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-   -   Report: NHL has contingency draft plan (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=110374)

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-25-2004 01:01 PM

Report: NHL has contingency draft plan
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns

"The draft is scheduled for June, but there won't be a draft until there is a new collective bargaining agreement, NHL executive vice president Bill Daly says. After a deal is in place, the league is expected to determine the draft order with a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams--last season's worst teams would have a greater chance of picking first."

Melrose_Jr. 10-25-2004 01:16 PM

If the best prospect of the past 1/4 century wasn't in that draft class, this would probably be a suitable resolution.

Fletch 10-25-2004 01:22 PM

You know what though, MJ...
 
there is no equitable way to conduct a draft without a season. This is what comes the closest to equitable, but it's very unfortunate since a team like the 'Yotes, which seemed to have improved on paper over the offseason, would be weighted ahead of the Rangers and thus have a better shot at Crosby even though it could be argued that the Rangers didn't improve over the offseason and stand to be a bottom 3, 4 or 5 team if there was a season.

True Blue 10-25-2004 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
This is what comes the closest to equitable, but it's very unfortunate since a team like the 'Yotes, which seemed to have improved on paper over the offseason, would be weighted ahead of the Rangers and thus have a better shot at Crosby even though it could be argued that the Rangers didn't improve over the offseason and stand to be a bottom 3, 4 or 5 team if there was a season.

What if it is not the 'Yotes, but Colarado or Detroit? Or the Flyers? Or the Devils? There should not be even a chance that ANY of the playoff teams land him. But a scenario like this makes it possible, however far remote.

xander 10-25-2004 01:40 PM

would the lottery just determine who picks first, or would they be drawing for every spot?

Fletch 10-25-2004 01:52 PM

Like I said TB...
 
there's no fair way to do it. But I don't really have a problem with some of the better teams getting a shot, since some of the worst teams than may have sprung ahead of them if there was a season get a better shot. There's no way of telling how the season will turn out. The only other fair way to do this is for Riz to license his software to the NHL to run a simulation season. Since the GMs may still be getting paid in this lockout, let them run their teams on EHM and we'll see how things turn out. I really don't see any other fair way to go about it.

Leetchie 10-25-2004 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xander
would the lottery just determine who picks first, or would they be drawing for every spot?

The lottery moves the winning team up up to four spots (obviously, #2 can't end up moving up more than one spot). The most a team can drop down is one spot (because of another team moving up).

Ex:

Prior to the lottery:
1 Pittsburgh
2 Washington
3 Chicago
4 Columbus
5 Phoenix
6 NY Rangers

If the Rangers were to win the lottery, they would move up to #2, and push the teams slated to go #2 through #5 down a spot.

1 Pittsburgh
2 NY Rangers
3 Washington
4 Chicago
5 Columbus
6 Phoenix

xander 10-25-2004 02:03 PM

i understand how the lottery works in normal cricumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. If only one team has the possiblility of moving up then I don't think that's very equitable at all. In that case they might as well just use the regular system with last years order since it's doubtful anfone out of the top 5 would get the first pick over all anyway. They should be drawing for atleast the first 5 induvidual sposts, this way there's more room for movement and we don't just get a strict repeat of last years draft.

I don't see why they wouldn't just wait till after the 2005 season and run two drafts based on that year and with differant lotteries. Atleast that way you wouldn't have teams that had signifigantly improved themselves (ie phoenix) drawing better than a team like the rangers or the bruins (who really get screwed over in this.)

of course, the most equitable solution: PLAY A SEASON!

pld459666 10-25-2004 02:14 PM

what if in this scenario
 
Washington landed the #1 pick?


:amazed: :amazed: :amazed: :amazed:

Crosby to Ovechkin, he socres
Ovechkin to Crosby to Fehr he Scores
Crosby scores
Ovechkin Scores
Fehr Scores

End of the first period... :shakehead

NYR469 10-25-2004 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leetchie
The lottery moves the winning team up up to four spots (obviously, #2 can't end up moving up more than one spot). The most a team can drop down is one spot (because of another team moving up).

Ex:

Prior to the lottery:
1 Pittsburgh
2 Washington
3 Chicago
4 Columbus
5 Phoenix
6 NY Rangers

If the Rangers were to win the lottery, they would move up to #2, and push the teams slated to go #2 through #5 down a spot.

1 Pittsburgh
2 NY Rangers
3 Washington
4 Chicago
5 Columbus
6 Phoenix

that is how the current lottery works for non-playoff teams but that is NOT what is being suggested in this article...based on this article if tb won the lottery they would jump from #30 to #1.

so the question, which i'm not sure the answer to, is will they use the lottery to determine all 30 spots or is pittsburgh guaranteed at worst the 2nd pick?

NYR469 10-25-2004 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xander
of course, the most equitable solution: PLAY A SEASON!

thats the best solution i've been able to come up with

xander 10-25-2004 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
that is how the current lottery works for non-playoff teams but that is NOT what is being suggested in this article...based on this article if tb won the lottery they would jump from #30 to #1.

so the question, which i'm not sure the answer to, is will they use the lottery to determine all 30 spots or is pittsburgh guaranteed at worst the 2nd pick?

thank you, this was my origional question.

Onion Boy 10-25-2004 02:30 PM

This is all pointless anyway because the way I see it there are only two times of the year when a new CBA could be agreed upon: September and December. Either way, doubt they'd hold a draft until the following June by which at least half a season will have been played and they'll be able to rank the teams accurately.

E.g. if they reach a new CBA next September they'll probably have either a superdraft in '06 combining both draft classes, or permanently push back the draft by a year (i.e. moving the draft age minimum to 18 instead of 17).

xander 10-25-2004 02:57 PM

you couldn't have a superdraft becouse you already have picks traded for the 05' draft. If there was a superdraft in 06' what would happen to the ranger's second rounders from philly and toronto in 05? even if they end up having drafts back to back, there has to be a seperation between the two becouse of that.

