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-   -   Gauthier article (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1093663)

Steve Shutt 01-30-2012 03:23 PM

Gauthier article
 
http://thefranchise.ca/rumble/in-def...-gauthier.html

Might be a bit old but I thought it was well-written

FiveForDrawingBlood 01-30-2012 03:42 PM

Sounds good on paper but the team is not responding to his moves. Team is turning into a circus under Gauthier's command

WestIslander 01-30-2012 03:44 PM

I don't care what people say about what he did, all I know is the following are reasons why we are where we are this season and it all falls on Gauthier's shoulders:

1) Not re-signing Hamrlik (even though he wanted the third year as well) and letting him walk for nothing, he was the shutdown defenseman in Montreal for the last 4 seasons and was able to shutdown Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin and Crosy in 2009/2010.

2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

3) Not re-inforcing the defense in October when he knew Markov would not start the season or play for at least a month or two, at that point he should of dealt a young player or draft pick for a proven defenseman that can play on the top 3 with Gorges and Subban.

Besides that, I think that Gauthier's day's in Montreal are close to done and this coming from the guy that called the Cammalleri trade a month before it happened, I think that Gauthier will be fired the week of the "post mortum" in Montreal that we have all grown custom to.

The Kremelin Wall* 01-30-2012 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 43302299)
2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

That is 100% Molson's call. Gauthier can't do anything about it.

habs03 01-30-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 43302299)
I don't care what people say about what he did, all I know is the following are reasons why we are where we are this season and it all falls on Gauthier's shoulders:

1) Not re-signing Hamrlik (even though he wanted the third year as well) and letting him walk for nothing, he was the shutdown defenseman in Montreal for the last 4 seasons and was able to shutdown Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin and Crosy in 2009/2010.

2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

3) Not re-inforcing the defense in October when he knew Markov would not start the season or play for at least a month or two, at that point he should of dealt a young player or draft pick for a proven defenseman that can play on the top 3 with Gorges and Subban.

Besides that, I think that Gauthier's day's in Montreal are close to done and this coming from the guy that called the Cammalleri trade a month before it happened, I think that Gauthier will be fired the week of the "post mortum" in Montreal that we have all grown custom to.

Point 1: Hamrlik has been pretty bad with the Caps, and will probaly be even worst next season.

Point 2: Before PG signed Campoli we had over 5M in cap space with nothing to spend it on. So I'm not sure why we needed to dump Gomez last off-season when there wasn't anything to spend the money on. Now if Gomez isn't gone by this off-season we might have an issue, but during the summer, it was better to keep him and see if he can rebound.

FlyingKostitsyn 01-30-2012 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 43302299)

2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

I'm not a blind Gomez fanboy but sending him to the minors this offseason without giving him another chance would have been reactionary and unwise. Even if he hasn't helped much this year he can still play and we lack depth at the moment. I don't think we could have signed any key free agent with his salary either and there is no point in having cap space if its not used.

Next year is different because he's had his chance and we are going to have more NHL ready players. I'm sure he's the first to go if we can sign a key player.

Remember we started the year with Engqvist penciled in the lineup and had to acquire Nokelainen. We are very thin at center. Say one of Eller, Desharnais or Plekanec gets injured and we don't have Gomez. We would be stuck with Engqvist on the third line and that definitely is no fun. Gomez could not be recalled because he would be snatched on re-entry and we would definitely lose him and get stuck with 3.5m useless cap hit.

llamateizer 01-30-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 43302299)
I don't care what people say about what he did, all I know is the following are reasons why we are where we are this season and it all falls on Gauthier's shoulders:

1) Not re-signing Hamrlik (even though he wanted the third year as well) and letting him walk for nothing, he was the shutdown defenseman in Montreal for the last 4 seasons and was able to shutdown Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin and Crosy in 2009/2010.

2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

3) Not re-inforcing the defense in October when he knew Markov would not start the season or play for at least a month or two, at that point he should of dealt a young player or draft pick for a proven defenseman that can play on the top 3 with Gorges and Subban.

Besides that, I think that Gauthier's day's in Montreal are close to done and this coming from the guy that called the Cammalleri trade a month before it happened, I think that Gauthier will be fired the week of the "post mortum" in Montreal that we have all grown custom to.

1) Hamrlik is getting old (37 yo)
7pts with WSH playing on the 2nd PP wave


2) Molson said No! what can you do? I give you 10 millions in cap space. what do you sign with that money? (Richards was sure to sign with NYR)

3) He signed Campoli.
What you mean by young player? Leblanc/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Galagher?
a pick rarely gets you a top 3 proven D.

