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-   -   edmonton / washington proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=114114)

andora 11-17-2004 04:57 PM

edmonton / washington proposal
 
first off, this is contingent on a few things. first, that hockey will start next year, not this year, and as well, it is only if washington does have plans to re-sign dainius zubrus..

to washington - alexei semenov
to edmonton - brian sutherby

reasoning for edmonton - we all know lowe really likes sutherby, and his style of play would be loved in edmonton. sutherby does have the potential (imo) to become a leader on/off ice in the same way messier was in edmonton (not the same of course but same idea). sutherby has good size, and can play all types of hockey. as well, based on my idea of hockey starting up next year, i believe woywitka would be ready to step in, as well as doug lynch perhaps, so the oilers DO have the depth to make the trade

reasoning for washington - like i said, it has to be if they are planning on re-signing dainius zubrus. zubrus as we know can be effective two way on a top two line, and then with ovechkin coming in, obviously he will play a top line role. then washington has a guy like halpern, a perfect third line center, one of the best, and lastly several guys that can center that fourth line (imo whitfield is that guy). now, as far as defense, there are questions outside eminger and witt. yonkman and cutta are questions, and some of the other prospects won't be ready. morrisonn is also still developing and could be ready, boumedienne will obviously have a look, however semenov has played in the nhl the past two seasons and has a load of potential at both ends of the rink.


thoughts ? remember this is based on zubrus being re-signed and hockey starting next year

thestonedkoala 11-17-2004 04:59 PM

I think it's okay, I don't know if either team would do it though.

Boondock Saint 11-17-2004 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
first off, this is contingent on a few things. first, that hockey will start next year, not this year, and as well, it is only if washington does have plans to re-sign dainius zubrus..

to washington - alexei semenov
to edmonton - brian sutherby

reasoning for edmonton - we all know lowe really likes sutherby, and his style of play would be loved in edmonton. sutherby does have the potential (imo) to become a leader on/off ice in the same way messier was in edmonton (not the same of course but same idea). sutherby has good size, and can play all types of hockey. as well, based on my idea of hockey starting up next year, i believe woywitka would be ready to step in, as well as doug lynch perhaps, so the oilers DO have the depth to make the trade

reasoning for washington - like i said, it has to be if they are planning on re-signing dainius zubrus. zubrus as we know can be effective two way on a top two line, and then with ovechkin coming in, obviously he will play a top line role. then washington has a guy like halpern, a perfect third line center, one of the best, and lastly several guys that can center that fourth line (imo whitfield is that guy). now, as far as defense, there are questions outside eminger and witt. yonkman and cutta are questions, and some of the other prospects won't be ready. morrisonn is also still developing and could be ready, boumedienne will obviously have a look, however semenov has played in the nhl the past two seasons and has a load of potential at both ends of the rink.


thoughts ? remember this is based on zubrus being re-signed and hockey starting next year

A possibility from an Edmonton standpoint, but from what I know of Sutherby, he would provide much the same as our own Jarret Stoll.

That said, I feel that our defensive depth allows us to make this deal.

Would definitely help shore up our depth at center, especially if Reasoner keeps having problems with his knee.

I.am.ca 11-17-2004 05:49 PM

Reasoner is a lost cause.

I like Sutherby, i think he would do well in Edmonton. What would Edmonton's line up look like if Sutherby was added??

Marshall 11-17-2004 05:52 PM

Caps' wouldn't do it, but not because of any value imbalance. The Caps have Sutherby tagged as a future captain, and have a lot of confidence in him. McPhee loves him as a player. I don't think the Caps are interested in moving Sutherby at all.

Value-wise, it's pretty even.

Oiltalk 11-17-2004 06:05 PM

I can't see why Lowe would do it. Schremp, Pouliot, York, Horcoff, Stoll, Niinimaki are all young. One of the prospects must bust, but the Oilers are still looking pretty decent down the middle for the time being.

