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-   -   Mikko Kalteva - "Allsvenskan (SEL-2) is better then SM-Liiga" (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1114613)

TheFatOne 02-22-2012 01:43 PM

Mikko Kalteva - "Allsvenskan (SEL-2) is better then SM-Liiga"
 
Toughts? True or false?




http://translate.google.se/translate...n_finska_ligan


http://translate.google.se/translate...n_finska_ligan


http://www.hockeykanalen.se/1.254504...n_finska_ligan


"Premier League" = Allsvenskan/Sel 2...google translete what a joke.

YARR123 02-22-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landskronala (Post 44651341)

Allsvenskan seems to be a pretty good league, and some of the teams are indeed very big there. But better? Eh... Seems like mr. Kalteva is trying to make himself look better. For sure, theres a couple teams in SM-liiga that are probably more like Allsvenskan level teams, and overall SM-liiga is much more top heavy than Elitserien. But to say it's a better league seems pretty thick.

Jeepers Creeper 02-22-2012 03:02 PM

The top teams in the Allsvenskan are probably as competitive as half the teams in the SM-Liiga, but I highly doubt the overall level of play is better in the Allsvenskan.

Muuri 02-22-2012 03:26 PM

Kalteva of all players :laugh:

FiLe 02-22-2012 03:56 PM

If I understood it right, what Kalteva is quoted to say here is that "the difference isn't so big, but most clubs are more professional here."

My Swedish isn't top notch, but I can't find any comments towards actual levels of play. Maybe he meant that the organizations handle their stuff better? Which, well, while still disputable, isn't that tall a claim as alluding to a league that's better when players hit the ice.


But if he was truly referring to competitiveness, I'd say he put a bit of "Lapland extra" into his words. It's hard to buy it from a player who has never been quite anything special on the league he's supposedly mouthing down.

Jeepers Creeper 02-22-2012 04:09 PM

My Swedish isn't top notch either but good enough that the following part didn't leave much room for interpretation:

"Finländaren menar att hockeyallsvenskan är bättre än SM-liiga, den högsta divisionen i Finland.

- Den är lite bättre, det är inte så stor skillnad. Många klubbar är mer professionella här."

FiLe 02-22-2012 04:29 PM

I think it does, since neither Kalteva or the story as a whole still doesn't say HOW it's supposed to be better.

But if he really does mean the level of play, I definitely agree with the rest of you - the guy is talking out of his netherparts.

Jeepers Creeper 02-22-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiLe (Post 44661555)
I think it does, since neither Kalteva or the story as a whole still doesn't say HOW it's supposed to be better.

I think he stated it quite clearly: "Den [hockeyallsvenskan] är lite bättre", obviously referring to the level of play. As for his reasoning behind it, he could not give any because, as you mentioned, he was talking out of his ass. Most likely he just tried to please the Swedish media and promote the league he plays in.

cheerupmurray 02-22-2012 05:42 PM

No way Allsvenskan is as good as SM-liiga, it's a surprisingly good league though.

bebl 02-23-2012 06:09 AM

Kalteva :laugh:

Finnpin 02-23-2012 07:10 AM

http://images.stuffofawesome.com/coo...18003-3273.jpg

Latex* 02-23-2012 08:52 AM

Lol


Obviously begging for attention.

Jokerit Wasp 02-23-2012 01:39 PM

Kalteva is obviously too good for SM-Liiga then.

Lui One Hall 02-23-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiLe (Post 44659493)
...
It's hard to buy it from a player who has never been quite anything special on the league he's supposedly mouthing down.

Why? Kaltava is a solid defensive dman, who played five years and over 250 games in SM-liiga. I'm sure he knows a thing or two about the league and the quality/level of play in FEL.

FiLe 02-23-2012 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fruktbomb (Post 44722111)
Why? Kaltava is a solid defensive dman, who played five years and over 250 games in SM-liiga. I'm sure he knows a thing or two about the league and the quality/level of play in FEL.

