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-   -   Weber vs Suter (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1107967)

ponder 02-15-2012 06:23 PM

Weber vs Suter
 
Outside fan here, curious to see who Preds fans think better in a bunch of different facets of the game. Basically, for each category, say whether you think Weber or Suter is better. If they're basically equal, go ahead and call it a wash.

Here are the categories, and I gave my general feeling for each one, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don't see these guys nearly as much as Preds fans:

- Skating (forwards): Suter
- Skating (backwards): Suter
- Slap shot: Weber
- Wrist shot: Weber
- Passing: Suter
- Physicality: Weber
- Defensive positioning: Suter
- 1 on 1 defense: Suter
- Work along the boards: Weber
- Puck moving/neutral zone/breakout ability: Suter
- Offensive hockey IQ: Suter
- Overall offensive game: Weber (slight edge)
- Overall defensive game: Suter (slight edge)
- Overall game, period: Weber (slight edge)

Paranoid Android 02-15-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 44204851)
Outside fan here, curious to see who Preds fans think better in a bunch of different facets of the game. Basically, for each category, say whether you think Weber or Suter is better. If they're basically equal, go ahead and call it a wash.

Here are the categories, and I gave my general feeling for each one, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don't see these guys nearly as much as Preds fans:

- Skating (forwards): Suter
- Skating (backwards): Suter
- Slap shot: Weber
- Wrist shot: Weber
- Passing: Suter
- Physicality: Weber
- Defensive positioning: Suter
- 1 on 1 defense: Suter
- Work along the boards: Weber
- Puck moving/neutral zone/breakout ability: Suter
- Offensive hockey IQ: Suter
- Overall offensive game: Weber (slight edge)
- Overall defensive game: Suter (slight edge)
- Overall game, period: Weber (slight edge)

Change offensive hockey IQ to Weber and that's exactly how I would have it. Before this season, I would have said Weber is the clear winner in overall offensive game, but Suter has really stepped up this year offensively, so I agree that it's only slight edge to Weber.

TMI 02-15-2012 07:07 PM

I tend to think their wrist shots are pretty even. The same could probably be said about one-on-one defense. Otherwise, that's pretty much spot on IMO

preds1 02-15-2012 07:20 PM

I agree with the above, change the offensive IQ to Weber. The rest is pretty accurate though (imo) which is why they make a great D-pairing.

roseyc 02-15-2012 08:32 PM

Thing about it is that neither will stay unless the other ones does.

Paranoid Android 02-15-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseyc (Post 44217203)
Thing about it is that neither will stay unless the other ones does.

I don't believe this to be the truth. I think there is just as much chance of only one leaving as both leaving.

Besides, its unlikely that one team is going to be able to sign them both, so they won't be playing together regardless.

FlexinMyPeks 02-15-2012 09:49 PM

I agree with others here in saying change the offensive IQ to Weber. I also think that defensive positioning is a wash. I like them both equally, though.

braindead 02-15-2012 09:58 PM

Well, offensive IQ is a trick question. Suter, clearly to me, has it in getting the puck out of the zone, through neutral ice and into the attack zone. He is hugely better-- watch Weber give him the puck every single freakin' time. And that is "offensive IQ" in my mind. He then can set guys up better than Weber. Weber however is far better at knowing when and where and how to jump into the play, how to get open and how to place shots. That, too, is "offensive IQ". Maybe it deserves two categories to be fair.

I've never seen a better "pairing" than these two ever. On any team. In the last 15 years at least.

Unless Suter goes to hang with Chara or Weber goes to hang with Lidstrom, we won't see a better pair if one of them leaves. Ryan Ellis may someday prove to be an excellent compliment to Weber here... nobody here can pair with Suter to match Weber if Weber leaves.

Drake744 02-15-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseyc (Post 44217203)
Thing about it is that neither will stay unless the other ones does.

I don't believe this either. Fact of the matter is this truly IS Weber's team. Wearing the C is no small honor and is something I guarantee he takes seriously and appreciates. He's going to give us a fair shot and he knows he's got another year to watch how we progress. If Suter leaves and we use his would-be salary on other things, then get even more from the ownership, and move on just fine and are sitting at this same record one year from today, Weber won't care one bit that Suter left.

pekkaslap 02-15-2012 10:10 PM

Will be a shame to see these 2 guys no longer as a D pairing.

NoNecksCurse 02-15-2012 10:46 PM

- Skating (forwards): Suter
- Skating (backwards): Suter
- Slap shot: Weber
- Wrist shot: Weber
- Passing: Suter
- Physicality: Weber
- Defensive positioning: Suter
- 1 on 1 defense: Suter
- Work along the boards: suter
- Puck moving/neutral zone/breakout ability: Suter
- Offensive hockey IQ: weber/suter
- Overall offensive game: Weber (slight edge)
- Overall defensive game: Suter (no slight edge)
- Overall game, period: suter (slight edge)

a little revision.. these are my opinions

CantbeatzPekka 02-16-2012 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekkaslap (Post 44227751)
Will be a shame to see these 2 guys no longer as a D pairing.

exactly how i feel. Hope they stay together, on nashville. theyre both so incredibly talented

Milltec 02-16-2012 09:21 AM

Blue Jackets fan coming in peace, so what are you guys thinking the plan is for Weber? Is David Poile lining up the dominoes just right to get Weber resigned... or does he have a secret exit strategy?