All-Star 01-30-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestIslander (Post 43302299)
I don't care what people say about what he did, all I know is the following are reasons why we are where we are this season and it all falls on Gauthier's shoulders:

1) Not re-signing Hamrlik (even though he wanted the third year as well) and letting him walk for nothing, he was the shutdown defenseman in Montreal for the last 4 seasons and was able to shutdown Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin and Crosy in 2009/2010.

2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

3) Not re-inforcing the defense in October when he knew Markov would not start the season or play for at least a month or two, at that point he should of dealt a young player or draft pick for a proven defenseman that can play on the top 3 with Gorges and Subban.

Besides that, I think that Gauthier's day's in Montreal are close to done and this coming from the guy that called the Cammalleri trade a month before it happened, I think that Gauthier will be fired the week of the "post mortum" in Montreal that we have all grown custom to.

1) I agree that it sucks in hind-sight, but Markov was supposed to be ready by the start of the season and Hamrlik was getting old...

2) Like The Kremlin Wall said...

3) I realize that teams are falling all over each other to trade away top three D's in October for unproven prospects/players and/or 2nd to 7th round picks, but hum... oh wait...:skeptic:

Steve Shutt 01-30-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood (Post 43302197)
1) Not re-signing Hamrlik (even though he wanted the third year as well) and letting him walk for nothing, he was the shutdown defenseman in Montreal for the last 4 seasons and was able to shutdown Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin and Crosy in 2009/2010.

I don't have any issue with this one. He gave the ice time to Diaz, Emelin, and Weber. At some point you need to give youth a chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood (Post 43302197)
2) Not having the guts to buy out, trade or send Gomez to the minors after a pathetic season last year and showing the team and hockey world that having less than 40 points in a season while make over $7,000,000.00 is acceptable.

He inherited Gainey's mess on this one. No GM would give him anything of value. I think you give Gomez a shot and if he fails to deliver than maybe you bury him. The way it worked out Gomez got injured and his salary has been pretty much a non-issue as a result. He seems to be playing better with Bourque and Pleks. Hard to fault Gauthier on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood (Post 43302197)
3) Not re-inforcing the defense in October when he knew Markov would not start the season or play for at least a month or two, at that point he should of dealt a young player or draft pick for a proven defenseman that can play on the top 3 with Gorges and Subban.

Perhaps Montreal's medical staff should take the blame and not Gauthier. Sounds like he thought it was a short term issue. He picked up Campoli for nothing and later grabbed Kaberle when it looked more serious. Both were good acquisitions considering what we payed.

In the end, I think Montreal Media is really stoking the fires. Gauthier has done fine and everyone just needs to take it down a notch or two

Em Ancien 01-30-2012 04:19 PM

You can look at the moves separately, or look at the big picture.

Tell you what. Only one of them actually matter when it comes to our place in the standings.

Agnostic 01-30-2012 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shutt (Post 43301551)
http://thefranchise.ca/rumble/in-def...-gauthier.html

Might be a bit old but I thought it was well-written

No balance and no credibility. Simply hogwash.

How can someone list numerous "positives" with not a single negative to balance it off, and reconcile that with the team's current situation. An idiot or a Gauthier family member can do it, nobody else.

All-Star 01-30-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Em Ancien (Post 43303563)
You can look at the moves separately, or look at the big picture.

Tell you what. Only one of them actually matter when it comes to our place in the standings.

The big picture is composed of a series of individual moves, so not sure what you're getting at here.

All-Star 01-30-2012 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic (Post 43303923)
No balance and no credibility. Simply hogwash.

How can someone list numerous "positives" with not a single negative to balance it off, and reconcile that with the team's current situation. An idiot or a Gauthier family member can do it, nobody else.

If the article had been written in a bubble, you'd have a point, but as the title implies, the negatives are easily accessible from other sources (including this board)...

HTTP 400 01-30-2012 04:45 PM

I have nothing against the trades Gauthier did as a GM. To me, it's not what he did that is problematic, it's how he did it.

From the Blair Betts affair to the Cammalleri trade, including Campoli's signature and Pearn and Martin firing, everything looked improvised.

Maybe Gauthier knows exactly what he's doing, but that's not how it looks from the outside.

