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-   -   Henke Vezina snub ? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1132151)

Dorado* 03-11-2012 10:11 AM

Henke Vezina snub ?
 
Who besides me thinks Henke gets the bridesmaids dress again and Pekka Rinne gets the trophy ?

Also Torts the Clown gets pipped by Fatty McGoo Hitchcock

Vitto79 03-11-2012 10:15 AM

No way. Rangers are first in the East with 15 or so games left...........Hank wins it finally

Jabroni 03-11-2012 10:19 AM

Hank can't get cheated out of it this year.

I really feel like it's finally his year.

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 10:22 AM

I can't see it. Even with the slump his stats are still superior to Rinne's in every way except wins.

His GAA is almost .50 lower and he has 4 more shutouts. Not to mention the SV%

Dactyl 03-11-2012 10:22 AM

i dont know hes been playing really well this whole year but the team hasnt played well recently i think his last 3 starts he allowed 3 goals after going like a month of allowing 2 goals or less it wouldnt surprise me if they give it to quick saying something like "hes better because he doesnt have a team in front of him and still has good numbers while lundqvist has a 1st place team playing in front of him"

Dactyl 03-11-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdEye (Post 45886749)
I can't see it. Even with the slump his stats are still superior to Rinne's in every way except wins.

His GAA is almost .50 lower and he has 4 more shutouts. Not to mention the SV%

if rinne hits 40 wins it could get interesting

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc55 (Post 45886765)
i dont know hes been playing really well this whole year but the team hasnt played well recently i think his last 3 starts he allowed 3 goals after going like a month of allowing 2 goals or less it wouldnt surprise me if they give it to quick saying something like "hes better because he doesnt have a team in front of him and still has good numbers while lundqvist has a 1st place team playing in front of him"

Quick will get a lot of votes but he won't win it. If you look at history usually the player with the best stats win and Hank has everyone beat by quite a bit right now

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc55 (Post 45886793)
if rinne hits 40 wins it could get interesting

A few more wins isn't going to be the deciding factor. Thomas won it with only 35 last season. Hank will probably get close to 40

Dactyl 03-11-2012 10:34 AM

we have all said hank deserved it (or last year deserved to be nominated) because of playing on a bad team now i know that argument has been overlooked but i could see it working for quick (just rangers kind of luck i guess) and also every vezina winner post lockout except TT has had 40+ wins

DMPD 03-11-2012 10:36 AM

Unless Hank keeps letting in 3 a game the rest of the way, I don't see him losing it.

I think Quick is closer than Rinne to be honest.

Jumbo* 03-11-2012 10:38 AM

Even if Lundqvist gives up 4 goals every game for the last 12 he plays he will still get it.

Its finally his.

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc55 (Post 45887029)
we have all said hank deserved it (or last year deserved to be nominated) because of playing on a bad team now i know that argument has been overlooked but i could see it working for quick (just rangers kind of luck i guess) and also every vezina winner post lockout except TT has had 40+ wins

Quick hasn't been that great lately either I think.

I think Quick could still win it but Hank is pretty far in the lead. They would literally have to go in opposite directions for the remainder of the season

We do have a tough schedule coming up, so who knows

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgerfan (Post 45887121)
Even if Lundqvist gives up 4 goals every game for the last 12 he plays he will still get it.

Its finally his.

That's definitely not true. I think if he's just average the rest of the way he'll still win it. If he gives up 4 the rest of the way one of Quick or Rinne will pass him quickly

I Am Chariot 03-11-2012 10:44 AM

I think Henrik will need a strong finish... the points in March are the same as the pts in October but these last 20 games going toward the playoffs get more attention from everyone in the hockey universe.

Chimp 03-11-2012 11:11 AM

While Hank has had games hurting his stats recently, so have all the other goalies in the competition as well. He still has a significant lead in all important categories. Him breaking TT's stat record season is in danger though. Our banged up defense is starting to come down to earth.

Hank should deservedly win the Vezina because of dominant consistency during his entire NHL career, not just because of this season. People praise Quick for carrying his fringe playoff team with horrible offense, well, Hank has done that his entire career except for this season (now he's the backbone of a legit playoff team). It didn't get him any Vezina, neither will it get Quick one.

we want cup 03-11-2012 11:39 AM

Quick is a bigger concern than Rinne for me, but I still think Hank wins it. The Vezina is such a "reputation" award, and this year Hank seems to be the goalie everyone is going gaga over.

Dfence033 03-11-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdEye (Post 45886841)
A few more wins isn't going to be the deciding factor. Thomas won it with only 35 last season. Hank will probably get close to 40

The way both are trending right now, if they continue, we could be looking at:

62 games, 40-17-5 (64.5% wins), 9 shutouts, .932 SV%, 1.97 GAA
vs.
73 games, 47-17-7 (64.4%), 5 shutouts, .928 SV%, 2.18 GAA


It's a lot closer than people might think. SV% could look very similar, and sure, Hank would have GAA (0.21) and shutouts (4) by a decent bit, but it's also hard to overlook that Rinne may very well end up with high 40s in wins. The leader was 38 in 2010-2011 (Thomas won with 35). The leader was 45 in 2009-2010 (Miller won with 41). The leader had 45 in 2008-2009 (Thomas won with 36).


76 games, 45 wins (59.2%), 2.84 GAA, .903 SV%, 4 shutouts
vs
54 games, 36 wins (66.7%), 2.10 GAA, .933 SV%, 5 shutouts

Thomas won with a much higher win % (7.5%), much lower GAA (0.74), much higher SV% (0.30), and one more shutout in far fewer games (-22). Not comparable to Rinne/Lundqvist this year. Thomas won EVERYTHING but wins, and by a substantial bit.