Semenov has a huge frame, and because of it has quite a bit of potential if he ever develops a mean streak to his game. To me he's a keeper, and has the highest potential out of anybody both currently or not yet on the Oilers blueline, but of course it's just my opinion.

I see Stoll as the future captain for the Oilers.

PSUhockey34 11-17-2004 06:07 PM

Seems like a fair deal to me

There are still alot of questions on the blueline outside of Eminger and Morrisonn so I wouldnt be suprised to see Semenov step into the top 4 right away...Yonkman has been injury plagued, Cutta has been inconsistent and the rest of the dmen are atleast 2 or 3 years away from being in the NHL fulltime (not saying the caps wont rush them in)...Witt might walk after the final year in his contract and both Doig and Boomer are top 4 guys by defualt

Boondock Saint 11-17-2004 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oiltalk
I can't see why Lowe would do it. Schremp, Pouliot, York, Horcoff, Stoll, Niinimaki are all young. One of the prospects must bust, but the Oilers are still looking pretty decent down the middle for the time being.
Semenov has a huge frame, and because of it has quite a bit of potential if he ever develops a mean streak to his game. To me he's a keeper, and has the highest potential out of anybody both currently or not yet on the Oilers blueline, but of course it's just my opinion.

I see Stoll as the future captain for the Oilers.

No, we're not.

We just lost Nedved.

As it stands now we have York, Horcoff, Stoll, Reasoner and Bishai as centers with NHL experience. After that we have Schremp, Pouliot, and some other prospects.

We might be OK long-term with that group, but for the moment, we are desperate for some help.

York, Horcoff, Stoll, Reasoner (with injury questions) and Bishai aren't gonna take us anywhere and you can't count on either Pouliot or Schremp to come and produce.

The Oilers are NOT looking good down the middle for the time being.

Oiltalk 11-17-2004 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
No, we're not.

We just lost Nedved.

As it stands now we have York, Horcoff, Stoll, Reasoner and Bishai as centers with NHL experience. After that we have Schremp, Pouliot, and some other prospects.

We might be OK long-term with that group, but for the moment, we are desperate for some help.

York, Horcoff, Stoll, Reasoner (with injury questions) and Bishai aren't gonna take us anywhere and you can't count on either Pouliot or Schremp to come and produce.

The Oilers are NOT looking good down the middle for the time being.

I meant in terms of what Sutherby would bring to the team...He wouldn't bring anything the other guys aren't bringing to the table already, and sure wouldn't be that #1 center we need, so why go for him?

Bring Back Bucky 11-17-2004 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.am.ca
Reasoner is a lost cause.

I like Sutherby, i think he would do well in Edmonton. What would Edmonton's line up look like if Sutherby was added??

Are you referring to his knee??

andora 11-17-2004 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall
Caps' wouldn't do it, but not because of any value imbalance. The Caps have Sutherby tagged as a future captain, and have a lot of confidence in him. McPhee loves him as a player. I don't think the Caps are interested in moving Sutherby at all.

Value-wise, it's pretty even.

very true

however as the washington gm, i would be expecting halpern to remain a capital for the rest of his career and become the future captain. as well, i'd be extremely high on boyd gordon developing into a solid leader that would play a third line checking type role, similar to what maltby provides in detroit...

i completely understand your sentiments though, when i made this trade up, from each side it's a player i wouldn't want to give up at all, however each player is a player i'd love to receive..

Wolfpack 11-17-2004 10:31 PM

BoonDock Saint is bang on - if the Oilers are going to trade for a centreman it's going to be a player with more experience who can step into one of the top two spots right now. I like Sutherby a lot, but he seems to be in the mold of a Jarret Stoll, as someone mentioned, and we've got a lot of those types of players developing in the system right now.

I'm not the biggest Semenov fan, but he could still develop into a force like he was in Junior. I think that if Lowe was serious about improving this team he would package Semenov with another player and go out and get a big scoring centreman.

On another note, it's nice to see a trade proposal that obviously had some thought put into it, as for once it isn't getting torn to shreds. Good discussion here.

