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-   -   Speculation: The defense for next year. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1118677)

DeflatedFootball7 02-26-2012 12:22 AM

The defense for next year.
 
I don't know about you guys but I have been very happy with Grossman and Kubina .

I'm excited to see how the defense looks next year considering we have these two on expiring contracts, and the additional fact the Carle is UFA.

Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Carle(UFA)
Grossman(UFA)-Kubina(UFA)

Bourdon(UFA)-Gustaffson

What would you like to see? Free agents? Trade Deadline? Who would you like to see walk? 2012 draft? Re-Sign?

I'd love to hear your guy's thoughts.

Prongo 02-26-2012 12:24 AM

Suter that's all I want.

Suter-Suter
Suter-Suter
Suter-Weber

Okay I want Weber too!

Okay I'll answer honestly I guess. If Suter is available go hard for him. I wouldn't mind resigning Grossman or Kubina(Grossman more though because of age and contract).

Maybe roll these pairings

Kimmo-Coburn
Suter-Mez
Grossman-Gus/MAB
Lilja

DumpyD 02-26-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 (Post 44947729)
Suter that's all I want.

Suter-Suter
Suter-Suter
Suter-Weber

Okay I want Weber too!

Prepare to be disappointed!

sobrien 02-26-2012 01:14 AM

Carle gone. Kubina gone unless he takes a big pay cut. Grossman back. Suter in.

Suter - Coburn
Timonen - Grossman
Gustafsson - Mez
Lilja/Bourdon

Jtown 02-26-2012 01:36 AM

I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

hckyplayer8 02-26-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 44950533)
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

I'm so playtered but I really wanna hear your reasoning for this.

Kimmo has easily been our top defensive player for rte past four years and you want to trade him jst becauyse he has been human the past two weeks?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Krishna 02-26-2012 01:41 AM

Suter, Weber, Johnson.

Get 1 or possibly 2

sobrien 02-26-2012 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 44950681)
Suter, Weber, Johnson.

Get 1 or possibly 2

Erik?

BillDineen 02-26-2012 02:03 AM

Bourdon is an RFA. Sign Grossman and say bye-bye to Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarle.

Ilkka Sinisalo 02-26-2012 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 44950533)
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

lol, just because he tires late in the year he should just retire? he's called on to do a lot (especially with Pronger out), is a very good puck mover and point man on the PP, and plays solid positional defense. He's pulling his weight relative to cap number a hell of a lot more than some other guys (briere and bryz being the glaring ones)

SolidSnakeUS 02-26-2012 02:47 AM

If we can afford Suter:

Timonen-Suter
Mez-Grossman
Coburn-MAB
Gus

If not:

Timonen-Coburn
Mez-Grossman
Kubina-MAB
Gus

I definitely do love Grossman and would be easy to re-sign if you ask me. Kubina said he didn't want to test UFA waters and wanted to re-sign.

BillDineen 02-26-2012 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS (Post 44952175)
If we can afford Suter:

Timonen-Suter
Mez-Grossman
Coburn-MAB
Gus

If not:

Timonen-Coburn
Mez-Grossman
Kubina-MAB
Gus

I definitely do love Grossman and would be easy to re-sign if you ask me. Kubina said he didn't want to test UFA waters and wanted to re-sign.

I do agree with both of these options. I would even pass on re-signing Jagr for the extra dollars to do it.

Outside of those options and generally speaking, this organization is excellent at identifying forwards. Between drafts (Gagne, Williams, Downie, Richards, Carter, Giroux), trades (Lupul, Versteeg) and the current roster this is clear.

Flyers almost have too much talent in forwards that do not need to show up every night. Lupul and Versteeg are doing better with teams with thinner talent. I believe both JVR and Briere would score significantly more if they were on Toronto or Florida. This team just doesn't need them every night, so they do not feel the urgency that some players require to perform consistently. As such, a forward like Gaustad on any given night is probably more valuable than some inconsistent forwards in leading to points in the standings.

