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-   -   Anti-fighting fans how do you like this idea? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1140843)

drs151 03-21-2012 01:19 AM

Anti-fighting fans how do you like this idea?
 
If you couldnt get you're way about removing fighting from hockey would this be a good substitute?

I know the whole head trauma argument is a good case made by you fans. So heres what I prupose

1. A limit on how many fights you can have in a season before heavy suspensions and fines. I dont know what a good number would be but lets say 10.

2. If you suffer a concussion in a fight you are not aloud to fight for the rest of the season. If the players concussion is so bad that it goes longer than a year then obviously until you are cleared to play. This would prevent doctors from clearing lesser end players quicker. Also have some independant doctors diagnose the players (I dont know if this is done or not already)


I think this would force teams to make sure they get the best 3rd and 4th line players available with the fear of their players not being able to fight after a concussion. I guess they could get an AHLer or something after a players concussion so maybe only original NHL rosters are aloud to fight unless they are brining up players that have a certain high degree of offensive production (then obviously they wouldnt be goons and not big fighters anyways)

All of these circumstances would then get rid of the so called goons which should lower staged fights which I believe many people hate anyways.


So this post can be made for anyone really not just anti fighters. I am very aware more and more people are viewing fighting differently. Surely there has to be a common ground?

I realize im probably going to get ripped apart on this as Im not very good at coming up with new ideas for the game. So be nice. Its just something Ive been thinking about that a middle ground should beable to satisfy the large majority of the fans.

bleedblue1223 03-21-2012 01:21 AM

If you don't like fighting in hockey, we don't want you as a fan anyway. Go enjoy basketball.

Mayor Bee 03-21-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 46452797)
If you couldnt get you're way about removing fighting from hockey would this be a good substitute?

I know the whole head trauma argument is a good case made by you fans. So heres what I prupose

1. A limit on how many fights you can have in a season before heavy suspensions and fines. I dont know what a good number would be but lets say 10.

2. If you suffer a concussion in a fight you are not aloud to fight for the rest of the season. If the players concussion is so bad that it goes longer than a year then obviously until you are cleared to play. This would prevent doctors from clearing lesser end players quicker. Also have some independant doctors diagnose the players (I dont know if this is done or not already)


I think this would force teams to make sure they get the best 3rd and 4th line players available with the fear of their players not being able to fight after a concussion. I guess they could get an AHLer or something after a players concussion so maybe only original NHL rosters are aloud to fight unless they are brining up players that have a certain high degree of offensive production (then obviously they wouldnt be goons and not big fighters anyways)

All of these circumstances would then get rid of the so called goons which should lower staged fights which I believe many people hate anyways.


So this post can be made for anyone really not just anti fighters. I am very aware more and more people are viewing fighting differently. Surely there has to be a common ground?

I realize im probably going to get ripped apart on this as Im not very good at coming up with new ideas for the game. So be nice. Its just something Ive been thinking about that a middle ground should beable to satisfy the large majority of the fans.

1) I don't like the idea of an arbitrary cap on stuff like this. For that matter, I don't like arbitrary numbers at all.

2) The law of unintended consequences means that players will simply lie about having symptoms. It's bad enough that there are already guys who admit to botching their concussion baseline tests so that an actual neurological deficit won't trigger a red flag.

3) The only way to purge fighting would be to hand out game misconducts for what is determined to be a staged fight, with escalating punishments from there. The instigator would have to go from a minor to a major and a game misconduct, and would be waived only in the event of an immediate response to a cheap shot. Nothing next game, nothing next period, nothing next shift.

That removes staged fights, that removes fighting for the sake of fighting, and it keeps the ability to self-police without fear of getting the boot.

Wooty 03-21-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 46452861)
If you don't like fighting in hockey, we don't want you as a fan anyway. Go enjoy basketball.

Who are you representing?

Mayor Bee 03-21-2012 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 46452861)
If you don't like fighting in hockey, we don't want you as a fan anyway. Go enjoy basketball.

Nah, I think I'll just watch playoff hockey. All of the intensity, none of the fighting.

You shut the games off before the playoffs, right? It's not like hockey can possibly exist without fighting.

bleedblue1223 03-21-2012 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooty (Post 46452931)
Who are you representing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayor Bee (Post 46453059)
Nah, I think I'll just watch playoff hockey. All of the intensity, none of the fighting.

You shut the games off before the playoffs, right? It's not like hockey can possibly exist without fighting.

Didn't mean it like that. Just saying, fighting won't and shouldn't be banned. Nothing is better than playoff hockey, but fighting will always have a place in this league IMO.

Shanahanigans 03-21-2012 01:34 AM

The line brawl between the Rangers and Devils got me pumped up yesterday, and pretty much every hockey fan. Loved it, it was bad blood between rivalries. Every goal was that much better during that game, every save, every hit, because you could feel emotion behind it. Taking fighting out of the game, or heavily fining it is like a worse version of the instigator rule. Allowing rats to run around without having to answer for their actions.