:handclap:

Atlas 11-18-2004 01:24 AM

It looks like Sutherby is one of those guys that's gonna get every chance to show what he do before he gets shipped out. When healthy, Sutherby showed flashes of being a dominant hockey player. He's big and fast and is all over the ice. He creates offense, not with his skill, but with his hard work.

Potential captain, 3rd/2nd line center, playoff warrior.

Chimaera 11-18-2004 02:37 AM

I don't think that McPhee pulls the trigger on this one. He's a WHL guy through and through.


Suts has contributed a lot for the AHL team from what I've read, and from watching the prospect camp. He led a few drills and really is taking a leadership role (from what some have said). The injury bug has hurt him quite a bit, but when healthy, he can be a solid character forward the Caps will need to build around.

He's the type of guy that is going to do the dirty work to get the job done, if he ever gets here. He'll work wonders on a young team that's going to need some leadership here shortly.

And although I do think Halpern will get some shot at being Captain, I really don't think it's his to take. This team right now is Kolzig's period. If a goalie could wear the C, he would. And Halpern is a character guy who loves the team, but... he's not as outspoken as I think you need to be. There needs to be someone who'll throw around some chairs and make some noise if there's a problem.

Halpern kinda sat through some of the Dr. Jagr garbage.

I don't think Sutherby will be that type of quiet let his play do the talking kinda guy. Because he doesn't seem to take crap from people. Hey, he's also gotten a few KO's here and there fight wise... so he's definitely not afraid of that. Even if he isn't the best fighter.

japanman 11-18-2004 03:49 AM

this deal would be very fair asfar as trade value but I dont think it would ever happen. It might fit the needs of the Caps but not the oilers. The oilers are in desperate need of a first/second line center. A package with Seminov being the main part of it to the Fla. Panthers for one of Jokenen or Weis is more what the oilers need.

txpd 11-18-2004 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall
Caps' wouldn't do it, but not because of any value imbalance. The Caps have Sutherby tagged as a future captain, and have a lot of confidence in him. McPhee loves him as a player. I don't think the Caps are interested in moving Sutherby at all.

Value-wise, it's pretty even.

I think the future captain tag was pre-Ovechkin. I see Ovechkin having already replaced Sutherby in that role. I could see the Caps doing that deal.

Drake1588 11-18-2004 09:08 AM

An interesting proposal, and one which is feasible. McPhee and Lowe both at one time were extremely high on Sutherby, to the extent that Lowe submitted a worthy offer and McPhee turned him down, whatever the particulars of the packages.

Whether both are of the same mind right now is a good question, and of central relevance to this question. My sense is that with a center situation buoyed by the acquisition of Aulin and Klepis in March 2004 trades, McPhee would consider a Sutherby trade if it could land a solid, NHL-ready young defenseman with size to spare. Semenov is such a player, so I think an offer like that would give him reason for pause.

Would Edmonton do this deal? I don't know. If defensive depth is deemed to be pretty strong, then maybe, but Semenov should develop gradually into a pretty effective player. If I'm Edmonton I think I value Semenov over Sutherby, and I say that as someone who thinks Sutherby will be a good NHL player.

David Draiman 11-18-2004 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
first off, this is contingent on a few things. first, that hockey will start next year, not this year, and as well, it is only if washington does have plans to re-sign dainius zubrus..

to washington - alexei semenov
to edmonton - brian sutherby

reasoning for edmonton - we all know lowe really likes sutherby, and his style of play would be loved in edmonton. sutherby does have the potential (imo) to become a leader on/off ice in the same way messier was in edmonton (not the same of course but same idea). sutherby has good size, and can play all types of hockey. as well, based on my idea of hockey starting up next year, i believe woywitka would be ready to step in, as well as doug lynch perhaps, so the oilers DO have the depth to make the trade

reasoning for washington - like i said, it has to be if they are planning on re-signing dainius zubrus. zubrus as we know can be effective two way on a top two line, and then with ovechkin coming in, obviously he will play a top line role. then washington has a guy like halpern, a perfect third line center, one of the best, and lastly several guys that can center that fourth line (imo whitfield is that guy). now, as far as defense, there are questions outside eminger and witt. yonkman and cutta are questions, and some of the other prospects won't be ready. morrisonn is also still developing and could be ready, boumedienne will obviously have a look, however semenov has played in the nhl the past two seasons and has a load of potential at both ends of the rink.


