warriors act tough and say to move on so easily. It's not like that, and many people handle situations differently. Not everyone is the same, some people use it as motivation or dedication, others struggle, it happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beezle (Post 42894755)
Gustavsson lost his parents, he got over it. So should Kuli. Phaneuf's grandmother died, he got over it and played solid. Yes it's sad the Russian team died, but using it as an excuse for his pitiful play is brutal. It's not like he's coughing up the puck, he just isn't doing anything offensively.

Not everyone is the same you incoherent. We are not programmed robots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -DeMo- (Post 42894827)
usually when people are distracted from playing the sport they play because of personal problems, the first thing that it affects is a players effort level, and you said it yourself that his Effort hasn't dropped so I don't believe thats affecting only his offence.

Not necessarily. It can affect concentration greatly, sometimes you try and give it all but it just doesn't work, you go into a slump, it happens.

I can't believe how dense some ****ing people here are, learn to separate a game and life.

Have you forgotten Espen Knutsen? Solid player, even picked for an All-Star game once, but in one game his shot deflected into the stands and killed a girl. After the incident his point totals deteriorated and even though he was still trying he just couldn't succeed, it took a toll on his mind. It's different for every player. Craig MacTavish killed a girl in a DUI incident, which is much worse because he could've controlled that situation, yet he came back and played some solid hockey for the Oilers. Different people react differently to these situations.

Platinum Seat Leafs 01-22-2012 03:25 AM

When you are making ****ing millions of dollars a year you better ****ing show up like what the ****... Kulemin play hockey or retire you scrub we could of had Mike Richards for you but burke did not want you in that deal u *****

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VALDAL (Post 42895099)
When you are making ****ing millions of dollars a year you better ****ing show up like what the ****... Kulemin play hockey or retire you scrub we could of had Mike Richards for you but burke did not want you in that deal u *****

:facepalm: I didn't know being rich meant you aren't allowed to experience human emotions or depression.

Platinum Seat Leafs 01-22-2012 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafOfBread (Post 42895139)
:facepalm: I didn't know being rich meant you aren't allowed to experience human emotions or depression.

When you are on a sports team like Toronto and gunning for the Playoffs and everything you emotions are not allowed when u make that much i get he is sad but get over it you are here to play hockey not sulk and wine

LeafOfBread 01-22-2012 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VALDAL (Post 42895167)
When you are on a sports team like Toronto and gunning for the Playoffs and everything you emotions are not allowed when u make that much i get he is sad but get over it you are here to play hockey not sulk and wine

What a selfish thought.

And he's not sulking and whining? He's still trying hard but is snakebitten.

Platinum Seat Leafs 01-22-2012 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafOfBread (Post 42895203)
What a selfish thought.

And he's not sulking and whining? He's still trying hard but is snakebitten.

hes trying hard having open net chances and shooting the puck over the net or getting nice passes or break away's missing the net ... His hits arn't even worthy of being called a hit ...

Tak7 01-22-2012 05:03 AM

I made this thread particularly to focus on Mac.

If I wanted to discuss Kulemin, I would have made a thread about Kulemin or included him in this one.

Kulemin isn't in "mourning" mode, or "depressed", etc. He's just struggling offensively. The rest of his game is fine; he's still so responsible in his own end and is moving about the ice very, very, well. It's just not coming off for him offensively.

Focusing back on Mac - is it possible though, that last year was just a one-off? I mean, if you look at his numbers now, he's on pace for a rather decent year, but those are also numbers that are relatively consistent with the types of #s he put up before last year's big break out.

Leaf Rocket 01-22-2012 05:17 AM

Definitely not having the season i wanted from him,especially after showing that great drive last year he is now where to be found thi time around.

noway 01-22-2012 07:50 AM

He is our new Lee Stempniak and that isn't saying much.

darrylsittler27 01-22-2012 08:41 AM

He has his contract now.
 
It's over,he will never play that well again.We have so many players having off years.Burke extended Wilson,Wilson is the common thread,Burke will be fired at seasons end for putting his wishes(Wilsons extension) above what is best for the Leafs,Wilsons firing.Mac,Kulemin,Schenn,Reimer etc.All have no trade value now.Burke is furiously working the phones trying to trade our first rounders and scuttle the ship before he gets launched.He started with a botch(Kessel trade) and ends with a botch(Wilson not fired).

Mac was a one hit wonder,his value now?A 5th rounder maybe.

DrkSideOfDaMoon* 01-22-2012 09:02 AM

If a 27 year old hockey player hasnt really established anything in his career/ or has done **** all all previous years and has one good year with us obviously its a fluke. If Macarthur was a dominant player previously than you cant say he's a one year wonder. This scrub cant hit the net and hes making millions and hes 7 feet away. Hes just utter useless. Him and kulemin. kulemin has done ****all is whole career than randomly has a 30 goal season. Its head scratching. Grabovski is the only one worth keeping on that line. Trade Kulemin, Macarthur, Schenn, +1st for a ****ing stud.

Igy 01-22-2012 09:33 AM

Funny how players start to not really care and play horrible once they get a contract. Pure laziness.


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