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-   -   Value of: The Flyers as Sellers? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1106569)

Accelleratii 02-14-2012 10:19 AM

The Flyers as Sellers?
 
Perhaps it's time for the Flyers, in their current slump (3-4-3 in last 10 and 1-4-1 in last 6) to consider moving some chips they don't see as part of their future to better equip themselves moving forward. This season obviously isn't a complete wash but does anyone really see this team contending for a Cup come playoff time? I do not.

Hypothetically speaking, who could the Flyers move this February besides to obvious impending UFA Matt Carle...

Schenn Bros Pizza* 02-14-2012 10:21 AM

I'd be fine moving Briere, Jagr(who I really like), Carle, but thats just me.

JVR21 02-14-2012 10:24 AM

I'd like to see Briere moved as Read is essentially the same player with more drive at 15% the cost, but that realistically can't happen. I'm sure the Flyers won't be selling.

SnS 02-14-2012 10:24 AM

Briere won't waive his clause due to family issues that are taking place in his life.

Wouldn't be shocked to see Carle resigned. I wouldn't but it seems Holmgren loves him.

Doubt they'd go ahead and move Jagr.

Prongo 02-14-2012 10:24 AM

Would Chicago be interested in Carle or Mez?

wej20 02-14-2012 10:25 AM

I'm surprise Jagr didn't insist on some sort of NMC/NTC.

duffy9748 02-14-2012 10:27 AM

Players like Timonen,Jagr, and possibly Briere(some teams may not like his contract) would all gauge interest. I don't think it would be a bad idea to sell but its highly unlikely due to the way their front office runs things.

Timonen for one would garner a large return because he'd be by far the best dman available(assuming suter/weber are not) and he has tons of experience and is still playing at a high level.

I doubt Jagr gets dealt because of his impact on the young players and the organization seems to like him a lot.

Briere's no movement clause and his leadership would also be in the way of him being dealt.

I am all for moving Carle and I think Holmgren should consider finishing the rebuild. I just think its unlikely.

RJ8812 02-14-2012 10:36 AM

the only player I want moved is Carle

Kaktus* 02-14-2012 10:37 AM

Returns I'd like to see:

Carle - late 1st round pick or 2nd and NHL ready prospect
Timonen- Kaberle like return. 1st, top prospect and conditional 1st.
Jagr - NHL ready player plus a wnd or 3rd.
Briere - Salary dump, plus prospect and pick.

SnS 02-14-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitroglycerin (Post 44111109)
Returns I'd like to see:

Carle - late 1st round pick or 2nd and NHL ready prospect
Timonen- Kaberle like return. 1st, top prospect and conditional 1st.
Jagr - NHL ready player plus a wnd or 3rd.
Briere - Salary dump, plus prospect and pick.

Carle - Sure someone would pay that.
Timonen - I doubt he'd be asked to waive
Jagr - Not sure if that'll happen, honestly I'm not even sure they'd go the route of dealing him.
Briere - Maybe, I think that's a bit much unless it's like a 5th round pick & not upper echelon prospect. Depending on the dump, I probably wouldn't even want it. As I also don't think he'll waive his clause.

LombardiTool 02-14-2012 10:42 AM

I think fans overthink things too much. Flyers are #4 in the conference right now. They are in a slump, all teams go thru this during the season. I guarantee no one in the Flyers organization think they are sellers. :shakehead

Kaktus* 02-14-2012 10:45 AM

I was just saying if Flyers are sellers and I seriously doubt that we are. But if we are this is the type of return I would be looking to get.

Briere's contract is 7M, 3M and 2M for the next 3 years with 6.5M cap hit. He is at worse .8 PPG average in playoffs.

SnS 02-14-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LombardiTool (Post 44111335)
I think fans overthink things too much. Flyers are #4 in the conference right now. They are in a slump, all teams go thru this during the season. I guarantee no one in the Flyers organization think they are sellers. :shakehead

If you've seen the way our defense has played since the Winter Classic, you'd quite possibly be on the "sell" bandwagon. I don't think they should sell either, I'm just offering insight on what I think people would get if they're actually available.