Miller's:
69 games, 41 wins (59.4%), 2.22 GAA, .929 SV%, 5 shutouts
vs
77 games, 45 wins (58.4%), 2.24 GAA, .916 SV%, 9 shutouts

Miller beat Brodeur because of being in the same class in wins (within 9%), while beating him in everything but shutouts. This is the closest comparable, and Buffalo won a powerhouse division that year, although many feel as if it should have been Marty's. I think it will be similar this year. Rangers win the division: Lundqvist's. Predators win theirs: Rinne's. If Rinne finishes with 47 wins and Lundqvist finishes with 40, Lundqvist would be 15% off the leader's pace in wins. I'd think that makes up for the difference in GAA, and makes it substantially closer than a lot would think.

Thomas v2:
57 games, 35 wins (61.4%), 2.00 GAA, .938 SV%, 9 shutouts
vs
60 games, 38 wins (63.3%), 2.11 GAA, .928 SV%, 4 shutouts
72 games, 38 wins (52.3%), 2.35 GAA, .923 SV%, 8 shutouts

Thomas again won every stat by a good bit. GAA by 0.11 and 0.35, SV% by 0.10 and 0.15. Shutouts by 5 and 1. And was within 8% of the leaders wins. No one hit 40 wins last year, and that pushed the win total argument more or less out of the window. With one on pace to hit upper 40s, this argument doesn't apply this year.

UlfNilsson 03-11-2012 11:48 AM

It's funny how you can refer to Torts as a clown while the majority of Rangers fans think the team is overachieving. Who do you think is responsible for a good part of that? Sure, his stubbornness re: playing some useless players is bothersome. But this team is motivated. Did you expect this team to be anywhere near where they are in the standings right now when this season started?

Dfence033 03-11-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by we want cup (Post 45888865)
Quick is a bigger concern than Rinne for me, but I still think Hank wins it. The Vezina is such a "reputation" award, and this year Hank seems to be the goalie everyone is going gaga over.

The thing with Quick is that while he is only 4 behind Lundqvist in wins, Lundqvist has him beat in every statistical category. Wins (while playing fewer games), GAA, SV%, and shutouts. Quick is also a staggering 11 wins and 29% win percentage off of Rinne right now. The same arguments for Quick's defensive team can be made for Rinne's Predators, only Rinne is blowing him far away in wins, so much so that Quick is at best 3-4 right now (with Halak/Elliott).

Bob Richards 03-11-2012 11:57 AM

If Hank keeps up his numbers before the slump, he will have a GAA below 2.00 and could potentially break the single season Sv %. It's impossible for him to lose.

SnowblindNYR 03-11-2012 12:07 PM

WTF, is everyone's fascination with Rinne? Other than wins, because he plays every ****ing game on a good team, Lundqvist kills him in every other statistical category. If Lundqvist loses out on a Vezina it'll be to Quick.

I Am Chariot 03-11-2012 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 45890361)
WTF, is everyone's fascination with Rinne? Other than wins, because he plays every ****ing game on a good team, Lundqvist kills him in every other statistical category. If Lundqvist loses out on a Vezina it'll be to Quick.


Pekka is an outstanding goaltender. He's had some rough spots this year but you watch Pekka you see a great goaltender.

SnowblindNYR 03-11-2012 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numinous (Post 45892559)
Pekka is an outstanding goaltender. He's had some rough spots this year but you watch Pekka you see a great goaltender.

I don't care how many great saves he makes he's given up over half a goal more than Lundqvist the entire season. His stats are not in the same stratosphere as the best goalies in the league. Lundqvist would have as many wins if he played every game too. It's Quick or Lundqvist.

Dfence033 03-11-2012 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 45892765)
I don't care how many great saves he makes he's given up over half a goal more than Lundqvist the entire season. His stats are not in the same stratosphere as the best goalies in the league. Lundqvist would have as many wins if he played every game too. It's Quick or Lundqvist.

For what it's worth, every goalies stats pro-rated to seasons end coinciding with their stats over the last 7.5%* of their seasons (taking into account what percentage of starts they have made of their teams games played) (*selected since that's Lundqvist's current slump, as stated before in the thread: "If he continues at his slump he'd still win") is as follows:

Lundqvist:
61 games, 34-19-8, 55.7 win %, 2.17 GAA, .927 SV%, 8 shutouts

Rinne:
74 games, 48-14-10, 64.9 win %, 2.29 GAA, .925 SV%, 4 shutouts

Quick:
69 games, 33-25-11, 47.8 win %, 2.17 GAA, .920 SV%, 7 shutouts

Halak:
46 games, 30-11-5, 65.2 win %, 1.84 GAA, .930 SV%, 6 shutouts


If you go straight-stats, Halak wins (best win%, lowest GAA, highest SV%). If you throw him out because of games played (46), then straight-stats says it's Lundqvists (Tied for 1st GAA, Best SV%, 2nd most wins, 2nd highest win%, most shutouts). And then you look at that wins differential.

What's more impressive? Being 0.12 GAA and 0.02 SV% better than your competition? Or having 14 more wins (41% better) than your closest competition? It's not as far and away as you'd be assuming here, snowblind.

Edit: In response to the bolded, no, he wouldn't. Rinne is on pace for 14 more WINS with Lundqvist having 13 fewer STARTS. Lundqvist would somehow have to go 14-0-0 in the 13 starts to make up the gap between the two.

ThirdEye 03-11-2012 01:13 PM

Um, who cares about this prorated crap? Yeah, let's take Hank's only slump of the season and pro-rate it the rest of the way after he's been a monster the whole season. How convenient

And there is no way in hell Rinne is going to finish with 14 more wins. That would essentially mean that Hank will lose like 80% of the remaining games while Rinne wins almost every one of his. Do you honestly think this is a realistic possibility for a team that has been in first place for majority of the season?


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