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-   -   Do these trades signal a huge offseason for the Flyers? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1111939)

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 05:48 PM

Do these trades signal a huge offseason for the Flyers?
 
Ok so hear me out.

Grossman, Kubina, and Carle are all free agents after this year. I honestly think Snider and Holmgren could be looking at it this way:

Obviously this team is not winning the cup with the way the goaltending is right now...let's try and pick up a couple decent veteran defensemen and hope that the goaltending picks up. If it does, great, maybe we can make a deep run. If it doesn't then guys like Carle, Grossman, and Kubina all come off the books and Pronger (for all intensive purposes) heads to LTIR. Assuming the cap goes up a couple million, the Flyers would potentially have around $15 million in cap space with 3 locked in defensemen. Obviously some people are due for a raise, but am I nuts for looking at (or hoping) that this is what management is thinking?

Grab a couple of veteran guys, hope the goaltending picks up, and make a run. If we do then great we might have a shot at the cup. If not, we'll have an assload of money to spend on some big name defensemen in the offseason. Could be more hope then not :sarcasm: but what do you guys think

GKJ 02-19-2012 05:52 PM

We'd probably have to wait for a new CBA before anything huge happens.

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 05:54 PM

I know, this was more of a hindsight kind of post.

Tim Tebow 02-19-2012 05:57 PM

When don't the Flyers have a big offseason? lol

Gert B Frobe 02-19-2012 06:00 PM

I firmly believe that the Flyers will sign Weber as a free agent. They will let two or three of Carle/Kubina/Grossman walk and sign him long term and tweak here and there with the forwards.

I think this is a good plan too. Also - if they flame out, play like crap and lose in the first round - this may all take place under a new coach - which I think is a bad idea.

Tim Tebow 02-19-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe (Post 44456647)
I firmly believe that the Flyers will sign Weber as a free agent. They will let two or three of Carle/Kubina/Grossman walk and sign him long term and tweak here and there with the forwards.

I think this is a good plan too. Also - if they flame out, play like crap and lose in the first round - this may all take place under a new coach - which I think is a bad idea.

You mean Suter? Weber will be a RFA.

dingbathero 02-19-2012 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe (Post 44456647)
I firmly believe that the Flyers will sign Weber as a free agent. They will let two or three of Carle/Kubina/Grossman walk and sign him long term and tweak here and there with the forwards.

I think this is a good plan too. Also - if they flame out, play like crap and lose in the first round - this may all take place under a new coach - which I think is a bad idea.

If I'm Homer I

re-sign Grossman
Let Crle and Kubina walk
Call up MAB
Sign Suter
LTIR Pronger - he is done

Go For It 02-19-2012 06:04 PM

We don't have the picks to sign Weber.

FlyersFan61290 02-19-2012 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingbathero (Post 44456955)
If I'm Homer I

re-sign Grossman
Let Crle and Kubina walk
Call up MAB
Sign Suter
LTIR Pronger - he is done

This except I would plug in Gus instead of MAB.

sobrien 02-19-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingbathero (Post 44456955)
If I'm Homer I

re-sign Grossman
Let Crle and Kubina walk
Call up MAB
Sign Suter
LTIR Pronger - he is done

Agree with this completely.

orange is better 02-19-2012 06:21 PM

I can see them making a trade at the draft for suters rights.

Here's an even more interesting question. Do we use our first round pick on a goaltender or a defenseman?

dingbathero 02-19-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange is better (Post 44458209)
I can see them making a trade at the draft for suters rights.

Here's an even more interesting question. Do we use our first round pick on a goaltender or a defenseman?

D as Bryz isn't going anywhere..... See my above post -that I think NEEDS to be done, and will be done, if Homer - BIG IF - does the RIGHT thing

Tim Tebow 02-19-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange is better (Post 44458209)
Here's an even more interesting question. Do we use our first round pick on a goaltender or a defenseman?

Trade it. It's the Flyer way.

DUHockey9 02-19-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer Rob (Post 44455715)
Ok so hear me out.

Grossman, Kubina, and Carle are all free agents after this year. I honestly think Snider and Holmgren could be looking at it this way:

Obviously this team is not winning the cup with the way the goaltending is right now...let's try and pick up a couple decent veteran defensemen and hope that the goaltending picks up. If it does, great, maybe we can make a deep run. If it doesn't then guys like Carle, Grossman, and Kubina all come off the books and Pronger (for all intensive purposes) heads to LTIR. Assuming the cap goes up a couple million, the Flyers would potentially have around $15 million in cap space with 3 locked in defensemen. Obviously some people are due for a raise, but am I nuts for looking at (or hoping) that this is what management is thinking?

Grab a couple of veteran guys, hope the goaltending picks up, and make a run. If we do then great we might have a shot at the cup. If not, we'll have an assload of money to spend on some big name defensemen in the offseason. Could be more hope then not :sarcasm: but what do you guys think

I'm not following your rationale. You seem to be implying that acquiring Grossman and Kubina are going to give us cap space come the off-season. This isn't the NBA where acquiring expiring contracts are valuable. The Flyers would have the same cap space if they simply didn't acquire those players.

