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-   -   Expand the DUB! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=109871)

MikeS 10-21-2004 08:33 PM

Expand the DUB!
 
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Victoria
Eugene (or other coastal Oregon, south of Portland)


One more for each division. Two at a time, so each conference can add two and stay "balanced."

Is there enough talent?

I think so.... :handclap:

Avery4Byng* 10-21-2004 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeS
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Victoria
Eugene (or other coastal Oregon, south of Portland)


One more for each division. Two at a time, so each conference can add two and stay "balanced."

Is there enough talent?

I think so.... :handclap:


I dont know if this is a topic that should be opened.... Apparently alot of people say the league already is "too watered down". Like look at some of the fringe players, there is no doubt they should be developing in Midget, Bantam and/or Junior B still.... But I agree it would be nice for the league to be geographically expanded for the better.

Greg7 10-21-2004 09:04 PM

Without making any judgements on whether or not the league SHOULD expand, I think it's unlikely that it WILL expand in the near future. The WHL is happy with the current alignment and locations, and does not want to water down the talent level. Whether that is right or wrong may be up for debate, but I don't think there is any chance of it actually happening. I like it the way it is, but that's really a matter of personal taste. I just wouldn't want to see the talent level dropped any further, and I'm not sure there are great potential locations for teams. Winnipeg could support a team but it would hurt the Moose, Edmonton had a team and it failed and moved to Cranbrook, and Victoria just got an ECHL team. I have no idea how it would do in Southern Oregon, is there enough hockey fans in that area to support a team? In any case, I think it's a moot point, as the WHL is not looking to expand despite interest recently being shown by at least two of the cities you mentioned, Victoria and Winnipeg.

BCCHL inactive 10-21-2004 11:40 PM

If teams had the dollars to travel by air, I might agree. However, travelling by bus, a road trip from Prince George to Eugene for a conference matchup would be hell. The WHL is already spread out enough that there has been an unbalanced schedule for the past few season...IE: West Div. teams visit East while East doesn't visit West..it switches the next season and so on. Hell, BC's Kootenay Ice play Central's Calgary Hitmen more than they do their own division rivals.

As far as talent goes, it is an interesting debate for sure, but I think the WHL is fine at 20 teams.

What I could stand to see, is a team like Moose Jaw or Swift Current move to Edmonton ...yeah, the Ice failed miserably there, but that's because the Oilers drove them out. Lately, it has been the Oilers interested in owning a WHL team. It would work wonders in that case.

Orv 10-22-2004 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
What I could stand to see, is a team like Moose Jaw or Swift Current move to Edmonton ...yeah, the Ice failed miserably there, but that's because the Oilers drove them out. Lately, it has been the Oilers interested in owning a WHL team. It would work wonders in that case.

I totally disagree with the moving of any teams, especially to Edmonton. Edmonton has the Oilers (when this stupid lockout ends) and now have the Roadrunners. I just don't think that Edmonton can support three major hockey teams. Can you also imagine the scheduling conflicts. Personally I'd be surprised to see Edmonton support the Oilers and Roadrunners when both teams are in full swing.

I think that the DUB has a good balance of teams and should not expand or move any teams unless absolutely necessary.

BCCHL inactive 10-22-2004 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orv
I totally disagree with the moving of any teams, especially to Edmonton. Edmonton has the Oilers (when this stupid lockout ends) and now have the Roadrunners. I just don't think that Edmonton can support three major hockey teams. Can you also imagine the scheduling conflicts. Personally I'd be surprised to see Edmonton support the Oilers and Roadrunners when both teams are in full swing.

I think that the DUB has a good balance of teams and should not expand or move any teams unless absolutely necessary.

The WHL does have problems in Moose Jaw and Swift Current. The Warriors and Broncos are already candidates for relocation. Where else are you going to move either of those teams and keep perfect alignment?

Prince George could be a problem down the road if their owner doesn't get his head out of his ass...but there is really nowhere for the team to go to that the WHL would approve of.

Emerald City Bruin 10-22-2004 04:34 AM

There was an article running around HF somewhere suggesting that Edmonton might swap the Runners for the Sask Blades. I found that pretty interesting. If I can find it again, I'll post the link.

If you move MJ or SC, take the E out of Vic, put the Warriors or Broncos there and move Koot back to the Eastern Conference where they belong.

Guy Flaming 10-22-2004 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinStuckInTheEye
There was an article running around HF somewhere suggesting that Edmonton might swap the Runners for the Sask Blades. I found that pretty interesting. If I can find it again, I'll post the link.

