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-   -   Prospect Info: Playoffs and Beyond (2012 Prospect Updates Continued) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1144333)

piqued 03-24-2012 06:49 PM

Playoffs and Beyond (2012 Prospect Updates Continued)
 
At least we'll still have Nico Sacchetti in the NCAA tournament.

BigG44 03-24-2012 06:50 PM

Dallas draft pick Nico Sacchetti pretty much ended Alex Chiasson's season. Boston had pushed to within a goal before Sacchetti scored to make it 5-3 and the game just got out of hand.

BU loses 7-3.

ReverendAlBundy 03-24-2012 08:26 PM

Damnit I fell asleep and missed the entire min-bu game. Shame for chiasson his seasons done, but now hopefully hell head to Austin.

BigG44 03-24-2012 10:09 PM

Here is an article talking about the hardships faced by BU in the 2nd half of the season:

Quote:

The junior assistant captain Alex Chiasson also chipped in. He took the majority of the top line’s face-offs while Connolly adjusted to the defensive responsibilities of a center. Chiasson also took his game to another level, recording 10 goals and 20 assists in the second half of the season after generating five goals and nine assists through the first half.
Quote:

“A lot of people might have written us off,” Coach Jack Parker said. “A lot of people might have thought we didn’t have enough. But they didn’t measure the heart of Chris Connolly or the heart of Chiasson or the heart of Kieran Millan. We’ve got enough to beat anybody as long as we are playing well.”

BigG44 03-24-2012 10:18 PM

This article has specific quotes from Chiasson:

Quote:

“Right now, it doesn’t matter what hockey means,” Chiasson said. “It’s about becoming a team and how guys grew up and how guys became leaders, how many character guys we had in this locker room. That’s what you have to look at.”
Quote:

“Nobody knows how hard it was for us to go through this stuff, and from a player’s perspective, it was probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever faced,” Chiasson said. “Everything that’s been going through, it was definitely hard for us to get in the public. This team is all about hockey and there’s a bunch of guys whose passion is hockey, just like mine.

“The only place where I could find myself comfortable was around the guys and at the rink.”

piqued 03-24-2012 11:15 PM

CHL
March 24th
vs.
Result 
GAPtsPIM+/-★★★Playoff Totals:GP
G
A
PtsPIM
Stransky
3-5 L
0
0
0
0
-1
  
2
0
1
1
2
Vance
3-5 L
0
1
1
0
-1
  
2
0
1
1
2
Theriau
5-3 W
0
0
0
0
0
  
2
0
1
1
0

Emerson Etem, Ducks prospect, had a 5 point night for Medicine Hat. Beast, beast, beast.

NCAA
March 24th
vs.
Result 
 G  A PtsPIM+/-★★★Playoff Totals:GP
 G 
 A 
PtsPIM
Chiasson
3-7 L
0
2
2
4
-3
  
5
3
6
9
12

Frozen Failure 03-24-2012 11:35 PM

Etem is the new Perry...

glovesave_35 03-25-2012 01:01 AM

I hate the thread nether region, the last and first pages of stickied threads. It must be done but it makes continuing a discussion point difficult.

Piqued, on the whole I agree with you about burning a year of a player's ELC. But on the other hand this team has missed the playoffs for the last few years. We can continue to build each year on the previous year but the difference between making or not making the playoffs in a given year is razor thin. In a year where it looks like the chances are good but not guaranteed, I think it's alright to favor the small picture rather than the big picture. I'm not advocating making a habit of doing this but with a special player one time I can live with him getting more money slightly sooner than expected.

The converse side of burning a year of an ELC without a player getting in a full year's worth of games is that it keeps his statistical output to a minimum when negotiations for contract #2 come around. It's possible that it could put the team in a position to sign him to a bridge contract rather than a longer term/higher dollar on that second contract.

Hull Fan 03-25-2012 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glovesave_35 (Post 46686343)
I hate the thread nether region, the last and first pages of stickied threads. It must be done but it makes continuing a discussion point difficult.

Piqued, on the whole I agree with you about burning a year of a player's ELC. But on the other hand this team has missed the playoffs for the last few years. We can continue to build each year on the previous year but the difference between making or not making the playoffs in a given year is razor thin. In a year where it looks like the chances are good but not guaranteed, I think it's alright to favor the small picture rather than the big picture. I'm not advocating making a habit of doing this but with a special player one time I can live with him getting more money slightly sooner than expected.

The converse side of burning a year of an ELC without a player getting in a full year's worth of games is that it keeps his statistical output to a minimum when negotiations for contract #2 come around. It's possible that it could put the team in a position to sign him to a bridge contract rather than a longer term/higher dollar on that second contract.

There's no guarantee he'd make the difference, certainly no way to tell how he acclimates to the speed of the nhl, his linemates or the defensive side of the game. If he struggles and slides to the 4th line or Gultzan scratches him because he's not one of the guys who's gotten them this far it's pointless.