Melrose_Jr. 10-25-2004 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
there is no equitable way to conduct a draft without a season.

That's right, so I don't see how you can hold a draft, period. You wait until the league has sorted itself out by playing "X" number of games, whenever that may be.

sbj and Xander are on the right track. If there's no draft this June, then draft eligible players will just have to wait until the next draft. A standard draft, not a double or "super draft". Yah, a bunch of guys that would have gone late in a traditional draft will go undrafted. By the same token, a LOT of European player may say, "eff the NHL" depending on how the CBA turns out. Hell, maybe some North American players say the same thing. They may not end up with as many eligible players as they think.

Fish 10-25-2004 04:06 PM

I have of course and alternative plan...eliminate the draft, everyone's a free agent :D

patnyrnyg 10-25-2004 06:53 PM

If they lose the season, I'd rather see them move the draft age back to 19. I know some will argue you cannot prevent someone from making a living. However, no one has a RIGHT to play in the NHL. This IS a private entity and they are entitled to set their own rules. Plus, it gives the players an extra year to develop and gives scouts an extra year to evaluate players.

Edge 10-25-2004 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
That's right, so I don't see how you can hold a draft, period. You wait until the league has sorted itself out by playing "X" number of games, whenever that may be.

sbj and Xander are on the right track. If there's no draft this June, then draft eligible players will just have to wait until the next draft. A standard draft, not a double or "super draft". Yah, a bunch of guys that would have gone late in a traditional draft will go undrafted. By the same token, a LOT of European player may say, "eff the NHL" depending on how the CBA turns out. Hell, maybe some North American players say the same thing. They may not end up with as many eligible players as they think.

I dont think the problem is the players so much as the picks. Deals have already been made involving the 2005 draft and it would be a disaster if we just let all those slide and went only with the 2006 version.

I think that is where the issue is.

NYR469 10-25-2004 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xander
you couldn't have a superdraft becouse you already have picks traded for the 05' draft. If there was a superdraft in 06' what would happen to the ranger's second rounders from philly and toronto in 05? even if they end up having drafts back to back, there has to be a seperation between the two becouse of that.

those picks would be carried over to the 2006 draft...if this happen the # of rounds in the draft would have to be doubled. there is no way that they could do that because that would be the same as eliminating an entire draft year cause 290 players wouldn't get drafted...

they would have to set it up as round 1a, round 1b, round 2a, round 2b, etc with 'a' rounds being 2005 picks and 'b' rounds being 2006 picks so traded picks from those drafts are accounted for...

NYR469 10-25-2004 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patnyrnyg
If they lose the season, I'd rather see them move the draft age back to 19.

lots of people have said that and really if they want to do that, this is the perfect time to do it since you could cancel the 2005 draft and then push each draft class back 1 year

really i can't think of any possible and logical way that they could increase the draft age without skipping a year

and you aren't preventing players from becoming nhl players, just delaying their draft by 1 year. and a guy like crosby could be in the nhl at 18 but 99% of players won't play that first year in the nhl so they really aren't losing anything and after a few years that would be viewed as the normal draft age by everyone.

xander 10-25-2004 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
those picks would be carried over to the 2006 draft...if this happen the # of rounds in the draft would have to be doubled. there is no way that they could do that because that would be the same as eliminating an entire draft year cause 290 players wouldn't get drafted...

they would have to set it up as round 1a, round 1b, round 2a, round 2b, etc with 'a' rounds being 2005 picks and 'b' rounds being 2006 picks so traded picks from those drafts are accounted for...

but why not just hold 2 drafts a month or so apart? wouldn't that make it much easier?

this way 2005 draft picks get used to draft 2005 players and 2006 picks get used on 2006 players. A super draft would unfarily push down 2006 players, since 2005 players would be more developed and more atractive.

Melrose_Jr. 10-25-2004 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I dont think the problem is the players so much as the picks. Deals have already been made involving the 2005 draft and it would be a disaster if we just let all those slide and went only with the 2006 version.

I think that is where the issue is.

I would say, 2005 picks go toward the next draft. 2006 picks go towards the draft after that. Are there any picks beyond that floating around out there?

NYR469, how do you determine the draft order of your double draft? If the "a" draft is done by finishing order of the next season, is the "b" draft done by lottery?

patnyrnyg 10-25-2004 07:46 PM

469, the whole Maurice Clarett thing is challenging the draft ages and the legality of it. The NFL rule is 3 years after your graduating class is out of HS. The argument the Clarett camp is making (and the court agreed at first) is the NFL is denying Clarett the right to earn a living.

Melrose_Jr. 10-25-2004 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patnyrnyg
The argument the Clarett camp is making (and the court agreed at first) is the NFL is denying Clarett the right to earn a living.

I don't know anything about the situation, or football in general, but doesn't a football player have options beyond the NFL? Arena football? Canada? Europe?

I would hope no judge would even here such a ridiculous claim. Technically, you can "earn a living" at a McDonald's drive-thru. As long as you meet their minimum requiments for employment, you're in, much like a professional sports league.

patnyrnyg 10-25-2004 08:08 PM

that is the nfl's argument. I'd have to look it up. For some reason I think one court favored the NFL, then another panel of judges reversed the decision, then another judge gave the NFL an injunction, which lasted beyond the draft date. I could have this mixed up, but it went back and forth for a few weeks.

The league in Europe is sponsored by the NFL, I believe the Arena league is as well. I know the Canadian League has some agreement with the NFL, but not sure if this is part of the agreement.


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