I think the guy above you put it quite well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jokerit Wasp (Post 44716061)
Kalteva is obviously too good for SM-Liiga then.

When I said that Kalteva was nothing special I didn't exactly mean that he sucked everyone's balls. What I meant was that he was pretty much completely average over here. Reliable, yes, but still mediocre. Nothing to write home about. And so forth.

Now he's making a claim that can be universally disputed. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have this thread to begin with.

There are around a hundred d-men currently who are reliable and solid enough to play in SM-liiga - guys like Kalteva. And then there are hundred more who are clearly better than him. Now, it doesn't really matter whether the claim is true or not. What matters is that you should have been in that upper half in the "worse" league if anyone is to believe you're "moving up" in the world.

TheFatOne 02-24-2012 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finnpin (Post 44697391)



:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

LiveeviL 02-25-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLabel (Post 44662955)
I think he stated it quite clearly: "Den [hockeyallsvenskan] är lite bättre", obviously referring to the level of play. As for his reasoning behind it, he could not give any because, as you mentioned, he was talking out of his ass. Most likely he just tried to please the Swedish media and promote the league he plays in.

Not obviously referring to the play as the follow up by him refers to more professional organisations in the Allsvenskan. I think it is unlikely that he thinks that the Allsvenskan is better in general than SM-liiga when it comes to the level of play.

But I would say that the organisations in Allsvenskan is not worse in general than the organisations in SEL. There are a heap of former SEL teams in Allsvenskan who got proved high standard of organisations (e.g. Leksand, Mora, Malmö and Södertälje). How that compares to the organisations in SM-liiga I do not know. I would not be very surprised that SEL/Allsvenskan in general (who is about the same level organisation wise) has an edge against SM-liiga teams in general when it comes to organisations.

LOFIN 02-25-2012 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveeviL (Post 44861697)
Not obviously referring to the play as the follow up by him refers to more professional organisations in the Allsvenskan. I think it is unlikely that he thinks that the Allsvenskan is better in general than SM-liiga when it comes to the level of play.

But I would say that the organisations in Allsvenskan is not worse in general than the organisations in SEL. There are a heap of former SEL teams in Allsvenskan who got proved high standard of organisations (e.g. Leksand, Mora, Malmö and Södertälje). How that compares to the organisations in SM-liiga I do not know. I would not be very surprised that SEL/Allsvenskan in general (who is about the same level organisation wise) has an edge against SM-liiga teams in general when it comes to organisations.

Probably because promotion/relegation actually works in Sweden. The time between 2000-2008 when SM-liiga was a closed league didn't really encourage organisations to actually work hard. Now it seems that the gap between top level Mestis teams and low level SM-liiga teams is becoming shorter and for the first time in many years, we actually have a chance of a team getting relegated to Mestis. Ilves no less, perhaps the most legendary club in SM-liiga. That would be quite amazing.

Jeepers Creeper 02-25-2012 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveeviL (Post 44861697)
Not obviously referring to the play as the follow up by him refers to more professional organisations in the Allsvenskan. I think it is unlikely that he thinks that the Allsvenskan is better in general than SM-liiga when it comes to the level of play.

I disagree. Saying league X is "better" than league Y without elaborating in what sense, to me it refers to the overall quality of the leagues (I should have said overall quality instead of level of play in the post you quoted. Poor wording on my part). If he had referred to professionalism he most likely would have left it with only saying the second part, that the Allsvenskan is "more professional".

Now we don't know what actually was said in the interview. It could be that the article is poorly worded. It also could be that Kalteva said something along the lines of "the Allsvenskan is better suited for me because the teams are more professional here" but was misquoted in the article. If that was the case then my interpretation would be different. But the wording as it is leads me to interpret the way I explained in the first paragraph.

