ATD 2012 Line-up Assassination Thread
With my roster complete, figured it was time...
Minnesota Fighting Saints
GM: Nalyd Psycho
Head Coach: Al Arbour
Captain: Dit Clapper
Assistant Captains: Maurice Richard & Guy Carbonneau
#40 Henrik Zetterberg-#26 Peter ťastný-#9 Maurice Richard
#19 Markus Näslund-#25 Jacques Lemaire-#13 Bill Guerin
#21 Harry Westwick-#21 Guy Carbonneau-#16 Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
#22 Dennis Hextall-#15 Jaroslav Holík-#12 Ron Stewart
#4 Bill Gadsby-#5 Dit Clapper
#2 Derian Hatcher-#6 Art Duncan
#3 Frantiek Tikal-#8 Harry Mummery
#1 Hugh Lehman
#30 Tim Thomas
Spares: #14 Mattias Norström, D-#44 Barry Ashbee, D-#11 Art Gagne, RW-#7 Jason Arnott
First Power Play Unit:
Second Power Play Unit:
First Penalty Kill Unit:
Second Penalty Kill Unit:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant coach: Dan Bylsma
Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant coach: Dan Bylsma
Bobby Hull-Darryl Sittler-Cam Neely
Wendel Clark-Max Bentley -Tod Sloan
Ray Whitney-Brent Sutter-Paul Henderson
Scott Hartnell--Doug Jarvis-Tomas Holmstrom
Carl Brewer-Nikolai Sologubov
Brian Rafalski-Al Iafrate
Bill Barilko- Charlie Huddy
Marc Andre Fleury
Overall: Built on the classic model, with the most strength on the blueline and at center, this is a team that will have a lot of the puck. It is also a team that will lean heavily on its first units at even strength and on the powerplay, as the depth scoring is not particularly dangerous. But the first unit is very strong and is spearheaded by one of the all-time great playoff scorers, and the team is well-built to protect a lead, so it is definitely a formula that can work.
Goal: You got a good one in Hughie Lehman, who I wanted to draft as my starter last year. The more we look into the split league era, the more the line between Vezina, Benedict and Lehman seems to blur. Benedict's status in the ATD is well-established, and he was by far the biggest winner of the three, but I think the other two have been and remain somewhat underrated in this thing. Lehman's peak longevity is simply remarkable. He was a first team all star for something like fifty seven seasons in a row in the PCHA, most of the time beating out Holmes, which is not weak competition. He had his hiccups in the playoffs, but playoff performance is only one part of a player's career, and should not be overblown. I think he is the equal of Tony Esposito, who we know is capable of backstopping an ATD champion.
Defense: The top pairing among the best in the league. It is physical, fast, and very strong both ways. A complete and dominant top pairing; not much else to say about it. The second pairing is fairly average, I think. I have been a critic of Derian Hatcher in this draft not because I think he was such a terrible value where you took him (though maybe he was a bit of a reach), but because I think he is overrated relative to other defensive defensemen like Schoenfeld and Beck. I think Hatcher is a classic example of a recently retired player whose intangibles are blown out of proportion (in this case in a positive way). That being said, Hatcher is fine in his role on this team. He is either a low-end #3 or an excellent #4, and will do a good job for you if given a suitable partner.
Art Duncan is a good partner for Hatcher. I am not as high on him as you seem to be. He obviously had one very strong season where he was arguably the best defenseman in the world (though I would probably choose George Boucher in that season), and was a PCHA 1st team all-star three times, overall. I don't put a whole lot of value in PCHA 2nd team all-star selections, especially at defense and especially later on after the Patricks retired. It was a four team league in most seasons, and other than Moose Johnson, there really wasn't a whole lot of high-end depth on the blueline. Even a 1st team PCHA selection in the seasons Duncan did it is of somewhat questionable value to me. In today's terms, I think it is probably equivalent value to a 5th - 10th finish in AST voting, and a 2nd team finish is probably about 10th - 15th value (and that is being generous). Duncan's best season is probably worth a 1st AST finish in today's terms; for a defenseman to lead any top league in scoring is a big deal. So if you convert Duncan's peak performance to today's terms, I think his peak is worth something like this in equivalent AST voting finishes:
It is at any rate a very big backline, with good complementary parts, an extremely strong top pairing and a 2nd pairing that will get the job done.
Forwards: The Stastny - Richard combination on your top line will produce a lot of points, especially in the playoffs, where both men consistently raised their level of play. They will not, however, play much defense. In theory, a classic "spear carrier" who can win pucks and be the line's defensive conscience would have made sense on the left wing. You took Zetterberg where I would have taken Propp. Zett was certainly worth the pick where you chose him, but a meaningful chunk of his defensive value is lost on the wing, and he doesn't contribute as much grit and puckwinning as you'd like to see in that spot. The line can go with "puckwinning by committee" and get away with it, but I do think it is a small weakness that would have been better addressed with a more physical left winger. Zett's defense from the wing is going to be put to a severe test against ATD 1st line RWs and on a line with a couple of guys who aren't going to help out much. It is fortunate that this line will be backed by such a strong top pairing most of the time at even strength.