Coburn has looked so bad, Lilja sucks when playing.

MAB & Gus are rookies.

Carle has "moments" and he has "weak wrists".

Truthfully with this defense I don't see us contending for a cup this season, so I guess people want to kick the tires to see what they can get. I don't know. I just know that a #5-6 defender won't be saving the Flyers this season.

khennig16* 02-14-2012 10:48 AM

Armstrong + Colborne for Briere? Or Armstrong + Frattin + 2nd? Not really sure on what Briere's value would be so take it easy on me. Or if you need defense switch Armstrong with Komisarek?

ChuckyToGally 02-14-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 44110581)
I'm surprise Jagr didn't insist on some sort of NMC/NTC.

It shows again that the only thing he cares about is money...

SnS 02-14-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khennig16 (Post 44111603)
Armstrong + Colborne for Briere? Or Armstrong + Frattin + 2nd? Not really sure on what Briere's value would be so take it easy on me.

Eh. I'd pass on both counts, though Colborne is a nice piece, he doesn't necessarily fill a need.

COMCASTMONEY 02-14-2012 10:50 AM

So now that we only have a 98.8% chance of making the playoffs, it's time to sell?

http://comcast-spectacor.com/corpora...ios/snider.jpg

**** off, never gonna happen.

LombardiTool 02-14-2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re (Post 44111571)
If you've seen the way our defense has played since the Winter Classic, you'd quite possibly be on the "sell" bandwagon. I don't think they should sell either, I'm just offering insight on what I think people would get if they're actually available.

Coburn has looked so bad, Lilja sucks when playing.

MAB & Gus are rookies.

Carle has "moments" and he has "weak wrists".

Truthfully with this defense I don't see us contending for a cup this season, so I guess people want to kick the tires to see what they can get. I don't know. I just know that a #5-6 defender won't be saving the Flyers this season.

This sounds to me like you should be buyers not sellers. All teams have holes right now. Get some d-man help and fine tune for the playoffs. Dont sell.

Once you are in the dance, you never know what can happen.

Jack de la Hoya 02-14-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LombardiTool (Post 44111335)
I think fans overthink things too much. Flyers are #4 in the conference right now. They are in a slump, all teams go thru this during the season. I guarantee no one in the Flyers organization think they are sellers. :shakehead

Sort of.

I agree that the Flyers don't see themselves as seller; they've arguably been that once in two decades, and it was in the midst of one of their worst seasons on record, 2006-2007.

On the other hand, this team is not as good as its current standing; it lacks any apparent defensive system, and the goaltending has not been good enough to make up for it (note--it isn't the other way around; Bryzgalov's play is, at least in part, a symptom of the problem rather than a cause).

Briere is the single worst defensive player in the league, so giving him an "A" and holding up his leadership is probably a mistake. Maybe he rebounds and show's up in the playoffs--apparently it's fine to play 2 months of the year. I'd easily move him; I think the Flyers would probably move him if they could--if for no other reason than to free up cap space for offseason additions. But I don't expect he will be moved.

Timonen can't and shouldn't be traded--because with a few tweaks, this could be a very strong club next season.

Carle. Meh. He's not awful, but he's not good. He does some things reasonably well (move the puck), but he's not dynamic enough to be an offensive defenseman or sound enough defensively to anchor a top-4 pairing. Mostly, though, he's going to get paid in the offseason--overpaid--and it seems unlikely that the Flyers would be retain him and pursue a major FA (Suter). I'd move him in a package if it brought back a top-pairing defenseman, but I don't expect that to happen. I think he stays the season and walks in July.

As for this year, I expect them to play a highly competitive first round series, hopefully advance, and then get destroyed by either NYR or Boston in the second round. In other words, they are too good to be sellers, but not good enough, IMO, to be serious buyers. If they want to throw a 2nd away for a rental defenseman and hope that they catch fire in April / May, I won't fault them, but they shouldn't be moving major assets for shot-term upgrades.

