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-   -   Value of: Young, NHL-ready defensemen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1126689)

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 04:20 PM

Young, NHL-ready defensemen
 
The Pens have a unique problem - too many solid defense prospects knocking at the door.

The NHL blueline is set and already leaving Lovejoy on the sidelines most games, and Despres will almost certainly force his way onto the big team next year. This leaves guys like Strait and Bortuzzo out in the cold...unfair given how well they've performed in the A and how seamlessly they transitioned to the NHL game during their limited auditions.

So...what sort of picks/prospects would you offer up for steady young defense prospects who are ready to step into NHL duty?

ArrogantOwl 03-04-2012 04:30 PM

It really depends on what the other teams needs are, and to what level they can play.

Kershaw 03-04-2012 04:30 PM

2nd-3rd round picks IMO.

mstad101 03-04-2012 04:38 PM

Is Strait or Bortuzzo right handed?

Would you accept RFA Mason Raymond without a contract sign, say Draft day?

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 45508043)
2nd-3rd round picks IMO.

Not a bad offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstad101 (Post 45508617)
Is Strait or Bortuzzo right handed?

Would you accept RFA Mason Raymond without a contract sign, say Draft day?

Bortuzzo is. Lovejoy too.

Raymond is good value-wise, I'm just not sure he brings much that we don't already have. We have speedy, defensively responsible LH forwards with no hands in spades. Jordan Schroeder would be a better target from our end.

LeafsYoungGuns 03-04-2012 05:00 PM

For a young NHL ready defencemen you should be able to get a young NHL ready forward of similar talent or 2nd/3rd rd pick depending on the player

Blitzburgh87* 03-04-2012 05:15 PM

I'd rather package them to get a proven forward with scoring potential and a good contract.

mstad101 03-04-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 (Post 45510615)
I'd rather package them to get a proven forward with scoring potential and a good contract.

In the right situation, this is a sales pitch of Mason Raymond.

But Rowdy has already explained what he's not looking for, which I understand, another Dupius for you guys, with less strength.

Schroeder would easily be available for something along those lines.

I don't like trading our 08 09 first round picks in the same year, but to get a quality defense prospect who could push Tanev to keep developing and eventually have himself a roster spot as well.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstad101 (Post 45511131)
In the right situation, this is a sales pitch of Mason Raymond.

But Rowdy has already explained what he's not looking for, which I understand, another Dupius for you guys, with less strength.

Schroeder would easily be available for something along those lines.

I don't like trading our 08 09 first round picks in the same year, but to get a quality defense prospect who could push Tanev to keep developing and eventually have himself a roster spot as well.

Yeah, Schroeder for Bortuzzo sounds like a good basis for a deal.

Reaper45 03-04-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 45507245)
The Pens have a unique problem - too many solid defense prospects knocking at the door.

The NHL blueline is set and already leaving Lovejoy on the sidelines most games, and Despres will almost certainly force his way onto the big team next year. This leaves guys like Strait and Bortuzzo out in the cold...unfair given how well they've performed in the A and how seamlessly they transitioned to the NHL game during their limited auditions.

So...what sort of picks/prospects would you offer up for steady young defense prospects who are ready to step into NHL duty?

Kings are in the same spot, hell lots of teams are.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 45513395)
Kings are in the same spot, hell lots of teams are.

The Kings would also qualify, sure. But if there were as many teams in that position as you claim, a deal like Ashton for Aulie would never have happened.

Young, overripe defense prospects are in demand, and recent history corroborates that idea.

Brooklanders* 03-04-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 45507245)
The Pens have a unique problem - too many solid defense prospects knocking at the door.

The NHL blueline is set and already leaving Lovejoy on the sidelines most games, and Despres will almost certainly force his way onto the big team next year. This leaves guys like Strait and Bortuzzo out in the cold...unfair given how well they've performed in the A and how seamlessly they transitioned to the NHL game during their limited auditions.
So...what sort of picks/prospects would you offer up for steady young defense prospects who are ready to step into NHL duty?

I would offer ray Whitney for simon desperes straight up because I like that guy

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklanders (Post 45515997)
I would offer ray Whitney for simon desperes straight up because I like that guy

Despres is not available...and Whitney's a free agent this summer, so we could sign him for nothing.

mpp9 03-04-2012 06:36 PM

Anyone give an outsider any info on Schroeder? I know he's versatile, has top 6 scoring upside and may have troubles with his size in the NHL, but not much else.

Capn Brown 03-04-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 45513395)
Kings are in the same spot, hell lots of teams are.


True. If we could unload Hickey at the 2012 draft for a 2nd round pick, things would be good. He's ready to step in next year, but not with the Kings.

bigd 03-04-2012 07:34 PM

Depending on how their defensmen play in the playoffs they may or may not keep them. I wouldn't give Despres a spot just yet. If they still have Strait and Bortuzzo next season then they would be waiver eligable. My guess is Despres would go down to WBS because he doesn't have to pass through waivers and Bortuzzo and Strait do. I betting that Lovejoy will be gone and possibly one other D-man from the big pens. Anyways, I think the Pens will very active at the draft table this year since it's in Pittsburgh.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 03-04-2012 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd (Post 45521423)
Depending on how their defensmen play in the playoffs they may or may not keep them. I wouldn't give Despres a spot just yet. If they still have Strait and Bortuzzo next season then they would be waiver eligable. My guess is Despres would go down to WBS because he doesn't have to pass through waivers and Bortuzzo and Strait do. I betting that Lovejoy will be gone and possibly one other D-man from the big pens. Anyways, I think the Pens will very active at the draft table this year since it's in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, it's hard to say. My contention was that Despres might just leapfrog Strait and Bortuzzo if he has a great camp. If he doesn't, that sure makes decisions easier.

