HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Speculation: Why Bryzgalov Can Be Traded (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1111491)

RetiredFlyer 02-19-2012 09:08 AM

Why Bryzgalov Can Be Traded
 
1. He would waive his NMC: Letís be honest here, the guy is clearly not enjoying his time here in Philadelphia. He looks clinically depressed when speaking to the media, the fans are giving it to him, his teammates donít really appear to like him all that much and Timonen has taken open shots at him. Why wouldnít he want to be traded? Itís not like this team looks like a cup contender at the moment, his money is guaranteed no matter where he plays, he appears on the verge of a mental break at the hands of playing in this city, so why would he ever reject a trade?

2. He is still an above average goalie in this league:
I look at some of our fans serving up JVR + Bob + Coburn + more in proposals for Rick Nash and then in the next breath saying Bryz has negative value and I find myself confused. Rick Nash is a man who has underperformed for the better part of 3 years. He has given up before. He looks disinterested. He is a terrible leader. He is having an abysmal year this year (on pace for 55 pts). Yet for some reason, he still has value. And not just value, but a ďhumongous bigĒ amount of value.

Then you look at Bryzgalov. For 3 out of his four years in Phoenix, he was excellent. In a small market with minimal pressure, he was flat out dominant. He was a Vezina contender year in and year out and he carried them to the playoffs twice. Unlike Nash, there was no ďwell, if Bryz had teammates heíd be greatĒ. No, Bryz succeeded without good teammates. He was elite. Period. No questions asked. No ifs ands or buts.

You wonít get an argument from me if you say that Bryzgalov has been terrible here. I agree. You also wonít get an argument from me if you feel like Bryzgalov isnít likely to improve here. On the contrary, I think it could get worse down the line. Bryz just doesnít have the makeup to play goalie in this market (my opinion). But in a smaller market, he could return to form. In fact, I think itís likely that if traded to a low-pressure environment, he returns to form.

If teams are willing to take a chance that Rick Nash returns to form (actually most teams appear to be banking on him being even better than he was on average in C-Bus) in the correct environment, why wouldnít some of those same teams be willing to take a chance on Ilya Bryzgalov?

If Ilya Bryzgalov returns to the .920 save percentage pace he had in Phoenix wherever he goes then all of the sudden his cap hit is back to being perfectly appropriate. If Rick Nash returns to his average 65-70 point performance, he is still overpaid. Just remember that.

I know itís cathartic to rag on your own players after losses and to bash guys who have been brutal this year (as Bryz has been), even Iíve been guilty of this, but itís also important to take a step back from time to time and realize that itís never as bad as you think it is.

This is not some Gomez situation or DiPietro situation. This is a case of a goalie being incapable of handling the pressure in Philadelphia (and itís not the first time); the skills are still there. That very fact should give you hope for the future. Perhaps Bryzgalov adapts to the environment, gets comfortable, and becomes the goalie they we want. Or perhaps Bryzgalov gets traded tomorrow in a package for Rick Nash. The point is, Bryzgalov is certainly a tradeable commodity and I have no doubt that actual NHL GMs of small-market teams like Columbus would agree and would like to pick him up.

flyersfan187 02-19-2012 09:12 AM

I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.

JXC 02-19-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan187 (Post 44423613)
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.

I think that's a big part of it - he thought he was coming to a contender with solid players and a solid system.

Hockeypete49 02-19-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer (Post 44423517)
1. He would waive his NMC: Let’s be honest here, the guy is clearly not enjoying his time here in Philadelphia. He looks clinically depressed when speaking to the media, the fans are giving it to him, his teammates don’t really appear to like him all that much and Timonen has taken open shots at him. Why wouldn’t he want to be traded? It’s not like this team looks like a cup contender at the moment, his money is guaranteed no matter where he plays, he appears on the verge of a mental break at the hands of playing in this city, so why would he ever reject a trade?