If you move MJ or SC, take the E out of Vic, put the Warriors or Broncos there and move Koot back to the Eastern Conference where they belong.


That's been a topic of discussion here for a loooong time and makes a lot of sense, IF the owner(s) of the blades are interested. Attendance figures suggest that Saskatoon isn't supporting them as well as they used to but just buying and moving the team would be worse. By swapping the WHL team for an AHL team, Saskatoon gets a higher level of hockey, with a connection to the closest NHL team (there are lots of Oiler fans in S'toon) and Edmonton gets another team to fill the building but with an even greater diffeence in demographic thatn between NHL/AHL fans.

It's a win-win.

The WHL team failed here because they had zero support from the Oilers and vice versa. They competed instead of cross promoted. That wouldn't happen this time, the Oilers want a junior team.

The thread that this came up in most recently was the Edmonton media round table one.

Emerald City Bruin 10-22-2004 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
The thread that this came up in most recently was the Edmonton media round table one.

Yeah that was it. Thanks.

saskhab 10-25-2004 12:02 PM

The only reason the Blades aren't fully supported is because of where the Credit Union Centre (still tough to say that) is located... It's half way to North Battleford for Christ's sake! Besides, attendance is up this year and didn't go down last year, despite the team only winning 7 games. The worst of the attendance troubles is over.

Moose Jaw and Swift Current are community owned. There is little financial gain for people to sell those teams. Edmonton had a $5m offer on the table for any team that wanted to re-locate, thinking a team like Swift Current would bite. They didn't, there was little incentive to do so.

Swift is a tough market, but I think it'd be a terrible idea for the league to abandon the small centres like that.

Back to Saskatoon, I can't see AHL being any more successful than the WHL out of the CUC. Terrible city planning is making it tough to grow the fanbase of a team that has a lot of history in the city. And Saskatoon has consistently not supported pro sports teams.

goteam 10-25-2004 06:42 PM

It was in the Saskatoon paper this weekend that Blades owner Jack Brodsky has not at all talked to any member of the Oilers' ownership group aside from one instance and that was to ask Patrick LaForge to come to Saskatoon to talk at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon where he would speak about the NHL Lockout, that's it.

Guy Flaming 10-26-2004 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goteam
It was in the Saskatoon paper this weekend that Blades owner Jack Brodsky has not at all talked to any member of the Oilers' ownership group aside from one instance and that was to ask Patrick LaForge to come to Saskatoon to talk at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon where he would speak about the NHL Lockout, that's it.


Just out of curiosity, how would it go over in S'toon if he came out and said, "yeah we've talked about things."

Wouldn't he get roasted? I'm not going to say he has talked to Edmonton because I have no knowledge of that, but I wouldn't expect him to admit it if he did either.

There are a few very reputable media people in Edmonton who have mentioned the rumor and where there's smoke there usually is fire. Maybe it won't happen but if it does, it sure wouldn't surprise me.

Free Torts 10-26-2004 07:05 PM

Why not move a team to Surrey BC? Huge market for sports and all we've got are the South Surrey Eagles, who get no press.

Emerald City Bruin 10-26-2004 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Pedersen
Why not move a team to Surrey BC? Huge market for sports and all we've got are the South Surrey Eagles, who get no press.

1200 seats? I know attendance is bad. It's not that bad.

BCCHL inactive 10-26-2004 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Pedersen
Why not move a team to Surrey BC? Huge market for sports and all we've got are the South Surrey Eagles, who get no press.

That would be the equivalent to having a team in Edmonton and moving a team to Sherwood Park....or Calgary having two WHL teams.

In other words, it isn't going to happen, nor should it happen.

MikeS 10-28-2004 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Pedersen
Why not move a team to Surrey BC? Huge market for sports and all we've got are the South Surrey Eagles, who get no press.


Isn't New West Minster just across the bridge from Surrey? How did the Bruins draw in their time there?


Everett is only 25 miles from Seattle, and on a weekend night when both teams are home, 14,000 have been in attendance between the two...mind you, that is not every night, but western Washington is not the hockey hotbed that the lower mainland of BC is.

I would think of them as separate "markets" (I hate that term!)...

YellHockey* 10-28-2004 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
That would be the equivalent to having a team in Edmonton and moving a team to Sherwood Park....or Calgary having two WHL teams.

In other words, it isn't going to happen, nor should it happen.

I'd say its closer to Toronto having an OHL team and Brampton or Mississauga or Oshawa having an OHL team as well. Or maybe like Ottawa having an OHL team and Gatineau having a team in the Q.

