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-   -   Which young guy have progressed under Dean? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1103195)

no name 02-10-2012 12:38 AM

Which young guy have progressed under Dean?
 
Unfortunately, I feel that under Dean's reighn the development has come to a hault or even gone backwards. Every young guy have taken steps backwards or have simply not developed whatsoever. Really, I can't think of one player who has progressed.

Why is this? The system should help young players. Is it the players around them? I personally think that Dean has for 3 years preached that these young guys will carry the team and that he is not going to hurt the cap by adding impact guys in free agency. He's banked everything on the kids and in the process I feel he has set them backwards.

It's pretty obvious that it is in fact the Kings problem. Players leave and flourish. Players come and wet the bed. The players we have have spirit at first and then regress. It's not a matter of coinsidence anymore.

Dean's done. He's got to go. I've been diplomatic about it long enough. SJ fans and ex players were right about him.

FrozenKing18 02-10-2012 12:48 AM

Not counting Quick & Kopitar?

RonSwanson* 02-10-2012 12:50 AM

AMart
Richardson

sjmay* 02-10-2012 12:52 AM

Brown, Kopitar, Quick, Voynov, Lotkionov, Richardson, Lewis, Martinez, Johnson, Doughty,

Yea, not many on the current roster have progressed.....

drugold 02-10-2012 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896831)
Brown, Kopitar, Quick, Voynov, Lotkionov, Richardson, Lewis, Martinez, Johnson, Doughty,

Yea, not many on the current roster have progressed.....

Bernier?

Live in the Now 02-10-2012 12:53 AM

Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Martinez, Clifford, Voynov, Simmonds...there are a fair few. The problems are what happened to all the older players brought in and what happened to the young ones who left. I don't know why its gone south, but it has. There are some who are never going to pan out as expected. Jack, Richardson, and Lewis heavily fit into that category for me. That's just hockey.

sjmay* 02-10-2012 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drugold (Post 43896847)
Bernier?

Yep, him too...

bobafettish* 02-10-2012 12:56 AM

quick and bernier the rest regressed.

ScoreZeGoals 02-10-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896831)
Brown, Kopitar, Quick, Voynov, Lotkionov, Richardson, Lewis, Martinez, Johnson, Doughty,

Yea, not many on the current roster have progressed.....

These are a reach

sjmay* 02-10-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 43896919)
quick and bernier the rest regressed.

Curious,

How did Voynov and Lotkionov regress? I mean...they are rookies playing regular minutes....pretty sure that's progress for those two...at least.

sjmay* 02-10-2012 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals (Post 43896945)
These are a reach

Forgot Clifford,

Funny how they are on the same line, or were.

I am happy as pie with those three, they are akin to the old "energy" line, not expected to score, but to tire the other team out.

They do that very very well.

bobafettish* 02-10-2012 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896951)
Curious,

How did Voynov and Lotkionov regress? I mean...they are rookies playing regular minutes....pretty sure that's progress for those two...at least.

i didnt mean everybody.

the question is hard to answer is becasue all these players are young and for the most part players progress as they get older. so ill say players who i think benefited under DL are the goalies.

ScoreZeGoals 02-10-2012 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896951)
Curious,

How did Voynov and Lotkionov regress? I mean...they are rookies playing regular minutes....pretty sure that's progress for those two...at least.

What exactly has Loktionov done at the NHL level? Sure he's playing here but in all honesty he shouldn't be. Loktionov will never thrive in this system. He's a skilled center who will never be above the 3rd line on this team. We are going to hurt his growth

CNS 02-10-2012 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 43896995)
i didnt mean everybody.

the question is hard to answer is becasue all these players are young and for the most part players progress as they get older. so ill say players who i think benefited under DL are the goalies.

I was just going to post this. Most of these guys progressed because of their own skill and getting more experience at higher levels. The better question would have been who advanced under the systems Crawford, Murray, and now Sutter have implemented as Dean has really no influence here.

drugold 02-10-2012 01:03 AM

Ponikarovsky-Handzus-Simmonds
Handzus infront of the net. Simmonds, Poni cycling, weakening the opponent

Smyth-Stoll-Williams
Smyth infront of the net. Stoll and Williams play making

whoever-Kopitar-Brown
Kopitar scoring like he does now, Brown spinning around and hitting

Our forwards seemed better suited to our style of play. Doughty and Johnson like to take blueline slappers which need net presence to be effective. This season is no different. Doughty and Johnson are still taking the slappers but no one big and tough enough is there. Thats my take. Anyone agree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live in the Now (Post 43896863)
I don't know why its gone south, but it has.