FlashyG 03-21-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 46453093)
Didn't mean it like that. Just saying, fighting won't and shouldn't be banned. Nothing is better than playoff hockey, but fighting will always have a place in this league IMO.

I like fighting, but its on its way out.

It wont be anytime soon, but once Junior bans it, (the OHL is already preparing to) the NHL wont be too far behind.

Fights will still happen, but they will result in getting tossed instead of 5 min and will be less frequent.

Wooty 03-21-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight414 (Post 46453103)
The line brawl between the Rangers and Devils got me pumped up yesterday, and pretty much every hockey fan. Loved it, it was bad blood between rivalries. Every goal was that much better during that game, every save, every hit, because you could feel emotion behind it. Taking fighting out of the game, or heavily fining it is like a worse version of the instigator rule. Allowing rats to run around without having to answer for their actions.

You could also penalize the rats for their actions (assuming they are illegal)

Papaspud 03-21-2012 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayor Bee (Post 46453059)
Nah, I think I'll just watch playoff hockey. All of the intensity, none of the fighting.

You shut the games off before the playoffs, right? It's not like hockey can possibly exist without fighting.

Fights used to happen with regularity during the Play-offs. The "Instigator" Rule has put a stop to most of that. And THAT has caused problems in and of itself. Facewashes? Just take it. Cheapshot? Just accept it.
If you drop the gloves, and the deserving miscreant doesn't...you sit. Sad state of affairs

FlashyG 03-21-2012 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight414 (Post 46453103)
The line brawl between the Rangers and Devils got me pumped up yesterday, and pretty much every hockey fan. Loved it, it was bad blood between rivalries. Every goal was that much better during that game, every save, every hit, because you could feel emotion behind it. Taking fighting out of the game, or heavily fining it is like a worse version of the instigator rule. Allowing rats to run around without having to answer for their actions.

The Fans liked it but the GM's didn't, there is already talk of putting in a rule similar to the instigator in the last 5 minute rule where all the combatants who fight will get a game misconduct and the coach fined. (for fights on the opening faceoff now)

drs151 03-21-2012 01:47 AM

just for the record I love fighting in hockey. Those fights the other night pumped me up. If it were up to me fighting would never leave. But I have the feeling the popularity of fighting is starting to trend the other way in hockey. I just dont want to see it go completely.

But yah I think the fighting in hockey should just stay the way it always has. I actually got in a fight 2 games ago. We are in the finals right now.

Papaspud 03-21-2012 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 46453369)
just for the record I love fighting in hockey. Those fights the other night pumped me up. If it were up to me fighting would never leave. But I have the feeling the popularity of fighting is starting to trend the other way in hockey. I just dont want to see it go completely.

But yah I think the fighting in hockey should just stay the way it always has. I actually got in a fight 2 games ago. We are in the finals right now.

Good for you. Good luck in your Play-offs!

drs151 03-21-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papaspud (Post 46453445)
Good for you. Good luck in your Play-offs!

Down 3-0 when we finished first in the league. Feelsbadman.

The Zetterberg Era 03-21-2012 01:52 AM

I think unfortunately fighting will eventually just be a game misconduct. The writing is on the wall, it won't survive the pc culture we live in now. There will still be instances where fights happen, but it will just be much more in line with other sports where it is an immediate ejection.

It is interesting with all of the player polls on this subject still showing a heavy support for fighting. Wouldn't the NHLPA have to agree to ban this? They have to consent to rules changes and even realignment. If a staggering number is against it wouldn't this be next to impossible without a death (I really hope not) or something to galvanize this sort of response?

ean 03-21-2012 01:55 AM

There is a difference between players who fight as part of their game and players who fight because it is their only game.

Staged fights occur because the Bissonnettes, Janssens, and Scotts of the league have literally no other use. These guys are not protecting anyone on their team. The (former) Matt Cookes will run your best player and then hide behind the linesmen and the instigator rule.

In 5 years most of the players involved in this line brawl (and their counterparts from other teams) will not even be in the league and therefore 95% of the staged fights will be gone.

Playerwinner 03-21-2012 02:59 AM

There needs to be something done about these staged fights that happen before the game has even started, both teams starting there 4th liners, or a bottom D-men to take the opening faceoff it just looks bad, not having teams start these 1st line.

tututooter21 03-21-2012 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 46452797)
If you couldnt get you're way about removing fighting from hockey would this be a good substitute?

I know the whole head trauma argument is a good case made by you fans. So heres what I prupose

1. A limit on how many fights you can have in a season before heavy suspensions and fines. I dont know what a good number would be but lets say 10.