To be strong, the structure of an organization like a hockey franchise is quite the opposite of a building, it needs not to have solid ground, but a solid roof. When the top looks shaky, you can't expect too much from the rest.

If I have to point one person for this mediocre season, no doubt it's Gauthier, even if his trades weren't bad at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Star (Post 43304093)
The big picture is composed of a series of individual moves, so not sure what you're getting at here.

Actually, the whole is always more than the sum of it's part. That's what he means. So even if you single out every decisions and make them sound like they are positive, the Habs are on pace for their worst season since... I don't even know! But you get the point. Hockey teams are complex systems, you can't understand them by looking at their parts without taking in account their interrelations, what they create in the system as a whole.

Although, you could make a point saying these moves will help the Habs is a near future. But that would be speculation.

Steve Shutt 01-30-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic (Post 43303923)
No balance and no credibility. Simply hogwash.

How can someone list numerous "positives" with not a single negative to balance it off, and reconcile that with the team's current situation. An idiot or a Gauthier family member can do it, nobody else.

The end of the article highlights 4 trades that the author feels Gauthier lost.

Em Ancien 01-30-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Star (Post 43304093)
The big picture is composed of a series of individual moves, so not sure what you're getting at here.

Meant as the team's peformance.

Yeah, he made defendable moves all his time here, yet the team's had a serious dropoff in the standings.

It's ok that he isn't making complete bonehead moves and is willing to wait it out, but it's not like he's done much in terms of getting the team somewhere. The team is in a bad spot at the moment and seems very unprofessional at times.

Then there's the fact that despite Gauthier has made plenty of defendable-ok-understandable moves, he also has given away a 20-goal, 50 point player in his early 20s for absolutely nothing. He's also failed to make the blueline and power play efficient enough to work through injuries.

Goat's ok, I'm just not sure he's the one to set this thing back on track.

Gabe84 01-30-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewBACHa (Post 43302943)
3) He signed Campoli.

I'm putting emphasis on this because a lot of people seem to skip over it.

Let's play a game. You are Mr. Gauthier. It is July 1st. You have these defensemen under contract:

-Markov who you think will be ready in time for the season, that's what the doctors told you (what else should you base your opinion on?).

-Gorges, solid defensive defenseman. Can play #2 minutes.

-Subban, a young, rising star in the NHL.

-Gill, whose heroics in the playoffs gave him the reputation of one of the best defensive defenseman in the league, especially on the PK.

-Spacek, reliable veteran.

Then, for the last spot, you have 3 young guys battling it out. Diaz, Emelin and Weber.

So that's 8 guys that you can have in the line-up. Signing one more defenseman makes no sense at this point.

Fast-forward to September. It's the training camp. You are happy with Diaz' camp so far. Same with Emelin and Weber, although to a lesser extent. Problem is, Markov is taking time to heal, he hasn't participated in any drills or intra games. You'd rather not play 2 of the 3 young guys every game, so what do you do?

You sign the last decent option available on the FA market: Campoli.

There. This defense can hold the fort until Markov comes back.

Sadly, the guy you JUST signed gets injured on a very iffy play during his first pre-season game. You're stuck doing exactly what you wanted to avoid: icing a very young and inexperienced defense. No more good options on the market. At least, not players you'd play over the young guys. Nobody wants to trade a decent defenseman to you early in the season, because they all want to see how their team gels. They don't want to take the risk to get a guy at the end of the pre-season because they won't have time to evaluate him.

Alright, game over. What was Gauthier supposed to do? He did the right thing. It just backfired. I think he played the whole thing well. He couldn't know Markov would take so much time when the specialists themselves told him he'd be ready.

uiCk 01-30-2012 06:57 PM

^ pretty much this. Campoli was signed as depth, period. He's still around, not playing, and just there for insurance policy.

MasterDecoy 01-30-2012 07:12 PM

i have no problem with him trade-wise. could be better, but could be worse. thing is, the part of the job that goat reeeeaaaaaaally sucks at, is the most important part of his job description in montreal: public relations.

but the cluster**** that is this season starting with the missunderestimation (thank you bush) of the cunneyworth hiring (add the martin firing, the timing of the cammy trade et cetera) is grounds for firing. he doesn't seem to know how to handle people or thinks it's not important. period. montreal needs a GM that can talk to the media and the fans.

the circus-like atmosphere surrounding the franchise at the moment is 100% goat's responsibility