2. He is still an above average goalie in this league:
I look at some of our fans serving up JVR + Bob + Coburn + more in proposals for Rick Nash and then in the next breath saying Bryz has negative value and I find myself confused. Rick Nash is a man who has underperformed for the better part of 3 years. He has given up before. He looks disinterested. He is a terrible leader. He is having an abysmal year this year (on pace for 55 pts). Yet for some reason, he still has value. And not just value, but a “humongous big” amount of value.

Then you look at Bryzgalov. For 3 out of his four years in Phoenix, he was excellent. In a small market with minimal pressure, he was flat out dominant. He was a Vezina contender year in and year out and he carried them to the playoffs twice. Unlike Nash, there was no “well, if Bryz had teammates he’d be great”. No, Bryz succeeded without good teammates. He was elite. Period. No questions asked. No ifs ands or buts.

You won’t get an argument from me if you say that Bryzgalov has been terrible here. I agree. You also won’t get an argument from me if you feel like Bryzgalov isn’t likely to improve here. On the contrary, I think it could get worse down the line. Bryz just doesn’t have the makeup to play goalie in this market (my opinion). But in a smaller market, he could return to form. In fact, I think it’s likely that if traded to a low-pressure environment, he returns to form.

If teams are willing to take a chance that Rick Nash returns to form (actually most teams appear to be banking on him being even better than he was on average in C-Bus) in the correct environment, why wouldn’t some of those same teams be willing to take a chance on Ilya Bryzgalov?

If Ilya Bryzgalov returns to the .920 save percentage pace he had in Phoenix wherever he goes then all of the sudden his cap hit is back to being perfectly appropriate. If Rick Nash returns to his average 65-70 point performance, he is still overpaid. Just remember that.

I know it’s cathartic to rag on your own players after losses and to bash guys who have been brutal this year (as Bryz has been), even I’ve been guilty of this, but it’s also important to take a step back from time to time and realize that it’s never as bad as you think it is.

This is not some Gomez situation or DiPietro situation. This is a case of a goalie being incapable of handling the pressure in Philadelphia (and it’s not the first time); the skills are still there. That very fact should give you hope for the future. Perhaps Bryzgalov adapts to the environment, gets comfortable, and becomes the goalie they we want. Or perhaps Bryzgalov gets traded tomorrow in a package for Rick Nash. The point is, Bryzgalov is certainly a tradeable commodity and I have no doubt that actual NHL GMs of small-market teams like Columbus would agree and would like to pick him up.

I would be suprized if anyone would pick him up. Plus remember he still would have to waive his NTC. I just think we are going to have to suck it up and hope he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. This team does not need a Rick Nash. It needed defensive stability. Which with the two moves Homer just completed take care of that. CBJ is going to have to move him and there are only so many teams that can handle that contract so I think that the jackets are going to have to accept far less value than they thought they were going to get for him. Way to much money for a player who cannot carry a team on his back. For that money I would exspect a lot more from him. No bang for your buck there.

Swiper the Fox 02-19-2012 09:24 AM

Perhaps we can wait it out and see how he plays with some better defensemen in front of him , that have recently been acquired

Hockeypete49 02-19-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan187 (Post 44423613)
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.

Clearly the Flyers brass understands the investment they have in Bryz. The moves they just made should help both goalies and help settle Kimmo down along with Carle and Mez. It is kind of good they are going on a road trip to get away from the stinking Philly media. The chick on Comcast is a real *****. She and timmyp just love to stir crap up. This is another area where Chris would have put them on their place.

MsWoof 02-19-2012 09:30 AM

Honestly, who would want him? We heard the stories about him coming out of Phoenix after the fact, we saw his strange behaviour on 24/7 and we've seen his terrible play. The only hope is amnesty but does Snider want to see his pride take the hit? I know he's majorly rich but the amount of money he'd have to pay is absurd.