JABEE 02-14-2012 10:56 AM

Not going to happen. I expect a big move.

Kaktus* 02-14-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JABEE (Post 44112019)
Not going to happen. I expect a big move.

O god help me. Unless we are ripping off Columbus again, please no big moves.

Horseradish 02-14-2012 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accelleratii (Post 44110249)
Perhaps it's time for the Flyers, in their current slump (3-4-3 in last 10 and 1-4-1 in last 6) to consider moving some chips they don't see as part of their future to better equip themselves moving forward. This season obviously isn't a complete wash but does anyone really see this team contending for a Cup come playoff time? I do not.

Hypothetically speaking, who could the Flyers move this February besides to obvious impending UFA Matt Carle...

Honestly, that's what I'd do if I were the Flyers. I'd trade off assets like Carle and Briere who aren't likely to be re-signed, and try to get firsts or high end prospects for them. Or useful young players who maybe aren't quite at their level.

Philly's a very young team this year, and that, combined with Pronger's absence (and possibly JVR, Betts, and definitely Lappy), and this is most likely not their year anyway. So get some useful players/picks/prospects out of guys you aren't gonna re-sign, give some playoff time to some younger players who otherwise wouldn't be playing, and go hard for the cup next year.

Tripod 02-14-2012 11:11 AM

Trade Carle + 3rd for Ryan Ellis.
Trade a 2nd+ Wellwood for Grossman. Sign him for 3 mill per for 5 years
Trade 2nd for Gill. Sign for 1 year 2 mill

Timonen Coburn
Grossman Mez
Ellis Gill
Bourdon

Then go for Suter in off season. And if you get him, Gill becomes #6/7 And we all know injuries happen anyways!

HighOFFHockey 02-14-2012 11:33 AM

what is wrong with you people? Why would we dump any of those players? We're not sellers. We either don't make a move or we make a move for a better team. This is in no way the flyers style. Great teams don't dump players because they're not favorites to win the cup. Come playoff time all bets are off. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive and should look at the past as an example that we don't know who will do well in the playoffs.

HighOFFHockey 02-14-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 44111929)
Sort of.

I agree that the Flyers don't see themselves as seller; they've arguably been that once in two decades, and it was in the midst of one of their worst seasons on record, 2006-2007.

On the other hand, this team is not as good as its current standing; it lacks any apparent defensive system, and the goaltending has not been good enough to make up for it (note--it isn't the other way around; Bryzgalov's play is, at least in part, a symptom of the problem rather than a cause).

Briere is the single worst defensive player in the league, so giving him an "A" and holding up his leadership is probably a mistake. Maybe he rebounds and show's up in the playoffs--apparently it's fine to play 2 months of the year. I'd easily move him; I think the Flyers would probably move him if they could--if for no other reason than to free up cap space for offseason additions. But I don't expect he will be moved.

Timonen can't and shouldn't be traded--because with a few tweaks, this could be a very strong club next season.

Carle. Meh. He's not awful, but he's not good. He does some things reasonably well (move the puck), but he's not dynamic enough to be an offensive defenseman or sound enough defensively to anchor a top-4 pairing. Mostly, though, he's going to get paid in the offseason--overpaid--and it seems unlikely that the Flyers would be retain him and pursue a major FA (Suter). I'd move him in a package if it brought back a top-pairing defenseman, but I don't expect that to happen. I think he stays the season and walks in July.

As for this year, I expect them to play a highly competitive first round series, hopefully advance, and then get destroyed by either NYR or Boston in the second round. In other words, they are too good to be sellers, but not good enough, IMO, to be serious buyers. If they want to throw a 2nd away for a rental defenseman and hope that they catch fire in April / May, I won't fault them, but they shouldn't be moving major assets for shot-term upgrades.

This whole statement is irrelevant because when this team gets out of its slump everyone's opinion will change. This team needs more depth at D. 2 rookies in our top 6 is not a good sign.


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