2. If you suffer a concussion in a fight you are not aloud to fight for the rest of the season. If the players concussion is so bad that it goes longer than a year then obviously until you are cleared to play. This would prevent doctors from clearing lesser end players quicker. Also have some independant doctors diagnose the players (I dont know if this is done or not already)


I think this would force teams to make sure they get the best 3rd and 4th line players available with the fear of their players not being able to fight after a concussion. I guess they could get an AHLer or something after a players concussion so maybe only original NHL rosters are aloud to fight unless they are brining up players that have a certain high degree of offensive production (then obviously they wouldnt be goons and not big fighters anyways)

All of these circumstances would then get rid of the so called goons which should lower staged fights which I believe many people hate anyways.


So this post can be made for anyone really not just anti fighters. I am very aware more and more people are viewing fighting differently. Surely there has to be a common ground?

I realize im probably going to get ripped apart on this as Im not very good at coming up with new ideas for the game. So be nice. Its just something Ive been thinking about that a middle ground should beable to satisfy the large majority of the fans.

Noo way that would make players want to hide there concussions which would be a big no-no

Oilersfanneedsdrink 03-21-2012 04:27 AM

I don't get it, the staged fight is so dated and predictable, you just roll your eyes and go, here we go again, gotta waste 3 or 4 minutes watching 2 players play a game of ice dancing.

The ones that drive me crazy are the ones that happen behind a play and the goons don't even pay attention to the fact that their team is in the offensive zone and they had a chance to score. Am i the only one that gets annoyed by that?

There are enough fighting sports, i can watch boxing, i can watch MMA. I don't need to turn on my tv and see people fighting with skates on. How many fights are actually entertaining, or require any skill besides jersey pulling, fighting with a helmet or full visor on?

The game is stuck in 1970, no wonder it sucks at gaining viewership. Evolve or die. Hockey is seen as bush league in some circles because of the goon tactics that happen behind the play, the cheap shots and all the fake macho bravado. The NHL needs full clarification on the rules and not to let players get away with head shots and hitting from behind. You don't need a fighter to protect a player, you need the league to do it.

Let me ask you, do you think someone that gives another player a cheap shot and decides to drop his gloves and fight, do you really believe that after 2 minutes of dry humping that once the refs pull them off each other that the cheap shot artist player is going to be afraid to try again?

jimmythescot 03-21-2012 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashyG (Post 46453335)
The Fans liked it but the GM's didn't, there is already talk of putting in a rule similar to the instigator in the last 5 minute rule where all the combatants who fight will get a game misconduct and the coach fined. (for fights on the opening faceoff now)

I thought that had been in place for a few years.

I'm okay with fighting in the heat of the moment, but the staged ones seem really dumb. Not sure how you'd penalise that without opening a can of worms.

Oilersfanneedsdrink 03-21-2012 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmythescot (Post 46455189)
I thought that had been in place for a few years.

I'm okay with fighting in the heat of the moment, but the staged ones seem really dumb. Not sure how you'd penalise that without opening a can of worms.

Easy, the ones that are done during a faceoff are clearly staged. That's one type of fighting you could eliminate. Or players that follow each other around for a minute or so talking up a storm and deciding to fight, that one would be trickier though.

jimmythescot 03-21-2012 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink (Post 46455217)
Easy, the ones that are done during a faceoff are clearly staged. That's one type of fighting you could eliminate. Or players that follow each other around for a minute or so talking up a storm and deciding to fight, that one would be trickier though.

Yeah, they'd just whisper "Meet you in the corner" at the faceoff instead of dropping their gloves there.

SirKillalot 03-21-2012 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playerwinner (Post 46454355)
There needs to be something done about these staged fights that happen before the game has even started, both teams starting there 4th liners, or a bottom D-men to take the opening faceoff it just looks bad, not having teams start these 1st line.

If there is bad blood before the game, that's actually a "good" idea to start the game. As long as the whole game don't become a fight-fest for no other apparent reason.

I hate fights who don't have reasons to happen. Then the fight itself is pointless.

Corncob 03-21-2012 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 46452797)
If you suffer a concussion in a fight you are not aloud to fight for the rest of the season. If the players concussion is so bad that it goes longer than a year then obviously until you are cleared to play. This would prevent doctors from clearing lesser end players quicker. Also have some independant doctors diagnose the players (I dont know if this is done or not already)

This is a horrific idea and not thought through at all.

Firstly, why would a concussion suffered during a fight be treated differently to any other concussion?

Secondly, what does 'not allowed to fight' mean? How is this regulated? Lets say our 'not allowed to fight player' is playing Boston and recklessly runs into Tim Thomas. Adam Mcquaid decides to give him a good punching. So he's not allowed to punch back?

Kimota 03-21-2012 06:30 AM

If I had my way, there would be only 2 minutes for fighting and no game misconduct. Fighting would be considered to be a roughing penalty. Wich it is really.


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