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-   -   Take Brown off the PP, insert Loktionov? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1090327)

kingsfan 01-25-2012 02:56 PM

Take Brown off the PP, insert Loktionov?
 
Ok, not as simple as the title suggests, but I found this article from Scott Cullen of TSN interesting:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386057

The article looks at players with big swings in PP time per game. Brown has seen the 36th largest jump of all players between this year and last year for players who have played at least 10 games in both seasons. He's up 57 seconds of PP time per game.

On the flip side, Loktionov has seen the fourth largest drop off, going from 2:34 per game last year to 32 seconds per game this year.

Considering Brown isn't really doing much offensively anyways, and the fact it'd be nice to see some more creativity on the PP, would you work things around to insert Loktionov and remove Brown?

Also, as a side note, Wayne Simmonds has seen the biggest PP time of anyone in the league going up to 2:26 per game in Philly compared to 51 seconds per game in LA last year. Ponikarovsky also had a big increase, but only Simmonds seems to have benefitted much from it. Handzus meanwhile is down to 1:04 per game in San Jose, compared to 2:41 a game in LA.

damacles1156 01-25-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 43102637)
Ok, not as simple as the title suggests, but I found this article from Scott Cullen of TSN interesting:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386057

The article looks at players with big swings in PP time per game. Brown has seen the 36th largest jump of all players between this year and last year for players who have played at least 10 games in both seasons. He's up 57 seconds of PP time per game.

On the flip side, Loktionov has seen the fourth largest drop off, going from 2:34 per game last year to 32 seconds per game this year.

Considering Brown isn't really doing much offensively anyways, and the fact it'd be nice to see some more creativity on the PP, would you work things around to insert Loktionov and remove Brown?

Also, as a side note, Wayne Simmonds has seen the biggest PP time of anyone in the league going up to 2:26 per game in Philly compared to 51 seconds per game in LA last year. Ponikarovsky also had a big increase, but only Simmonds seems to have benefitted much from it. Handzus meanwhile is down to 1:04 per game in San Jose, compared to 2:41 a game in LA.

Unless Loki is willing to screen the Goalie or go to the net, No thanks.

Brown was a big reason the PP scored the other night(Screen). Slava should QB the first PP unit with Jack.

Let Richards and Drew run the second. I want to see Loki get going on the Offensive side as well. But more PP time is probably not going to do it.

Pretty sure Simmonds plays with a world class Puck handler on the PP (Giroux) also Simmonds is willing to stand at the Net and Bang(that's where Goals are scored).

The person I would like to see get more PP time is Clifford(he has earned it). Put Cliford on the second unit, start teaching him to screen Goalie's.

Fishhead 01-25-2012 03:12 PM

Lokti hasn't shown he can score consistently yet, whereas Brown has. Also the obvious fact that Brown goes to the middle right in front of the net.

I'd rather see him out there than Stoll, obviously. Penner isn't great but he's been responsible for a few PP goals this year by planting himself in front.

Jason Lewis 01-25-2012 03:13 PM

Browns role on the PP is to screen the goalie. And he does a damn good job of it. Taking Brown off the PP you can forget about traffic.


The guy has done one hell of a job this year getting in front of the net.

KINGS17 01-25-2012 03:14 PM

B
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by damacles1156 (Post 43103165)
Unless Loki is willing to screen the Goalie or go to the net, No thanks.

Brown was a big reason the PP scored the other night(Screen). Slava should QB the first PP unit with Jack.

Let Richards and Drew run the second. I want to see Loki get going on the Offensive side as well. But more PP time is probably not going to do it.

Pretty sure Simmonds plays with a world class Puck handler on the PP (Giroux) also Simmonds is willing to stand at the Net and Bang.

I agree mostly. Brown or another player like him (maybe Clifford) are essential to the PP to bang in rebounds and create screens.

Keep Kopitar off the half wall and on the weak side as a shooter. Let Voynov QB the thing as he is superior to both Doughty and Johnson in that regard. I guess I would have Doughty out there over Johnson due to his superior puck handling ability.

Williams or Loktionov on the half-wall would be fine.

Buddy The Elf 01-25-2012 03:17 PM

take Stoll off the PP and replace him with ANYONE!

kingsfan 01-25-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 43103573)
I agree mostly. Brown or another player like him (maybe Clifford) are essential to the PP to bang in rebounds and create screens.