He's not the difference between this team making the WCF or not and that versus burning a year for a maybe means they shouldn't do it. He's a bright part of their future assuming he continues as he has this year. One good 2nd half of college hockey does not a star make nor is he going to single-handedly get them in. It's a big bet for questionable odds. I can't believe G is even remotely seriously entertaining this notion.

glovesave_35 03-25-2012 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 46687635)
There's no guarantee he'd make the difference, certainly no way to tell how he acclimates to the speed of the nhl, his linemates or the defensive side of the game. If he struggles and slides to the 4th line or Gultzan scratches him because he's not one of the guys who's gotten them this far it's pointless.

He's not the difference between this team making the WCF or not and that versus burning a year for a maybe means they shouldn't do it. He's a bright part of their future assuming he continues as he has this year. One good 2nd half of college hockey does not a star make nor is he going to single-handedly get them in. It's a big bet for questionable odds. I can't believe G is even remotely seriously entertaining this notion.

You don't know this.

My whole position is centered around the fact that with the parity in the league and all of these goddamned 3 point games going around like an epidemic that the league is only going to continue to be more tightly packed as far as the playoff race is concerned. This being the case it means that you have to start balancing things a little differently. There can't be any more promise of doing everything the slow and methodical way, banking on the current crop of prospects to turn the NHL team into something drastically better than it currently is. If burning one year on one player's ELC years then in the big scheme of things it's not a monster gamble at all.

More to the point about this specific player; every scout and knowledgeable hockey person who has seen him play says that his defensive game is great. Given that his offensive game didn't suffer any because of his focusing on defense means that the kid is a complete player right now.

Also, I'm not even talking about adding him to get this team to the WCF. This team hasn't made it to the playoffs in three freaking years. I'm talking about giving this roster a shot in the arm to help ensure they make the playoffs. If he can help beyond that then great. The conference finals though should in no way, shape, or form be where the bar is set.

I'll throw one more thing into the mix, big picture. Let's say Chiasson, R. Smith, Oleksiak, and Nemeth all start their ELC's at the same time and are thus all up at the same time. That could potentially backfire if they are all due even semi-significant raises. Staggering their ELC start times isn't necessarily a bad thing. I also think my earlier point about giving Chiasson fewer games to accumulate points before negotiating his second contract is a valid one. Like I said, one prospect one time isn't the end of the world. I'm tired of banking on the future when the present is right in front of us. I have zero doubt in my mind that Benn would see to it that Chiasson's talents don't go to waste. Wouldn't it be nice if we gave our best player a fighting chance once the playoffs start?

(FTR I think there's like a 5% chance of all of this happening)

piqued 03-25-2012 10:22 AM

Chiasson is a reasonably complete player in college. There is no reason to believe he would be a complete player, right now, in the NHL.

It would be one thing if this team was still without an owner and was still limping along attendance-wise. I wouldn't do it then either, but I could at least see the argument. Not now that the franchise has stability once more. To me, making small picture moves is almost always synonymous with making bad moves. As Joe and Tom have said repeatedly, it's not about making the playoffs this year at all costs. It's about setting up the team to seriously compete down the road.

Having multiple ELCs expire at the same time is a minor inconvenience. Not all of those guys are going to light the world on fire. There's always (or should always) be enough flexibility in a given offseason to make room for retaining your own RFAs should you want to.

Faidh ar Rud Eigin 03-25-2012 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 46682771)
Etem is the new Perry...

We won't have to worry. Etem has questionable hockey sense, beautiful shot, but most of his goals are created by using his speed and just shooting it. That's not going to work in the NHL. Major league defensemen will just crush him and he'll have to get a lot more creative. Etem had a monster year but I wouldn't be shocked if he never makes the NHL.

Hull Fan 03-25-2012 11:41 AM

If I don't know that he won't help make the WCF you don't know he'll help make the playoffs. I'm saying it's a big gamble for an unknown quantity that could have poor ramifications for the club's future, a future in all probability with a much smaller cap next cba, than the possible positives he could bring. College doesn't necessarily equate to NHL.

Second, as far as ELC's, that's assuming guys stay healthy, are physically mature, mentally and emotionally ready, and GMJN brings them up at the same time. If those four guys are burning their ELC's that means there are huge changes going on on the big club and there's way more to be concerned about than their contract's possibly expiring at once.

One of these guys is probably going to take the Benn route and be up immediately next season. One of these guys is going to take the Glennie route. One of them is going to be blocked or kept down like Larsen was in favor of a vet in front of them. It's not all linear nor will the floodgates open unless house is cleaned in Dallas because they missed the playoffs. Besides again they've got to reach the cap floor and Larsen, Vincour, plus four additional guys on ELC's isn't going to get that done.