Either way, looks like there's a fair bit of movement on the horizon for blueliners in the org.

SIDGENO8771 03-04-2012 07:49 PM

Im ok with Bortuzzo for Schroeder.

School of WristShot 03-04-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpp9 (Post 45516611)
Anyone give an outsider any info on Schroeder? I know he's versatile, has top 6 scoring upside and may have troubles with his size in the NHL, but not much else.

Schroeder struggled last year and early this season but now he's turned around his game and is really coming around (near PPG last 20 games) and should get a call up if current top6 goes down injured now that Canucks have cap space and Hodgson is gone. He plays all situations and is developing into a solid two-way center under MacTavish. He is a great skater and has the shot and hands. His consistent effort was biggest concern but now he's really involved in most of the game and making things happening. Last season, I'd probably say it's top six or bust for Schroeder due to his size but he's really improved he's defensive game and he can play on a third line if he does not make it to top 6 role. Schroeder was used as a winger before due to his size and Canucks center depth but was not a success. His natural position is a center and that's where he's most comfortable.
By the way, Pens are not getting Schroeder for Bortuzzo. Canucks are now short on center prospects and Bortuzzo would be exactly be in same situation, in minors next season. Canucks need a defenseman who can step in ahead of Salo (although UFA but I see him playing another year) and that's pretty tough thing to do from a prospect. And simply value is not there from Vancouver's POV. Bortuzzo would probably garner a 2nd/3rd from another team not previous first rounder who's finally coming along.

Hansen 36 03-04-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelKesler17 (Post 45527649)
Schroeder struggled last year and early this season but now he's turned around his game and is really coming around (near PPG last 20 games) and should get a call up if current top6 goes down injured now that Canucks have cap space and Hodgson is gone. He plays all situations and is developing into a solid two-way center under MacTavish. He is a great skater and has the shot and hands. His consistent effort was biggest concern but now he's really involved in most of the game and making things happening. Last season, I'd probably say it's top six or bust for Schroeder due to his size but he's really improved he's defensive game and he can play on a third line if he does not make it to top 6 role. Schroeder was used as a winger before due to his size and Canucks center depth but was not a success. His natural position is a center and that's where he's most comfortable.
By the way, Pens are not getting Schroeder for Bortuzzo. Canucks are now short on center prospects and Bortuzzo would be exactly be in same situation, in minors next season. Canucks need a defenseman who can step in ahead of Salo (although UFA but I see him playing another year) and that's pretty tough thing to do from a prospect. And simply value is not there from Vancouver's POV. Bortuzzo would probably garner a 2nd/3rd from another team not previous first rounder who's finally coming along.

This, with Hodgson gone, Gillis has put it all into his belief that Schroeder will be next in top 6 centers for us and that he has become solid defensively under MacTavish. He'll probably be our third line center in the next year or two and He won't be traded for anything but an overpayment now and is a previous 1st rounder who was projected top 10 but for his size. I'd offer this years' 2nd and 6th for Bortuzzo and 4th.

Captain Hook 03-04-2012 09:19 PM

Despres goes nowhere.

Strait is very solid. I think he's an NHL'er, but he's also kind of meh. He has limited upside. I guess he'd technically be a defensive D-Man. He's a little on the small side though. We might squeeze something out of another team for him, but he also may be another Nick Johnson. A decent prospect that another team may claim off waivers, but not trade for.

Bortuzzo is the one that probably has decent value. He's got great size and the tools to play in the league. I definitely think someone would give up something for him, but I have no idea what. A mid-round pick or a similar value forward prospect sounds about right.

Lovejoy's value is minimal. He's a 6th or 7th D-Man.

It will be interesting to see what Shero does. He has options. He could move Niskanen's rights or re-sign him and maybe move a veteran like Martin or Michalek to make that work. Despres will slide into the lineup if/when somebody is moved. I'd imagine Bortuzzo will battle Lovejoy for a roster spot next season as well. My guess is Strait is lost to waivers.

seanlinden 03-04-2012 09:26 PM

When dealing with guys like this... there are generally 2 ways that things happen.

The first -- An AHL / Prospect positional swap, similar to the Keith Aulie / Carter Ashton deal. You find a team low on defensive prospects and high on forwards (likely wingers) and you make a deal. To me, a team that would stand out is Columbus, because defencemen generally take longer to develop, they may be willing to part with a forward.

The second route -- identify an NHL player that you want.... and hope that GM really likes one of the prospects you're trying to cash out on.

Calad 03-04-2012 09:39 PM

I'm guessing you can look at the Tim Erixon deal this past offseason and figure it out from there. (Two 2nds and a minor prospect for Erixon and a 5th)

CanuckHero 03-04-2012 09:54 PM

Now that the Canucks have Gragnani and Connauton I don't see them going after another young defenseman

The Podium 03-04-2012 09:57 PM

Leafs have the same problem which is why the made the Aulie deal. That type of return is what you should expect, prospects of similar value which will fit a need for your team.


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