Keep Kopitar off the half wall and on the weak side as a shooter. Let Voynov QB the thing as he is superior to both Doughty and Johnson in that regard. I guess I would have Doughty out there over Johnson due to his superior puck handling ability.

Williams or Loktionov on the half-wall would be fine.

I was thinking something along these lines as well. VV and DD on the point with Brown in front and Kopitar or Richards or whoever downlow but to the side as a passing option. Loki on the wall, but have him higher up than where Kopitar plays now. Essentially place Loki where Datsyuk plays in Detroit, closer to the point man than the corner.

Keep your puck control near the top of the offensive zone until you have a chance to go for the pass or the shot and have at least two players ready for a potential rebound. The constant puck movement can wear out the opposition quicker as well, and you don't rely on stationary players all the time.

Jason Lewis 01-25-2012 03:27 PM

If I had my way with the PP...


Brown - Kopitar - Williams : Doughty - Johnson
Penner/ (maybe Clifford) - Richards - Loktionov : Voynov - Mitchell


Penner just because that big guy in front of the net his a hell of a thing to move. I don't care if he scores. Just get in the ****ing way

And Mitchell, purely because he is intelligent and when he does shoot he has a pretty heavy shot. Also he tends to look for tips and screen shots more then anyone it seems. No one timer sticks to the rafters like Doughty - Johnson...just simple throw it on net...Let Richards - Penner fish for rebounds.



Also



Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 43102637)

Considering Brown isn't really doing much offensively anyways, and the fact it'd be nice to see some more creativity on the PP, would you work things around to insert Loktionov and remove Brown?



Brown has 13 goals, on pace for about 24. Which is roughly his average. He has 5 PP goals, and 5 gw goals.

To say he hasn't done much offensively....at least on this team, that's not true. He's 2nd in PP goals, 1st in GW goals, 3rd in Goals in general and 3rd in points.

Give Dustin Brown SOME credit here.

Andrew Knoll 01-25-2012 03:31 PM

Brown is the only guy the Kings have who clogs up the net front with any kind of consistency of effectiveness. He is also good recovering pucks, good instincts, strong and quick to the puck.

Putting Loktionov out there with the second unit makes more sense. He's good when the game slows down a little, if he has some time to lift his head and wait a play out, he can make some nice passes. It still doesn't happen all that often.

Whiskeypete 01-25-2012 03:35 PM

swapping DB for Lokti won't achieve anything, because their roles on the PP are completey different.

the PP has been so anemic that making any changes to the #1 now, just when it is beginning to show some life i think is the wrong course. at the same time there are some personnel changes i wish they would make for the long haul

#1 PP - Kopi (primary - half board)
VV (secondary - point)
JJ (point - hammer)
Clifford or Penner (screen)
JW (off wing)



#2 PP - MR (primary -half board)
Lokti (secondary QB, off wing)
DD (don't QB just move the puck and score - less he thinks the better he will be)
DB (screen)
5th spot (anyone but high-n-wide Stoll)

why? you just said don't change anything, but you did....wtf?

the #1 in it's current setup suffers from indecision, far to much indecision on transition and entry. why? because they have 3, if not 4 guys that all want to QB the unit (kopi, dd, mr and jj). less chiefs, more indians. the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid. call it what ever you wish, but there are to many guys trying to be 'the guy'. each unit needs a primary and secondary guy to set things up, the rest of the guys are there to fill roles and specific space in the zone.

the #2 unit with this mix then puts out what i think would spread the talent out and make it more difficult for the opponent. who do you want to defend against? the #1 with kopi and maybe a bit of a lesser known name of talent? or the the #2 with MR, DD and DB? this mix gets Lokti out there as a QB in an outmanned situation that will allow him to really maximize his puck possession skills. MR could likely sit on the off wing again for one-timers. in the meantime Lokti and DD could be the setup men.

for weeks if not months so far this season the #2 has been just as efficient or better when it comes to gaining entry into the zone on the PP. some nights the #1 can't even get in and setup. the #2 in the meantime gets in and gets some shots. i think a lot of this has to do with giving the opponent really just one line it has to counter with their best defenders.

its all about changing the mix and spreading out the D and also their personnel. you do this you have a better chance of scoring. you reduce the amount of guys looking to QB the PP and making decisions, you have a better chance of scoring. the best and most effective PPs many times comes down to the simplest.