The only other option is retirement. He's making, what, $10 million this season? I would be surprised if he chose that option but not horribly.

Wait...is he making $10 million or $15 this year?

http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1141

Is the $5 million signing bonus included in the $10 million? I just added up all the money through 2020 and it comes to $51 million excluding the signing bonus.

MRxBLACK 02-19-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 (Post 44423847)
I would be suprized if anyone would pick him up. Plus remember he still would have to waive his NTC. I just think we are going to have to suck it up and hope he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. This team does not need a Rick Nash. It needed defensive stability. Which with the two moves Homer just completed take care of that. CBJ is going to have to move him and there are only so many teams that can handle that contract so I think that the jackets are going to have to accept far less value than they thought they were going to get for him. Way to much money for a player who cannot carry a team on his back. For that money I would exspect a lot more from him. No bang for your buck there.

If you have a ntc, are guaranteed the money, and not wanted, why wouldn't you want to get out?

Tim Tebow 02-19-2012 10:52 AM

As stated in the title this is pure speculation, if even 1 thing he said is untrue it can completely change the situation. Plus one can also make the argument that common logic does not apply to Bryzgalov. He has always been an oddball who has reacted in unique ways to certain situations his entire career.

The teammate thing is always inaccurate. His teammates have also numerously defended him in the media and in situations were the media was not watching with local fans at games. In addition it does not matter what team you play for, if you make mistakes you will always feel heat from your teammates. This is one thing that does not change from professional sports to high school teams. In other words even if we shipped him to Columbus if he still struggles it's not like his teammates would be like, "Don't worry about it Bryz! We all suck here! We won't judge!" Athletes are athletes whether they are 30 or 16. Playing in Columbus won't make his situation anymore comfortable. Especially considering Columbus is #28 in offense and #29 in defense with the star players still on it.
Not to mention hockey players have lives outside of the team.

IMO Bryz only waives his NMC to go to a team that has a pretty decent looking situation and I don't know if any of those teams would take him with that contract. Bryz's situation isn't so bad that the grass is greener on every other side.

Lucky Luke 02-19-2012 11:04 AM

He needs to quit trying to be an eclectic idiot and just stop the ****ing pucks.

GKJ 02-19-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JXC (Post 44423735)
I think that's a big part of it - he thought he was coming to a contender with solid players and a solid system.

It would be a better system if he could make routine saves.


He also came here because the Flyers were willing to give him an absurd contract. He didn't want to paid as a top goalie, he wanted to be paid as a top player.

He wanted to be paid like a goalie who would survive under your so-called not-solid Cup-Winning system.


As for trading him to Columbus, it's not going to happen. Not only do they not want someone as bad as Steve Mason, but they also don't want this kind of contract on their hands. They're among other reasons they want to trade Rick Nash and Jeff Carter.

ONTHEFLYGUY 02-19-2012 11:31 AM

get over it, no one wants him! hes our problem and will be for a long time

BringBackStevens 02-19-2012 11:42 AM

His time in Phoenix is way overstated. Mike smith is tearing it up down there too.

Tippet's system made bryz look like something he wasn't. There is also zero pressure in Phoenix.

What you see now I closer to what he "actually" is. He's not a top goalie.

GKJ 02-19-2012 11:45 AM

Your best hope is for there be an NHL Lockout long enough to change enough rules where teams get amnesty clauses like there were in the NBA.

R3M1N1SC3 02-19-2012 11:47 AM

They need to figure out something with this goalie situation!

One thing is clear, we cannot beat NYR or BOS in a 7 game series. It's becoming more and more clear that the Stanley Cup will go through one of these teams.

With the addition of Kubina and Grossman our defense should become more solid. Kubina has a rocket from the point which should help on the PP and maybe even scare away some of these teams from blocking shots. Also, it won't hurt to have a couple of these big bodies on the blue line come playoff time.