VFL615* 02-16-2012 09:31 AM

My favorite choice would be to keep Weber and Suter. If i had to choose one it would be Weber. He is the biggest face of the franchise and this team does not need to lose his size on the blue line.

roseyc 02-16-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantBeatMyPekka (Post 44237375)
exactly how i feel. Hope they stay together, on nashville. theyre both so incredibly talented

That is the our advantage because no team will be able to sign both and the only way they will be able to play together is here

triggrman 02-16-2012 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VFL615 (Post 44246193)
My favorite choice would be to keep Weber and Suter. If i had to choose one it would be Weber. He is the biggest face of the franchise and this team does not need to lose his size on the blue line.

Agreed. There are replacements for Suter (Josi) in our system, now they might not be as good as Suter but they bring the same tool bag. There's only 2 or 3 Weber type players in the NHL period and none in our system.

Players with Weber's size, speed and attitude are hard to find and to find them in a player with his offensive game is even more rare.

roseyc 02-16-2012 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman (Post 44249209)
Agreed. There are replacements for Suter (Josi) in our system, now they might not be as good as Suter but they bring the same tool bag. There's only 2 or 3 Weber type players in the NHL period and none in our system.

Players with Weber's size, speed and attitude are hard to find and to find them in a player with his offensive game is even more rare.

Weber is in that elite profile like Larry Robinson and Scott Stevens they don't come around that often

Drake744 02-16-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milltec (Post 44245865)
Blue Jackets fan coming in peace, so what are you guys thinking the plan is for Weber? Is David Poile lining up the dominoes just right to get Weber resigned... or does he have a secret exit strategy?

We don't have a plan for Weber right now as far as any of us are really discussing. Suter has us by the short ones right now playing the "Oh I love Nashville but won't re-sign yet because I don't know if you're committed" game so we are worried about him first and foremost. Weber is restricted so he's really all-but-coming back anyways for at least a year. We feel like if Suter wants to be a wad about things and leave then we still have a lot of money to work with by building a team around Weber so he'll hopefully stay our captain long-term.

roseyc 02-16-2012 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake744 (Post 44255425)
We don't have a plan for Weber right now as far as any of us are really discussing. Suter has us by the short ones right now playing the "Oh I love Nashville but won't re-sign yet because I don't know if you're committed" game so we are worried about him first and foremost. Weber is restricted so he's really all-but-coming back anyways for at least a year. We feel like if Suter wants to be a wad about things and leave then we still have a lot of money to work with by building a team around Weber so he'll hopefully stay our captain long-term.

No Weber is restricted but he can opt unlike last year the team could have opted out but he can this year

Drake744 02-16-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseyc (Post 44256477)
No Weber is restricted but he can opt unlike last year the team could have opted out but he can this year

Well yeah but IMO he's more likely to stay at leasr a year for various reasons, and also even if he does leave we will still get tons of compensation I believe via the RFA rules. Unless there's a loophole to this current deal he's on which I haven't heard anything about.......but correct me if I'm wrong.

roseyc 02-16-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake744 (Post 44256807)
Well yeah but IMO he's more likely to stay at leasr a year for various reasons, and also even if he does leave we will still get tons of compensation I believe via the RFA rules. Unless there's a loophole to this current deal he's on which I haven't heard anything about.......but correct me if I'm wrong.

If he just wants to leave the same process will go like last year then they go to arbitration and then the ruling. If Weber accepts it then he stay with the Preds ...this what I remembered and I might be not totally correct but it's different this year I remembered reading that. I was talking with someone and I would like someone to verify but he was thinking you can't go to arbitration twice.

Drake744 02-16-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseyc (Post 44258221)
If he just wants to leave the same process will go like last year then they go to arbitration and then the ruling. If Weber accepts it then he stay with the Preds ...this what I remembered and I might be not totally correct but it's different this year I remembered reading that. I was talking with someone and I would like someone to verify but he was thinking you can't go to arbitration twice.

But would we still get a lot of compensation from whoever signs him away from us because he's restricted?

Paranoid Android 02-16-2012 02:44 PM

We can't take Weber to arbitration, but Weber can take us to arbitration. However, this is highly unlikely to happen. If Weber only wants a 1 year deal, then he will just sign his qualifying offer and be done with it. If he files for arbitration, he will only block himself from offer sheets, and the reward would likely be the exact same as a QO. I don't see arbitration happening for him this summer.

IMO, I do not believe Weber wants to sign another short term contract, especially with his recent concussion scare and the looming end of the CBA. He will either sign long term with us, sign a long term offer sheet with someone else, or be traded (and sign long term with them).

Preds311 02-16-2012 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake744 (Post 44261373)
But would we still get a lot of compensation from whoever signs him away from us because he's restricted?

Yes, it would be like 3 or 4 years worth of 1st round picks from the team that puts an offer sheet in and that he accepts.

TMI 02-16-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preds311 (Post 44264905)
Yes, it would be like 3 or 4 years worth of 1st round picks from the team that puts an offer sheet in and that he accepts.

An offer sheet most likely would be a good thing if Weber chooses to accept it. I don't know that any contending team can afford to throw much more than $8m at him (if that). I have a feeling front loaded deals will be addressed in the new CBA, so if that happens it means no one will be able to circumvent the cap to make room. If someone throws a deal worth $8m per year at Weber and he accepts it I would imagine Poile will match.

But yeah, if someone does go crazy then the offer sheet will likely cost them four 1sts. Webs already makes $7.5m (one way the arbiter actually helped us)


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