KINGS17 01-25-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 43104189)
I was thinking something along these lines as well. VV and DD on the point with Brown in front and Kopitar or Richards or whoever downlow but to the side as a passing option. Loki on the wall, but have him higher up than where Kopitar plays now. Essentially place Loki where Datsyuk plays in Detroit, closer to the point man than the corner.

Keep your puck control near the top of the offensive zone until you have a chance to go for the pass or the shot and have at least two players ready for a potential rebound. The constant puck movement can wear out the opposition quicker as well, and you don't rely on stationary players all the time.

I would like to see Loktionov and Voynov out there together myself. I think both have great vision and are good passers. They would do a good job of finding the seams and making the cross ice pass.

kingsfan 01-25-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaygokings (Post 43104311)
Brown has 13 goals, on pace for about 24. Which is roughly his average. He has 5 PP goals, and 5 gw goals.

To say he hasn't done much offensively....at least on this team, that's not true. He's 2nd in PP goals, 1st in GW goals, 3rd in Goals in general and 3rd in points.

Give Dustin Brown SOME credit here.

Yeah, not trying to bash Brown, so sorry if it came off that way. Was more meaning that he's struggling offensively on the powerplay. Despite that nearly one minute a game bump in powerplay time (which btw has him playing the most per game on the PP in his entire career) he's on pace for just eight goals and 16 points on the powerplay. I understand he is ok at his role, but ice time per production, I was thinking maybe we could use to switch things up a bit.

Does anyone know what our PP percentage is under Sutter versus under TM? I think we have gone up some in the rankings, but not sure if our percentage is going up or some teams are just starting to suck a bit more.

DaAnimal 01-25-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf (Post 43103761)
take Stoll off the PP and replace him with ANYONE!

i was so going to post that, thank you elf

Telos 01-25-2012 03:50 PM

Loktionov takes Kopitar or Richard's role on the second unit as the guy on the half-board that tries to set up plays and passes. Brown is a front of the net type of presence that Loktionov can't replicate.

Quattro 01-25-2012 04:43 PM

Replace a guy with 13 goals with a guy with zero. Sounds like a plan.

santiclaws 01-25-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaygokings (Post 43104311)
If I had my way with the PP...


Brown - Kopitar - Williams : Doughty - Johnson
Penner/ (maybe Clifford) - Richards - Loktionov : Voynov - Mitchell

Someone stole my NHL12 lines...

Jason Lewis 01-25-2012 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santiclaws (Post 43108781)
Someone stole my NHL12 lines...

Lol right? I have the number 1 PP in the league on Superstar difficulty.

DO IT NOW SUTTER

SFKingshomer 01-25-2012 05:56 PM

Richards worked the point in PHI so here's what I would try. I like Clifford and Penner with Loktionov to open space for him and crash the net.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams with Johnson-Doughty
Penner-Loktionov-Clifford with Voynov-Richards

kingsfan28 01-25-2012 07:09 PM

That make a whole lotta sense.Take a guy with what...5 pp goals and 5 pp assists and replace him with a guy with 0 pp goals and is a perimeter player that shows creativity.

Although, there's a bunch of guys on another website who believe Brown doesn't deserve a second of pp time.

Jason Lewis 01-25-2012 07:17 PM

Step 1: Take Stoll off the powerplay
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: Profit

bobafettish* 01-25-2012 07:20 PM

put lotki in take brown out and let kopitar do the screening.

KINGS17 01-25-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 43114341)
put lotki in take brown out and let kopitar do the screening.

Kopitar's shot makes him the ideal trigger man, not the garbage man. The garbage man job is for guys like Brown, Penner, and Clifford.

Whiskeypete 01-25-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 43114341)
put lotki in take brown out and let kopitar do the screening.

last thing they need is Kopi sitting down low taking the beating and pucks to the hands/body/etc....pass

bobafettish* 01-25-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 43115967)
Kopitar's shot makes him the ideal trigger man, not the garbage man. The garbage man job is for guys like Brown, Penner, and Clifford.

ideally yes, but he never gets to the center of the ice so his shot is useless
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeypete (Post 43117681)
last thing they need is Kopi sitting down low taking the beating and pucks to the hands/body/etc....pass

youre probably right

KINGS17 01-25-2012 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 43119165)
ideally yes, but he never gets to the center of the ice so his shot is useless


youre probably right

Kopitar gets to the center of the ice if you put him on the weak side instead of having him stick handle the puck all day on the half-wall. Sorry, but Kopitar is a disaster on the half-wall IMO.


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