Teus 02-25-2012 07:22 AM

I've been following Hockeyallsvenskan closely for a couple of years now, since Malmö is stuck there. It's a very good league and gets better every year. Nowadays it's not a league you will simply go in and dominate, because you have done well in a higher league. You have to adjust to the playing style etc as well, just like with players going from Elitserien to SM-Liiga, AHL etc. The league probably sneaks into the top 10 in the World.

But no, overall it's not as good as SM-Liiga. There are probably some Hockeyallsvenskan teams that would be able to do alright in SM-Liiga, but SM-Liiga for example got a bigger depth on high-end talent.

LiveeviL 02-25-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLabel (Post 44863629)
I disagree. Saying league X is "better" than league Y without elaborating in what sense, to me it refers to the overall quality of the leagues (I should have said overall quality instead of level of play in the post you quoted. Poor wording on my part). If he had referred to professionalism he most likely would have left it with only saying the second part, that the Allsvenskan is "more professional".

Now we don't know what actually was said in the interview. It could be that the article is poorly worded. It also could be that Kalteva said something along the lines of "the Allsvenskan is better suited for me because the teams are more professional here" but was misquoted in the article. If that was the case then my interpretation would be different. But the wording as it is leads me to interpret the way I explained in the first paragraph.

Perhaps you are right as I do not know very much about Kalteva or the interview in particular. I guess I try to rationalise Kalteva's statement, as I find it hard to think that he meant the level of play in general Allsvenskan vs SM-liiga, but perhaps he is a hater. the thing I could go on was the "Många klubbar är mer professionella här", as a clarification of his previous paragraph - which points to that it is the organisations he means. But the best way to know is to ask him, does he got Twitter by any chance?

Mara 02-26-2012 03:17 PM

When comparing the Swedish system with the Finnish system, it becomes obvious that Allsvenskan is very hard to judge from a Finnish perspective. The Finnish top league was closed for years, which basically ruined the competitiveness of the top 2nd league teams. It was reopened in 2008-2009. In the last 3 years they've started to recover, but the difference is still there and the system is still a brutal best of 7 between the best of 2nd lvl and last of top lvl.

Now compare that with the Swedish system, where you have 4 teams from Allsvenskan competing with 2 teams from Elitserien.

To me, after following Allsvenskan(I have a paid channel that shows it) it is obvious that Allsvenskan in general is not better than SM-liiga, but I'm fairly certain that the top4 of Allsvenskan could replace the 4 worst teams in SM-liiga and compete at least on the same level.

It has a lot to do with the populations and the way hockey is structured in the countries, even when the overall popularity of the sport is almost at the same level. Sweden has managed to create a system that encourages growth even in the 2nd highest level while Finland has stagnated and only 1-3 teams in the 2nd highest Finnish league could have a chance to compete in top level.

I believe that the Finnish SM-liiga simply has too many teams for the population. Instead of 14 teams it should be reduced to 10 and the relegation should be made similar to the Swedish system so that it would encourage growth for the 2nd level teams. But how would you do this without bankrupting the "worst four" teams or causing a huge fight over who will drop to the lower level?

It's a fact that Finnish hockey is somewhat stagnated. At least the junior program has been improved by miles in recent years.

Ciccarelli 03-01-2012 05:10 PM

Daniel Fernholm stated in an interview that he sees the SM-liiga as a better league than the Elitserien. Sooooooooo.....; Allsvenskan>SM-liiga>Elitserien..? Is this what we should gather from all of this? Or perhaps the players just want to be nice and compliment the league their playing in.

sirMcDuck 03-02-2012 06:03 AM

That's seems right. BTW, who is Mikko Kalteva?

TOP 3 NORDIC:

1. Allsvenskan
2. SM-Liiga
3. Elitserien

sources: Mikko Kalteva and Danny Fernholm

thomast 03-02-2012 08:10 AM

Mika Hannula stated that Elitserien is slightly better league than SM-Liiga but game is more physical and has much higher tempo in FEL.


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