Emerald City Bruin 10-28-2004 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeS
Isn't New West Minster just across the bridge from Surrey? How did the Bruins draw in their time there?


Everett is only 25 miles from Seattle, and on a weekend night when both teams are home, 14,000 have been in attendance between the two...mind you, that is not every night, but western Washington is not the hockey hotbed that the lower mainland of BC is.

I would think of them as separate "markets" (I hate that term!)...

Everett Events Center = 8500 seats

South Surrey Arena = 1200 seats

Big difference.

Emerald City Bruin 10-28-2004 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
I'd say its closer to Toronto having an OHL team and Brampton or Mississauga or Oshawa having an OHL team as well.

No it's not. Metro Toronto has 2.25 times as many people than Metro Vancouver. Toronto has a greater opportunity to fill arenas as there are simply more people.

saskhab 10-28-2004 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Just out of curiosity, how would it go over in S'toon if he came out and said, "yeah we've talked about things."

Wouldn't he get roasted? I'm not going to say he has talked to Edmonton because I have no knowledge of that, but I wouldn't expect him to admit it if he did either.

There are a few very reputable media people in Edmonton who have mentioned the rumor and where there's smoke there usually is fire. Maybe it won't happen but if it does, it sure wouldn't surprise me.

That is true, but the article did also have quotes from Oil management (can't remember which guy) that they were not moving the Roadrunners. They felt they had an ideal situation going with the AHL affiliate in the same city as the NHL team. They did, however, express interest in a WHL team still, probably for the suburban areas; not out of Rexall Place.

The fact is, Saskatoon has NEVER supported pro sports. We like our local college, junior, high school, and the Hilltops. SaskPlace was built in a terrible location, dooming any new franchises that want to operate out of there (there have been a few minor pro basketball teams that have failed). The AHL wouldn't be any different, despite it being hockey. The Blades can survive because of their history. A new team wouldn't.

YellHockey* 10-28-2004 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinStuckInTheEye
No it's not. Metro Toronto has 2.25 times as many people than Metro Vancouver. Toronto has a greater opportunity to fill arenas as there are simply more people.

OK. Metro Toronto has 4 CHL teams to Metro Vancouver's 1 team.

And how do you explain Metro Ottawa which is 1/2.25 of the size of Metro Vancouver, having 2 CHL teams to Metro Vancouver's 1 team?

VO #23 10-28-2004 07:05 PM

There is absolutely no need for further expansion of the WHL.

Emerald City Bruin 10-28-2004 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
OK. Metro Toronto has 4 CHL teams to Metro Vancouver's 1 team.

And how do you explain Metro Ottawa which is 1/2.25 of the size of Metro Vancouver, having 2 CHL teams to Metro Vancouver's 1 team?

:shakehead

Different league. But if you want to compare the two ok. Tell me where you would put the 3000+ fans of the Olympiques or the 6000+ fans of the 67's in Surrey? Unless I'm mistaken, there is no arena in Surrey able to hold those crowds nor are there plans to build one.

Also, the crowds of the Giants now are big but what happens when the Canucks come back? Do you think they would support 2 WHL teams and a NHL one?

YellHockey* 10-28-2004 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinStuckInTheEye
:shakehead

Different league. But if you want to compare the two ok. Tell me where you would put the 3000+ fans of the Olympiques or the 6000+ fans of the 67's in Surrey? Unless I'm mistaken, there is no arena in Surrey able to hold those crowds nor are there plans to build one.

I'm not aware of the arena situation in Surrey, and most of what I said was based upon the notion that there is, or could be, a WHL calibre rink in Surrey.

Quote:

Also, the crowds of the Giants now are big but what happens when the Canucks come back? Do you think they would support 2 WHL teams and a NHL one?
How is that different from the teams in Toronto or Ottawa? They both have NHL teams to compete with.

BCCHL inactive 10-28-2004 11:34 PM

If there is any place in the Lower Mainland who has a WHL-capable arena, it's Chilliwack. They just opened a new arena that seats roughly 3,000. Chilliwack is more do-able than Surrey because it is roughly 45 minutes outside of Greater Vancouver. Fans in places like Abbotsford, Langley, Hope, and other smaller centres in the area might rather go to Chilliwack to see a game than into Surrey and Vancouver.

The reason the OHL is successful with 4 teams in Greater Toronto is because the teams, with the exception of Bramptom, have been around for many years. The league has had time to grow. The WHL is relatively new in Vancouver. Yes, there used to be the New Westminster Bruins, but that was also back when the WHL didn't depend on the marketing and ticket sales that it does now.


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