thoughts ? remember this is based on zubrus being re-signed and hockey starting next year

I think it's a fairly good idea actually. It seems it's pretty hard to make a good and reasonable proposal but this one makes some sense. You're right, Lowe likes Sutherby (no doubt he sees some Mark Messier in him) and probably would like to get him. Not to mention he has good size, something the Oilers lack. I guess I just reiterated everything you just said, but it definitely makes sense for the Oilers to do it, especially if Woywitka and Lynch are ready, as you said.

The Caps might not want to do it to be honest, and I think this proposal might not happen but they could use a defenseman like Semenov with some NHL experience. Besides, he's still quite young and cheap, so he fits well into their team scheme. But whether they'd want to move Sutherby for him is slightly doubtful in my mind.

Captain Conservative 11-18-2004 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
first off, this is contingent on a few things. first, that hockey will start next year, not this year, and as well, it is only if washington does have plans to re-sign dainius zubrus..

to washington - alexei semenov
to edmonton - brian sutherby

reasoning for edmonton - we all know lowe really likes sutherby, and his style of play would be loved in edmonton. sutherby does have the potential (imo) to become a leader on/off ice in the same way messier was in edmonton (not the same of course but same idea). sutherby has good size, and can play all types of hockey. as well, based on my idea of hockey starting up next year, i believe woywitka would be ready to step in, as well as doug lynch perhaps, so the oilers DO have the depth to make the trade

reasoning for washington - like i said, it has to be if they are planning on re-signing dainius zubrus. zubrus as we know can be effective two way on a top two line, and then with ovechkin coming in, obviously he will play a top line role. then washington has a guy like halpern, a perfect third line center, one of the best, and lastly several guys that can center that fourth line (imo whitfield is that guy). now, as far as defense, there are questions outside eminger and witt. yonkman and cutta are questions, and some of the other prospects won't be ready. morrisonn is also still developing and could be ready, boumedienne will obviously have a look, however semenov has played in the nhl the past two seasons and has a load of potential at both ends of the rink.


thoughts ? remember this is based on zubrus being re-signed and hockey starting next year


From a WSH standpoint, i'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Semenov is a fine young defenseman with a lot of upside.

Vyse64 11-18-2004 05:42 PM

I would try and package Semenov and others for a top 2 centremen that can in thst role now

the sutherby proposal value is good for both team though

Master Lok 11-18-2004 07:33 PM

The value might be fair, but if I was GM, Sutherby is not an answer to the Oilers needs. yes the Oilers need a centreman, but not a 3rd liner, solid checking and leadership type of guy. We have that in J. Stoll already. The OIlers need a SCORING Centreman. From what I understand Sutherby is a lot closer to Stoll than Spezza. So IMO, the Oilers shouldn't make this trade because it doesn't address the Oiler needs.

It Kills Me 11-18-2004 07:58 PM

value wise, its fair.. but I don't think its gonna happen.

nsoilfan 11-18-2004 09:38 PM

im not big on this trade from an oilers stand point. the oilers already have stoll and Sutherby is not much of an upgrade. it doesnt make any sence for a team with 3 third line centers(horcoff, stoll, reasoner) to go and trade for another.

andora 11-18-2004 11:29 PM

WOW, no arguments thus far, way to go boys :bow: ;)

borro 11-18-2004 11:49 PM

I wouldn't do this deal. The Caps issue is a need to add gritty guys to their forwards and d. Sutherby is one of the best guys they have like that. We have lots of guys with talent, Klepis, Johannson, Aulin, Fleischmann. No real need to add more of those kind.


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