I believe Coburn and Meszaros are slightly overpaid for what they bring. Carle will be grossly overpaid by someone. Somehow, if Suter cannot be acquired, converting forward assets (JVR is highest although I would like to see them give him longer) into potential future No. d asset is needed IMO.

SolidSnakeUS 02-26-2012 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillDineen (Post 44952609)
I do agree with both of these options. I would even pass on re-signing Jagr for the extra dollars to do it.

Outside of those options and generally speaking, this organization is excellent at identifying forwards. Between drafts (Gagne, Williams, Downie, Richards, Carter, Giroux), trades (Lupul, Versteeg) and the current roster this is clear.

Flyers almost have too much talent in forwards that do not need to show up every night. Lupul and Versteeg are doing better with teams with thinner talent. I believe both JVR and Briere would score significantly more if they were on Toronto or Florida. This team just doesn't need them every night, so they do not feel the urgency that some players require to perform consistently. As such, a forward like Gaustad on any given night is probably more valuable than some inconsistent forwards in leading to points in the standings.

I believe Coburn and Meszaros are slightly overpaid for what they bring. Carle will be grossly overpaid by someone. Somehow, if Suter cannot be acquired, converting forward assets (JVR is highest although I would like to see them give him longer) into potential future No. d asset is needed IMO.

Honestly, we should just use our 1st rounder to get a D-man that could not necessarily be a stud #1, but at least draft a stud #2. Keep what we have and start drafting. I know we don't really have our 2nd rounds for this year and we should still have one for next draft. Personally, I'd still love to try to trade Carle for a really high 1st (25th to 30th) to a team that basically will go the playoffs. Even without Jagr, the forward lines could look like this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek (if re-signed)
JVR-Schenn-Briere
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Talbot-xxxx(Holmstrom maybe)-Wellwood
Rinaldo/Shelley/Sestito

Great top 3 lines and even the bottom 2 lines should be able to shutdown the opponent well enough (2-way forwards).

dats81 02-26-2012 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 44950533)
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

I'm all for option 1. Because that means that somehow hell has been freezing over in the playoffs and we won a cup :naughty:

JagerPuck 02-26-2012 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 44950533)
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

Been saying this myself. Not that I dont like him, he has just lost a step.

Its looking like the only contract the Flyers signed in the 2007 offseason that turned out to be a good deal was that of Scott Hartnell.

Briere, Timonen.

MountainHawk 02-26-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagerPuck (Post 44958325)
Been saying this myself. Not that I dont like him, he has just lost a step.

Its looking like the only contract the Flyers signed in the 2007 offseason that turned out to be a good deal was that of Scott Hartnell.

Briere, Timonen.

Timonen was a phenomenal deal, I don't know what you are talking about.

F L Y E R S 02-26-2012 10:40 AM

As long as Carle leaves, I will be happy.

FlyersFan61290 02-26-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 44950533)
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.

This makes no sense to me. I much rather get rid of Briere. Kimmo has 1 yr left w/ 6.33 cap hit whereas Briere has 3 yr left w/ 6.5 mil cap hit. Combined that w/ the fact that Flyers are stacked at forward and struggling on D.

With all that said I don't think either will be necessary as I don't see the Flyers landing Suter.

Flyerfan4life 02-26-2012 12:35 PM

i seriously expect Kimmo calls it a career this summer.

as long as Carle is gone i trust homer to get right D signed.

sa cyred 02-26-2012 12:42 PM

Timonen, statistically, is having his best season as a Flyer... dont know where all this other stuff is coming at. Would LOVE to see this team without Timonen and playa bunch of 3/4 defenders to save money. Would be hilarious. Reminds me of last offseason where people wanted to trade Timonen and some on here were 100% confortable with Meszaros, Carle and Coburn leading the front.

JGalt 02-26-2012 12:53 PM

The notion that this team could in anyway be better off without Kimmo Timonen is just bat **** crazy.

DumpyD 02-26-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa cyred (Post 44968709)
Timonen, statistically, is having his best season as a Flyer... dont know where all this other stuff is coming at. Would LOVE to see this team without Timonen and playa bunch of 3/4 defenders to save money. Would be hilarious. Reminds me of last offseason where people wanted to trade Timonen and some on here were 100% confortable with Meszaros, Carle and Coburn leading the front.

