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-   -   3.9% chance of making the playoffs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1091785)

shortcat1 01-27-2012 01:00 PM

3.9% chance of making the playoffs
 
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL.html

Funny but not that far off, really.

It looks like, and with no surprise, that the Bruins are given the highest percentage to make the playoffs at over 38%.

The Rangers, Red Wings and Canucks follow but are way back. In fact, their possibility rate is closer to Montreal's than Boston's.

Lars Mon Amour 01-27-2012 01:01 PM

Better than 0%.

GO HABS GO! :yo: PLAYOFFS, HERE WE COME.

uiCk 01-27-2012 01:03 PM

21-9-3 For the win!

Cup numbers bare no meaning until regular season is over.

MathMan 01-27-2012 01:16 PM

Sports club stats uses goal-differential to determine team strength, which is why it (over)rates the Bruins so highly, and likes the Habs' chances more than most of the teams around them (note how they're given better odds than Winnipeg despite trailing them in the standings)

76ftw 01-27-2012 01:19 PM

Let's do it! Go Habs Go... to the playoffs **** tanking aka losing.

sweat 01-27-2012 01:20 PM

Whatever the chances are, I think it's important we move some of our expiring contracts before the Habs get to close to a playoff spot. Guys like Campoli, Gill and Moen. I wouldn't even be against moving Kostitsyn for the right return.
Even if Montreal did move these 4 guys, I don't think it significantly lowers their chances for a miracle run to the playoffs.
If Montreal waits to long, they may end up close enough to a playoff spot that that moving anyone initiates a media frenzy.

uiCk 01-27-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 43189909)
Sports club stats uses goal-differential to determine team strength, which is why it (over)rates the Bruins so highly, and likes the Habs' chances more than most of the teams around them (note how they're given better odds than Winnipeg despite trailing them in the standings)

Those numbers are starting to be very telling, especially for Fla. Ottawa too, i expect the number to drop more into the negative
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweat (Post 43190041)
Whatever the chances are, I think it's important we move some of our expiring contracts before the Habs get to close to a playoff spot. Guys like Campoli, Gill and Moen. I wouldn't even be against moving Kostitsyn for the right return.
Even if Montreal did move these 4 guys, I don't think it significantly lowers their chances for a miracle run to the playoffs.
If Montreal waits to long, they may end up close enough to a playoff spot that that moving anyone initiates a media frenzy.

campoli wont change the numbers, gill maybe, Ak will do. Keep AK and keep moen too. Gill still good, not sold on trading him yet.

Monctonscout 01-27-2012 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortcat1 (Post 43189359)
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL.html

Funny but not that far off, really.

It looks like, and with no surprise, that the Bruins are given the highest percentage to make the playoffs at over 38%.

The Rangers, Red Wings and Canucks follow but are way back. In fact, their possibility rate is closer to Montreal's than Boston's.

The odds of the Habs making the playoffs is closer to 10% than 25%, not sure where that info came from...

uiCk 01-27-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 43190335)
The odds of the Habs making the playoffs is closer to 10% than 25%, not sure where that info came from...

from the link you quoted. Where did you get your info?

Krnage 01-27-2012 01:33 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Gv8m27X8Xt...yes-we-can.jpg

Captain Saku 01-27-2012 01:49 PM

I'm not a statistics expert but how is it even possible for a team at this point to have 100% chance to make the playoffs?

Boston, Rangers and Detroit have 100% chance and St.Louis, Philadelphia, Vancouver have 99.9% chance? WTF?

MathMan 01-27-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uiCk (Post 43190199)
Those numbers are starting to be very telling, especially for Fla. Ottawa too, i expect the number to drop more into the negative

Goal differential is better than previous record as a yardstick of team strength, but it's not the be-all end-all either.

It is, however, a good clue that the Habs are a lot stronger than their record suggests. They lose too many one-goal games.

Habit11 01-27-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 43189909)
Sports club stats uses goal-differential to determine team strength, which is why it (over)rates the Bruins so highly, and likes the Habs' chances more than most of the teams around them (note how they're given better odds than Winnipeg despite trailing them in the standings)

That would explain the 9% jump from the previous day. Habs' increased their goal differential by 5 against the Wings.

MathMan 01-27-2012 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Saku (Post 43191161)
I'm not a statistics expert but how is it even possible for a team at this point to have 100% chance to make the playoffs?

Sportsclubstats operates by simulating six million seasons then counting which proportion has team X making the playoffs.

While it's mathematically possible that Boston might miss, it only occured in 540 out of 6 000 000 -- far less than 0.05%, so it was rounded up.

Maverik 01-27-2012 02:11 PM

So your telling me there's a chance?

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...resachance.gif

habsjunkie2* 01-27-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 43191515)
Goal differential is better than previous record as a yardstick of team strength, but it's not the be-all end-all either.

It is, however, a good clue that the Habs are a lot stronger than their record suggests. They lose too many one-goal games.

I find goal differential to be rather meaningless tbh. It's much like the pythagorean record in baseball. Blowing out a team one game 7-2 has no predictive value whatsoever as to how that team will fair in subsequent games where injuries and rosters are ever changing.

Not only is goal differential flawed in the sense it doesn't tell us much, but the goal differential itself can be misleading. For example, early in the beginning of the year we had a negative goal differential despite outplaying nearly everyone, so it's bad that goals scored one game are not indicative of the next game, but how the differential came about in the first place is also misleading. However, it's not completely without merit, you obviously can't be hugely in the negative and still make the playoffs, you do have to outscore your opponents to win games, but it's not nearly as valuable as some would like to believe. I agree that it's a good clue that the habs are better than their record indicates, how much better is where the problem lies.