HTTP 400 01-30-2012 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDecoy (Post 43309801)
i have no problem with him trade-wise. could be better, but could be worse. thing is, the part of the job that goat reeeeaaaaaaally sucks at, is the most important part of his job description in montreal: public relations.

but the cluster**** that is this season starting with the missunderestimation (thank you bush) of the cunneyworth hiring (add the martin firing, the timing of the cammy trade et cetera) is grounds for firing. he doesn't seem to know how to handle people or thinks it's not important. period. montreal needs a GM that can talk to the media and the fans.

the circus-like atmosphere surrounding the franchise at the moment is 100% goat's responsibility

Precisely. Habs went through 2 very bad sequences this seasons. The first 8 games (1-5-2) when the team needed to adapt after the loss of an experienced center and top-4 dmen , and the 8 games coinciding with Martin's firing (1-7-0).

Take out these games, and the Habs are way closer to the 1st overall position than the 1st overall draft pick.

Both of these sequences are directly Gauthier's responsibility. He made those choices, and he handled them badly. What I hate about him is that he refused to take part of the blame. Now, he hides behind the structure, putting all the pressure on his rookie coach and his young team. I don't like that.

OneSharpMarble 01-30-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls (Post 43310509)
Precisely. Habs went through 2 very bad sequences this seasons. The first 8 games (1-5-2) when the team needed to adapt after the loss of an experienced center and top-4 dmen , and the 8 games coinciding with Martin's firing (1-7-0).

Take out these games, and the Habs are way closer to the 1st overall position than the 1st overall draft pick.

Both of these sequences are directly Gauthier's responsibility. He made those choices, and he handled them badly. What I hate about him is that he refused to take part of the blame. Now, he hides behind the structure, putting all the pressure on his rookie coach and his young team. I don't like that.

Nah both of those sequences are martins fault for being a **** coach. Let me guess it is PG's fault the team can't run a power play is it? Martin refused to budge from his awful defensive style play at the beginning of the season leading to a awful start and only changed when his job was threatened and Pearn was canned. He slipped back into his old ways and this time there was no more excuses and he was fired.

End of story we move on and no one misses JM because frankly he is not an NHL level coach anymore.

hockeyfan2k11 01-30-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble (Post 43310881)
Nah both of those sequences are martins fault for being a **** coach. Let me guess it is PG's fault the team can't run a power play is it? Martin refused to budge from his awful defensive style play at the beginning of the season leading to a awful start and only changed when his job was threatened and Pearn was canned. He slipped back into his old ways and this time there was no more excuses and he was fired.

End of story we move on and no one misses JM because frankly he is not an NHL level coach anymore.

Err...pretty sure the team lacked a PP QB. Who's responsible for that one? Mr. Gauthier.

OneSharpMarble 01-30-2012 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 (Post 43310983)
Err...pretty sure the team lacked a PP QB. Who's responsible for that one? Mr. Gauthier.

We had one, his name was Subban. I know he doesn't look the part but long ago in a galaxy far far away PK used to hit the net.


Oh wait Gauthiers use of the force clouded Subbans mind and turned him to the unscoring side? Markov used to be decent on the PP too and was supposed to play, damn Gauthier causing Markovs meedical complications!

Bullsmith 01-30-2012 07:51 PM

Gauthier has shown some real improvement in his ability to bring in talent at fair to limited value. No home runs (maybe Cole, but it's early in that contract), but a lot of competent moves, i.e. Schneider, Wiz.

Thing is he's shown zero vision in terms of team-building, of putting a group together that can battle successfully as a unit. Maybe he can be trusted to turn some current players into future assets, but he can't be relied upon to build a winning team. That's what his track record says to me.

HTTP 400 01-30-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble (Post 43310881)
Nah both of those sequences are martins fault for being a **** coach. Let me guess it is PG's fault the team can't run a power play is it? Martin refused to budge from his awful defensive style play at the beginning of the season leading to a awful start and only changed when his job was threatened and Pearn was canned. He slipped back into his old ways and this time there was no more excuses and he was fired.

End of story we move on and no one misses JM because frankly he is not an NHL level coach anymore.

I never liked Martin as a coach. And I always thought he wasn't the right coach for this team.

But when the coach is the problem, you expect a quick turnaround when you fire him. That's what happened last year with New-Jersey, and that's what happened this year with the Blues. That's exactly what didn't happen with the Habs. Actually, it got worse.

Martin is not the one to blame for putting Plekanec at the point. He showed before he can organize a successful PP. He had nothing to work with this year.


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