Statistically a lot of people are having great seasons. This offense has turned Max Talbot into a 20 goal scorer. Doesn't mean he has been stellar defensively.

Even still, I'm fine with him playing the remainder of his contract. There are other players on the team who are more of a burden due to their contracts.

Jtown 02-26-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 (Post 44964807)
This makes no sense to me. I much rather get rid of Briere. Kimmo has 1 yr left w/ 6.33 cap hit whereas Briere has 3 yr left w/ 6.5 mil cap hit. Combined that w/ the fact that Flyers are stacked at forward and struggling on D.

With all that said I don't think either will be necessary as I don't see the Flyers landing Suter.

Of course Id much rather get rid of Brieres contract and Shelleys, and prongers etc etc. But kimmo contract is the most likely to be dealt because it actually holds value for another team whereas those other contracts are abysmal to any team. We would have to give up a top asset for a team to take one of those contracts.

PALE PWNR 02-26-2012 02:30 PM

Im on board with Kimmo gone after the season. I like him as a player but looking at the bigger picture his contract hurts. Yes he is our best defensemen and on a better contract have no problem with him being here forever. All that say no what would you rather have us play #3 and #4 defensemen no, the point would be to unload his contract as well as Carles as well as Kubinas and go out and get some stud D to more friendly contracts who are as good or better. My plan for the offseason?

Let Carle and Kubina walk unless Kubina can take a big pay cut. Resign Grossman. Try to move Kimmo and possibly Coburn. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm fairly certain that thats close to 20 million in cap space. Obviously if this is all done, Suter is an absolute must, and I would push to get Weber here as well. Kimmo + Coburn for Weber + Suters rights?

Weber-Suter
Kubina-Pronger
Meszaros-Grossman
Lilja

That Defense is HUGE and most provide some offense as well as having the ability to play extremely physical

Edit: Maybe Im out to lunch and playing too much NHL 12 but I think its possible, Kimmo has a NMC but maybe he would Waive to go back to NAS. Im not sure how much we'de have to add to make that happen though, probably a pick or 2 and a prospect

Tim Tebow 02-26-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALE PWNR (Post 44978353)
Im on board with Kimmo gone after the season. I like him as a player but looking at the bigger picture his contract hurts. Yes he is our best defensemen and on a better contract have no problem with him being here forever. All that say no what would you rather have us play #3 and #4 defensemen no, the point would be to unload his contract as well as Carles as well as Kubinas and go out and get some stud D to more friendly contracts who are as good or better. My plan for the offseason?

Let Carle and Kubina walk unless Kubina can take a big pay cut. Resign Grossman. Try to move Kimmo and possibly Coburn. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm fairly certain that thats close to 20 million in cap space. Obviously if this is all done, Suter is an absolute must, and I would push to get Weber here as well. Kimmo + Coburn for Weber + Suters rights?

Weber-Suter
Kubina-Pronger
Meszaros-Grossman
Lilja

That Defense is HUGE and most provide some offense as well as having the ability to play extremely physical

Edit: Maybe Im out to lunch and playing too much NHL 12 but I think its possible, Kimmo has a NMC but maybe he would Waive to go back to NAS. Im not sure how much we'de have to add to make that happen though, probably a pick or 2 and a prospect

Yeah there is no way Nashville will give us Weber and Suter for Timonen and Coburn. Weber is a RFA so he is still controlled by Nashville so his value stays the same as if he was under contract (extremely high think what we gave up for Pronger, a top prospect, a couple 1st rounders, and an everyday top 6 or top 4 player). Trading for Suter's rights while cheaper would be pointless because he is going to test the FA market anyway, the only way we sign him before that is if we make him a huge offer he can't refuse. Plus if they are losing both Weber and Suter I don't see why they would want Timonen. They would officially be in rebuilding mode rendering a soon to be 38 year old defenseman useless.


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