RonSwanson* 02-10-2012 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896973)
Forgot Clifford,

Funny how they are on the same line, or were.

I am happy as pie with those three, they are akin to the old "energy" line, not expected to score, but to tire the other team out.

They do that very very well.

Maybe I expected more from a first round pick (Lewis) than for him to become an energy player. I don't think he's really progressed much if any.

CNS 02-10-2012 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonSwanson (Post 43897111)
Maybe I expected more from a first round pick (Lewis) than for him to become an energy player. I don't think he's really progressed much if any.

You're expecting too much. Some first round picks are chosen because while they have potential to do some stuff offensively, they have other qualities that make them close to a lock for being an NHLer. Case and point is Tom Wilson in the 2012 draft. Looked at as a first rounder, in the early 20s range, and go look up his point totals.

sjmay* 02-10-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals (Post 43897017)
What exactly has Loktionov done at the NHL level? Sure he's playing here but in all honesty he shouldn't be. Loktionov will never thrive in this system. He's a skilled center who will never be above the 3rd line on this team. We are going to hurt his growth

Sorry, where you expecting Ryan Nugent Hopkins?

The kid has been solid defensively, has shown great puck control skills, and is playing well,

If that's not enough, either strap on a pair of blades, or lower your expectations.

CNS 02-10-2012 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43897183)
Sorry, where you expecting Ryan Nugent Hopkins?

The kid has been solid defensively, has shown great puck control skills, and is playing well,

If that's not enough, either strap on a pair of blades, or lower your expectations.

This. Datsyuk started on Detroits 4th line and worked his way up. Development doesn't take a set amount of time. Lokti will come around or be traded to a team that doesn't kill offense.

RonSwanson* 02-10-2012 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnshockey (Post 43897149)
You're expecting too much. Some first round picks are chosen because while they have potential to do some stuff offensively, they have other qualities that make them close to a lock for being an NHLer. Case and point is Tom Wilson in the 2012 draft. Looked at as a first rounder, in the early 20s range, and go look up his point totals.

Lewis is not first rounder material. There's not way around that.

CNS 02-10-2012 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonSwanson (Post 43897215)
Lewis is not first rounder material. There's not way around that.

At the time, he was. Was Patrick Stefan worthy of being drafted 1st overall? Drafting is a crapshoot. There's a reason you get Datsyuks and Lucs in late rounds and Stefans and Daigles in the first.

ScoreZeGoals 02-10-2012 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmay (Post 43896973)
Forgot Clifford,

Funny how they are on the same line, or were.

I am happy as pie with those three, they are akin to the old "energy" line, not expected to score, but to tire the other team out.

They do that very very well.

Lets see, your idea of progression is:

Lewis: a first round pick, turning into an energy guy who is on pace for single digit points at age 25

Richardson: A guy who is on pace for his third straight season of declining points. He had 27 two years ago, 19 last year, and is sitting at 5 this year. Hell, he had 22 points in his full rookie season in Colorado, but he's progressing just fine in our system

Loktionov: A offensive playmaker who has yet to score a goal and only has four points. Two years ago in only 19 games he had four goals and three assists, you know, before he got all crudded-up by Murray. Now, his so called "progression" that you rave about is stunted

JBernierFan 02-10-2012 01:23 AM

IMO, you have to count Simmonds. Right now he's thriving, but part of that was his development under the Kings system. You can't tell me that he wasn't getting better during the playoffs last year. Think of what he was when he first made the Kings team.

ScoreZeGoals 02-10-2012 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBernierFan (Post 43897325)
IMO, you have to count Simmonds. Right now he's thriving, but part of that was his development under the Kings system. You can't tell me that he wasn't getting better during the playoffs last year. Think of what he was when he first made the Kings team.

I totally agree that you have to count Simmonds, but with that said, I believe you have to not include Doughty. Doughty is a special talent who was ready to enter the NHL immediately and could have thrived on just about every team.

RonSwanson* 02-10-2012 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnshockey (Post 43897245)
At the time, he was. Was Patrick Stefan worthy of being drafted 1st overall? Drafting is a crapshoot. There's a reason you get Datsyuks and Lucs in late rounds and Stefans and Daigles in the first.

Stefan is a bust. Since you are comparing Lewis to Stefan, are you calling Lewis a bust?


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