Every year the Jays had an outstanding Pythagorean record and finished anywhere from 3-4 in the division under JP Ricciardi. Interesting to discuss, but not very meaningful in the end.

Dom 01-27-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 43191695)
Sportsclubstats operates by simulating six million seasons then counting which proportion has team X making the playoffs.

While it's mathematically possible that Boston might miss, it only occured in 540 out of 6 000 000 -- far less than 0.05%, so it was rounded up.

It also assumes that teams will remain as good as they were from the start of the season to now, which is why Boston's most likely record until the end is 25-8-2 and Montreal is 18-12-3.

habsjunkie2* 01-27-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habit11 (Post 43191627)
That would explain the 9% jump from the previous day. Habs' increased their goal differential by 5 against the Wings.

That's the flaw in this metric and many other statistics. The 5 extra goals against Detroit doesn't really increase our chances at all, but if you use something as arbitrary as goal differential it would imply that our chances got that much better, when really, they barely improved at all.

Dom 01-27-2012 02:32 PM

The simulation simply weighted the Habs a bit more with this new data and gave an average of 1 or 2 wins more for each of the 6 million runs.

I think the best way to use the site is to see where the simulations projet the points threshold to make the playoffs in the east. Right now it says it is around 90 points. The Habs therefore need a 20-10-3 or similar record until the end.

Talks to Goalposts 01-27-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 (Post 43192283)
I find goal differential to be rather meaningless tbh. It's much like the pythagorean record in baseball. Blowing out a team one game 7-2 has no predictive value whatsoever as to how that team will fair in subsequent games where injuries and rosters are ever changing.

Not only is goal differential flawed in the sense it doesn't tell us much, but the goal differential itself can be misleading. For example, early in the beginning of the year we had a negative goal differential despite outplaying nearly everyone, so it's bad that goals scored one game are not indicative of the next game, but how the differential came about in the first place is also misleading. However, it's not completely without merit, you obviously can't be hugely in the negative and still make the playoffs, you do have to outscore your opponents to win games, but it's not nearly as valuable as some would like to believe. I agree that it's a good clue that the habs are better than their record indicates, how much better is where the problem lies.

Every year the Jays had an outstanding Pythagorean record and finished anywhere from 3-4 in the division under JP Ricciardi. Interesting to discuss, but not very meaningful in the end.

Its still better than predicting based off team record, which should tell you how reliable using that is.

And the Jays were always a good team in a ridiculous division. That's going to heavily distort the result.

Le Tricolore 01-27-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverik (Post 43191887)
So your telling me there's a chance?

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...resachance.gif

First thing I thought of.

uiCk 01-27-2012 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 (Post 43192283)
I find goal differential to be rather meaningless tbh. It's much like the pythagorean record in baseball. Blowing out a team one game 7-2 has no predictive value whatsoever as to how that team will fair in subsequent games where injuries and rosters are ever changing.

One game sample ? no **** the predictive value is basically useless, it's not meant for 1 game samples.
Quote:

Not only is goal differential flawed in the sense it doesn't tell us much, but the goal differential itself can be misleading. For example, early in the beginning of the year we had a negative goal differential despite outplaying nearly everyone, so it's bad that goals scored one game are not indicative of the next game, but how the differential came about in the first place is also misleading. However, it's not completely without merit, you obviously can't be hugely in the negative and still make the playoffs, you do have to outscore your opponents to win games, but it's not nearly as valuable as some would like to believe. I agree that it's a good clue that the habs are better than their record indicates, how much better is where the problem lies.

Every year the Jays had an outstanding Pythagorean record and finished anywhere from 3-4 in the division under JP Ricciardi. Interesting to discuss, but not very meaningful in the end.
We maintained a close to nil GD, the jump was due to +5 and a win, and a win against a team that was, statistically, supposed to win that game, by alot i'm assuming, that the 16% chance of making prior to the win was in large part due to the fact it factored the low probabilities of winning that game.

Meaningfulness, well, that's just like your opinion man.

Richiebottles 01-27-2012 03:18 PM

Well I know one thing that has 100 % odds.

http://didgomezscore.com/

shortcat1 01-27-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweat (Post 43190041)
Whatever the chances are, I think it's important we move some of our expiring contracts before the Habs get to close to a playoff spot. Guys like Campoli, Gill and Moen. I wouldn't even be against moving Kostitsyn for the right return.
Even if Montreal did move these 4 guys, I don't think it significantly lowers their chances for a miracle run to the playoffs.
If Montreal waits to long, they may end up close enough to a playoff spot that that moving anyone initiates a media frenzy.

The only 'fear' I have regarding to letting loose some or all of these players (and maybe others) is that Mr. Gauthier will pull a 'Bob Gainey' and just let them go without trying to get something in return (ie. Mark Streit & to a lesser extent, Sheldon Souray).

I don't think he'll do that since he's already signed a player during the season which was, in Mr. Gainey' way, a thing that wasn't done.

habsjunkie2* 01-27-2012 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uiCk (Post 43193541)
One game sample ? no **** the predictive value is basically useless, it's not meant for 1 game samples.


We maintained a close to nil GD, the jump was due to +5 and a win, and a win against a team that was, statistically, supposed to win that game, by alot i'm assuming, that the 16% chance of making prior to the win was in large part due to the fact it factored the low probabilities of winning that game.

Meaningfulness, well, that's just like your opinion man.

No, it's not an opinion. Obviously I used an extreme case of one game to highlight the fact that it means very little, it doesn't change the point. These give you a little insight to what's going on in the bigger picture, nothing more.


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