A lot of people seem to be saying "Don't worry about Bryz, he will come around..." etc etc. Well, when is he finally going to show up? We're on the verge of plummeting in the standings. The guy has let in so many soft goals this year. You can tell his confidence is all but shattered.

We haven't put together back-to-back wins in over a month. When will enough be enough? Does anybody think Holmgren is gonna roll this team into the playoffs knowing we probably won't get past the second round? Maybe even the first round.

I think a major shakeup is on the way

BringBackStevens 02-19-2012 11:50 AM

Its unfortunate that bryz's inability to live up to expectations is going to lead to the inevitable destruction of what looks like a great young core

Holmgren dug his own grave though. Even if bryz was posting a .920 that contract would still be abysmal.

I wish he had the slather ability to get rid of these awful contracts without gutting the team but I don't see it

CS 02-19-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan187 (Post 44423613)
I remember how much people were wanting him this off season. A good system can make a goalie and a bad one can break a goalie. He is a goalie that needs to be confident to be great, and clearly he isn't confident playing behind a team that lets up that many good chances against him.

We have a team that's among the contenders in the league in terms of not giving up many good opportunities.

People sniping from outside the dots and not even hitting top shelf when there is no screen does NOT qualify as a "scoring chance."


I'm starting to get bored with the people blaming the defense and the system like this defense and system never worked before. Bryzgalov is as bad as Leighton and without Pronger, Richards, and Carter to cushion him, Leighton/Bryzgalov becomes a sieve.

R3M1N1SC3 02-19-2012 11:59 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....

mirimon 02-19-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R3M1N1SC3 (Post 44431637)
Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....

He has a NMC, so he would have to agree to being waived (and sent down afterwards if he clears).

Tim Tebow 02-19-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R3M1N1SC3 (Post 44431637)
Correct me if I'm wrong but worst case scenario....

Let's say everything just implodes. Bryz straight up loses his job. Starts bashing the team in the media, etc etc.

Can we not just send him to the AHL? Essentially putting him on waivers. Assuming no team would pick him up, it would force him to either play, retire, or go to the KHL, and his contract wouldn't count against the cap....

Bryz has a no movement clause which is more powerful then a no trade clause because the Flyers cannot move him anywhere without him having the power to deny the move. Basically if Bryz wants to stay on the Flyers roster they can't move him, I believe all they can do is bench him or buy him out which wouldn't help much.

EDIT:

I should add I am not an expert on NHL contract rules but if Bryz went nuts like that if it's anything like the NFL it is possible the Flyers may be able to give him the TO treatment. Many may remember when TO went nuts they sent him home and said his behavior was detrimental to the team and they won the case and TO had to return a lot of money to the Eagles. But I am not sure if the NHL has something like that.

R3M1N1SC3 02-19-2012 12:09 PM

ugh...... :(

MountainHawk 02-19-2012 12:30 PM

Can they even buy him out? He can't be waived, which is required to be bought out.

PJStock* 02-19-2012 12:30 PM

I wonder, if Homer was to bring in Nabakov, how Bryzgalov would react?

GKJ 02-19-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainHawk (Post 44434119)
Can they even buy him out? He can't be waived, which is required to be bought out.

Buy outs are not affected by NMC's.

MountainHawk 02-19-2012 12:40 PM

If you bought out Bryzgalov after the season, you would have a cap hit penalty until 2028, including two years where it would be a $5M+ penalty because of the salary drop off.

Ilya Bryzgalov buyout from CapGeek.com
2012-13: $875,000
2013-14: -$625,000
2014-15: $1,375,000
2015-16: $1,375,000
2016-17: $1,875,000
2017-18: $1,875,000
2018-19: $5,125,000
2019-20: $6,125,000
2020-21: $1,708,333
2021-22: $1,708,333
2022-23: $1,708,333
2023-24: $1,708,333
2024-25: $1,708,333
2025-26: $1,708,333
2026-27: $1,708,333
2027-28: $1,708,333


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.