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 06:30 PM

That's 3 less contracts the team has to worry about...and being the team is constantly at or close to the 50 limit, this helps a lot.

Damaged Goods 02-19-2012 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUHockey9 (Post 44458557)
I'm not following your rationale. You seem to be implying that acquiring Grossman and Kubina are going to give us cap space come the off-season. This isn't the NBA where acquiring expiring contracts are valuable. The Flyers would have the same cap space if they simply didn't acquire those players.

Expiring contracts in the NBA are only valuable because trades require roughly matching contracts to be completed, not because of differences in how the NBA salary cap works (although there are many).

I think if you interpret his point a bit more charitably, it does make some sense. The Flyers could have acquired players who were not impending UFAs, positioning themselves for a more constrained off-season approach. But they did not.

DUHockey9 02-19-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer Rob (Post 44458917)
That's 3 less contracts the team has to worry about...and being the team is constantly at or close to the 50 limit, this helps a lot.

But it would be the same if we just rolled with Gus and MAB. Kalinski is an expiring contract too.

If we somehow knew the Flyers chose these 2 guys over 2 other d-men who were locked up for multiple years, then maybe there's something to it. But those players probably would have been more expensive to acquire anyway.

mirimon 02-19-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer Rob (Post 44458917)
That's 3 less contracts the team has to worry about...and being the team is constantly at or close to the 50 limit, this helps a lot.

Wait... we didn't ship out any contracts we were forced to carry next year in acquiring Grossman and Kubina, so how did these trades help in this aspect? We should not be in the situation we've been at this season regardless. There are a few of the contracts that are coming off the books this summer that we won't have to replace (Betts, Lappy for instance).

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 06:41 PM

But we got better for the rest of this season...instead of staying pat and being below average for the rest of the year. At least now if the goaltending does get a little better, we won't be rolling 2 rookies in the playoffs.

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged Goods (Post 44459075)
Expiring contracts in the NBA are only valuable because trades require roughly matching contracts to be completed, not because of differences in how the NBA salary cap works (although there are many).

I think if you interpret his point a bit more charitably, it does make some sense. The Flyers could have acquired players who were not impending UFAs, positioning themselves for a more constrained off-season approach. But they did not.

Exactly...rather then go out and get a couple guys who will make us carry a cap hit longer than this season and make us take on 2 more contracts then we needed all of that ends after this year.

So like I said, if we make a deep run with improved goaltending then great we have a shot at the cup. If not, we don't take on anymore contracts than we would've otherwise had to, and we don't take on anymore salary than we otherwise would've had to.

DUHockey9 02-19-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer Rob (Post 44459849)
But we got better for the rest of this season...instead of staying pat and being below average for the rest of the year. At least now if the goaltending does get a little better, we won't be rolling 2 rookies in the playoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer Rob (Post 44460043)
Exactly...rather then go out and get a couple guys who will make us carry a cap hit longer than this season and make us take on 2 more contracts then we needed all of that ends after this year.

So like I said, if we make a deep run with improved goaltending then great we have a shot at the cup. If not, we don't take on anymore contracts than we would've otherwise had to, and we don't take on anymore salary than we otherwise would've had to.

You are simply describing the exact rationale for acquiring "rentals".

The Flyers, despite struggling, are still a good team, and defense was their biggest need. They went after and acquired 2 guys that were relatively cheap because they are expiring contracts.

There is a ton of uncertainty this offseason with Pronger's situation and the expiring CBA. I still maintain these 2 acquisitions do not mean anything as far as our offseason plans. It's just, simply, safer.

Half the teams in the league are trying to acquire rentals right now, do they all have big offseason plans?

If it wasn't someone like Grossman, it would have had to be someone like Schenn or Jack Johnson; and that would have cost exponentially more. Paying a big price like that (presumably, roster players), only hurts your chances of winning now.

I think you're just reading into it too much. They're contract situation is unaffected because of these moves. They just decided to add some help for cheap. Low risk, potential for reward. It's the same reason others were going for it.

Edit: And this isn't to say I don't expect a "big" offseason. It's Homer, every offseason is interesting. I expect him to be in on Suter; especially as it becomes clearer that Pronger is done. I'm just saying, I think these 2 moves have absolutely nothing to do with big offseason plans. They are just rentals. There are a dozen or so of these types of moves every year. It's just a method of improving your team in the short term, for cheap.

Wayne Train 02-19-2012 07:19 PM

Ok they are rentals fine. But there's been talks of guys like Luke Schenn and Rick Nash who are far from cheap/rental players. All I'm saying is the Flyers could have went after other guys like there were rumors of and took on big salaries/more contracts but instead steered the rental way and can potentially position themsevles for a huge offseason

dawkins121 02-19-2012 07:33 PM

Well we certainly won't be building through the draft.

RJ8812 02-19-2012 07:56 PM

can this roster compete for the cup?


FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tom Sestito ($0.650m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Nicklas Grossman ($3.000m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.750m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $67,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,216,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $783,056

Jack de la Hoya 02-19-2012 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ8812 (Post 44465209)
can this roster compete for the cup?


FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tom Sestito ($0.650m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Nicklas Grossman ($3.000m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.750m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $67,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,216,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $783,056

Schenn's hit for next year shouldn't be that high, right?


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