The second line is not one of my favorites. Jacques Lemaire is certainly a strong 2nd line center, but he is a tricky player to build around, and I don't know if I like the combination of pieces here. He is not your typical high-end playmaker from the center position. Indeed, there are centers available quite a few rounds later who were better playmakers than Jacques. So, in theory, he needs a winger who can carry the playmaking for the line. Billy Guerin, while I think a fine 2nd liner at even strength, is obviously not that guy. So that leaves the primary playmaking duties to Marcus Naslund. I like Naz, but I think that is asking a bit too much of him at this level. Naslund could pass the puck, but he is a slightly biased goalscorer, himself, and...I just think the line is going to sputter at times. Lemaire is obviously a very strong two-way player and Guerin was a reliable checker with a lot of grit, so the line will play well both ways even when the offense runs cold.
The third line is ok. Carbonneau is obviously an outstanding checker with at least decent offensive value. I would normally try to flank Carbonneau with really strong defensive wingers and make it a pure shutdown unit, with any offense considered a bonus. You have chosen to go with two-way players on the wings. Gustafsson, I like as a two-way third liner who you got at good value. He was a strong all-arounder and a terrific skater in his prime. I am less high on Westwick, who I see as more of a good 4th liner. Maybe I just need convincing, but I think you'd have been better off with a guy like Jiri Holik, Gilles Tremblay or Adam Graves where you took Westwick. The wings aren't strong enough defensively to make this a shutdown line, and the line as a whole isn't strong enough offensively to be a great two-way unit, either. I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but it looks below-average to me.
Special teams first units look strong other than Westwick on the 1st unit PK. Again...maybe I just need to be sold; you obviously value him higher than I do. Second units are only ok.
In the end, this team will live and die by its top units, at even strength and on special teams. Those top units are very strong, so it will be interesting to see what happens when you come up against an opponent with more depth.
-Once again a fantastic 1st line for the Leafs. Hull and Neely are straight forward bull-dozer types of course, but you can't ask for a better center than Bentley between those two to get them both the puck. There may be a notion that there isn't enough pucks to go around for these three, but I don't buy it. One of the best first lines in the league.
-Pretty big drop off to the second wave. Sittler is the only legit top 6'er on this line IMO. Clark is more of a prototypical 3rd line banger at this level and Sloan is Sloan. The pure offense of Sittler will provide some secondary offence but if the top line runs cold in a series this is a huge concern.
-Run of the mill 3rd line, but nice elements none the less. I like the Sutter-Henderson checking connection, but Whitney deosn't fit here.
-Jarvis is a great option as a 4th line C.
-Yikes. Can Brewer log 30 minutes a game? Because Huddy-Rafalski and Persson-Barilko would get exposed badly against a coach on the other side that has any matchup sense. A poor group of 6 overall that could be your downfall.
Broda is awesome obviously. Could stand on his head any series - and this may be your ticket to a couple series victories, despite holes on defence.
Bowman is one of the best obviously, but not the best IMO. He always had star-studded superior rosters to work with.
Overall not a bad entry this time LL, but we'll see what the others think. There's plenty to like (a kick-ass 1st line, star goaltender, some nice grit and heart scattered throughout) but there is also obvious holes.
Holmström on the first PK-unit? Sologubov on first pairing? I guess i know why did you draft 3 goalies, you plan to have two of them on the ice.
The Cincinnati Fireworks
Head Coach: Pete Green
Syd Howe - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald (A)
Dean Prentice - Rick MacLeish - Andy Bathgate
Bob Pulford - Dave Poulin (C) - Mario Tremblay
Red Hamill - Art Chapman - Rick Vaive
Al MacInnis (A) - Jacques Laperriere
Carol Vadnais - Herb Gardiner
Barclay Plager (A) - Ed Jovanovski
Extras: Clint Smith LW/C, Hakan Loob RW, Tomas Jonsson D
Syd Howe - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald
Al Macinnis - Andy Bathgate
Rick MacLeish - Art Chapman - Rick Vaive
Carol Vadnais - Ed Jovanovski
Bob Pulford - Dave Poulin
Jacques Laperierre - Herb Gardiner
Stan Mikita - Rick MacLeish
Al MacInnis - Barclay Plager
Dean Prentice - Syd Howe
Jacques Laperierre - Herb Gardiner
Coach: Dick Irvin Sr.
Assistant Coach: Eddie Gerard
Captain: Eddie Gerard
Assistant Captains: Doug Harvey, Doug Gilmour
Vladimir Krutov-Doug Gilmour-Rick Middleton
Jack Walker-Dave Keon-Shane Doan
Keith Tkachuk-Jeremy Roenick-Tony Amonte
Lynn Patrick-Dick Irvin Sr.-Corey Perry
Ex: Corb Denneny, Fred Lake
Doug Harvey-Glen Harmon
Eddie Gerard-Ott Heller
Ed Van Impe-Reijo Ruotsalainen
Ex: Fred Lake, Jack Evans
(Keon will get spot PP duty as well)
PK1: Keon- Walker
PK3: Amonte-Doan (will not take face offs ever)
Defensemen: PK1: Harvey-Heller
PK2: Gerard-Van Impe
Playoff TOI totals (Regular season ones will be a little more evened out)
Hopefully I'll get a chance to post some bios with my team. There are a few that I did already (particularly the ones on Benedict, Harmon, and Walker are good), but I know tomorrow night and Tuesday particularly will be devoted to doing a few. Also, I have a feeling there are a couple it'll be tough for me to improve upon, such as Fred Lake and Charlie Hodge, so I may just link those to my guy. Particularly, I'm going to try to do one on Eddie Gerard, Ott Heller, Dave Keon, Lynn Patrick and Reijo Ruotsalainen.
Tkachuk-Roenick-Amonte is a more dangerous looking line offensively than Walker-Keon-Doan!
holmstrom should never never play PK, even if it were AA draft.
holmstrom is weak defensively, slow and never used on PK. he is a PP specialist who has been carried by datsyuk and sometimes zetterberg for most of the 2nd half of his careeer. also not a good player at ES.
I also fairly certain that Keon is better defensively than Gilmour.
By the way, MB, with those two it's a matter of degrees and fits. Both are awesome two way players.
Pretty much I wanted to be able to create scoring from all four lines, and I think the best way to do that I by having two good two-way guys at the top two centers.
Still, it's a two-way top 6 that isn't going to scare anyone with their offensive skills but then they are supported by a deadly 3rd line. You've got an interesting team.
My goal is to do a full assassination of everyone in my division, and offer at least a few comments on everyone that has linked bios for their roster post in here.
Coach: Peter Laviolette
Assistant coach: Dave Tippett
Kevin Stevens - Mario Lemieux (C) - Sergei Makarov
Michel Goulet - Joe Thornton - Joe Mullen
Brenden Morrow - Doug Risebrough - Terry O'Reilly
Ryan Smyth (A) - Murray Oliver - Kevin Dineen
Ryan Walter, Kent Nilsson
Guy Lapointe (A) - Marcel Pronovost
Pat Stapleton - Ted Harris
Bert Corbeau - Rob Ramage
PP1: Lapointe - Stapleton - Stevens - Lemieux - Makarov
PP2: Pronovost - Ramage - Goulet - Thornton - Smyth
PK1: Pronovost - Harris - Oliver - Risebrough
PK2: Lapointe - Ramage - Lemieux - Morrow
- Let's begin with good news, you have the best coach in this thing, I have no idea what role has Bylsma and what does he add, I don't think he is needed.
- Broda is one of the best second tier goaltenders, still don't understand why do you need two backups, especially since neither is a good one in the ATD sense
- You have a lot of talent on your first line, IMO too much - i don't see Hull and Bentley working together, they can share with the second line, since it depends on Sittler alone.
- Your Bottom 6 is a mess. Which role has your third line? You have a defencive minded centre, a offencive minded soft left wing and not really minded Henderson
- Your 4th line is worse. You have one of the best defencive forwards with PP-specialist who sucks in his own zone and Hartnell... well ... i guess he has ATD-worthy hair.
- i would try something like this with your forwards:
Hull-Sittler-Sloanor since you can put my grandmother on Bobby Hull's wing and that line would still produce:
this way you have two strong very balanced scoring lines, a two-way line, and a checking line that doesn't suck.
- Well, your defence isn't that easy to fix. Brewer is lower end first pairing defenceman. Sologubov is 3rd pairing defenceman. And they don't work together. The biggest problem is, that don't have anybody capable of playing on the fisrt pairing besides Brewer. Rafalski is not that good, and it would make your first pairing tiny. Maybe Huddy?
- Well the second pairing is ok, as it is, but if you put Huddy on your first pairing you have nobody to play with Rafalski.
- Persson is PP-specialist. Barilko is a hero, but doesn't belongs there. With Iafrate in lineup thing doesn't get any better.
- Your special teams are a mess too. Your top PP QB (Persson) isn't even on your 2nd PP-unit. Holmström isn't on any PP-unit. And you have two PP-specialists on your top PK-unit. Your second PK-unit is actually ok. This units can be at least decent if you fix them.
I like this lineup a lot better.
Vecens, just noticed you have Rick Middleton with 21.5 minutes, basically superstar ice time. I can't see it working
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