LatvianTwist 03-25-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie (Post 46693013)
We won't have to worry. Etem has questionable hockey sense, beautiful shot, but most of his goals are created by using his speed and just shooting it. That's not going to work in the NHL. Major league defensemen will just crush him and he'll have to get a lot more creative. Etem had a monster year but I wouldn't be shocked if he never makes the NHL.

Sounds kind of like Ryan but less complete. How good are his hands, though?

hairylikebear 03-25-2012 06:46 PM

Etem's a scoring winger. What does he need hockey sense for?

glovesave_35 03-25-2012 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piqued (Post 46692615)
Chiasson is a reasonably complete player in college. There is no reason to believe he would be a complete player, right now, in the NHL.

Hockey sense and defensive play are the two most transferrable hockey traits a player can have. Benn's excessively high hockey IQ is primarily what made him an NHL player at age 20, not his skills. I don't think it's too much to think that he would carry those over immediately. The scoring is the gamble, not the other stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piqued (Post 46692615)
Not now that the franchise has stability once more. To me, making small picture moves is almost always synonymous with making bad moves.

Huh? Making repeated small picture decisions is a bad way of going about things. Making the occasional isolated small picture move and working within the framework of the big picture are not mutually exclusive. I'm advocating one out of a myriad of decisions that will be made to fall into the small picture category - hardly a trend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piqued (Post 46692615)
As Joe and Tom have said repeatedly, it's not about making the playoffs this year at all costs.

Except their moves,or lack thereof, at the trade deadline speak louder than words. Given the circumstances at the time if Joe were truly thinking big picture over small picture then he would have trimmed the fat. He didn't and here we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 46694677)
If I don't know that he won't help make the WCF you don't know he'll help make the playoffs. I'm saying it's a big gamble for an unknown quantity that could have poor ramifications for the club's future, a future in all probability with a much smaller cap next cba, than the possible positives he could bring. College doesn't necessarily equate to NHL.

Second, as far as ELC's, that's assuming guys stay healthy, are physically mature, mentally and emotionally ready, and GMJN brings them up at the same time. If those four guys are burning their ELC's that means there are huge changes going on on the big club and there's way more to be concerned about than their contract's possibly expiring at once.

One of these guys is probably going to take the Benn route and be up immediately next season. One of these guys is going to take the Glennie route. One of them is going to be blocked or kept down like Larsen was in favor of a vet in front of them. It's not all linear nor will the floodgates open unless house is cleaned in Dallas because they missed the playoffs. Besides again they've got to reach the cap floor and Larsen, Vincour, plus four additional guys on ELC's isn't going to get that done.

Obviously, there are no guarantees with what you would get from Chiasson right away. And yeah, they probably won't all start burning their ELC years at the same time - that was a bit of an exaggeration to make a point.

I maintain my earliest position regarding burning a year of Chiasson's ELC prematurely. I have a hunch that the kid is the real deal. Give him three years to actually prove that instead of two and you give him the chance to drive his second contract significantly higher than if he only had two full seasons before it was time to negotiate his second contract. Burning a year on him now could be seen as an investment, albeit one that obviously puts me in the minority at this point in time. It could be the difference though, in him signing a bridge 2-year contract and a 4-year contract when his ELC expires.

I don't think it's a silly premise or in any way a remote possibility. There's more than one way of looking at the big picture.


Edit: I guess I should have read the Reilly Smith thread but I'm glad Nieuwendyk is thinking along the same lines, just a different player.

eartotheground 03-25-2012 10:16 PM

there's another possible impact here.. making the playoffs this year could have a significant impact on the stars ability to attract free agents next year... and that would make this more than a here and now move.

LatvianTwist 03-25-2012 10:24 PM

Winning the division would be an even bigger appeal. This FA season is pretty much perfect for us. We've got loads of cash and cap space, there's elite talent to be found there, and we're finally proving that we can be a competitive team. Add that to Parise's ties with the organization and I think we've got a great chance.

I feel so optimistic right now. :)

glovesave_35 03-25-2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 46728227)
Add that to Parise's ties with the organization and I think we've got a great chance.

I thought everyone was joking when they were saying he has connections to the organization. His dad played in Minnesota. If anything he has more ties to his home state. I don't think his dad playing for the North Stars means dick when it comes to this summer.

Bennrocks 03-25-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glovesave_35 (Post 46729893)
I thought everyone was joking when they were saying he has connections to the organization. His dad played in Minnesota. If anything he has more ties to his home state. I don't think his dad playing for the North Stars means dick when it comes to this summer.

i was joking, although it is conceivable but not really

LatvianTwist 03-25-2012 11:20 PM

I kind of figured, and I always thought that if any team would benefit from that it'd be Minny, but still, we've got a pretty good situation going for us.

piqued 03-26-2012 01:05 AM

CHL
March 26th
vs.
Result 
GAPtsPIM+/-★★★Playoff Totals:GP
G
A
PtsPIM
Ritchie
4-6 L
0
0
0
2
-2
  
3
1
2
3
4
Oleksiak
4-6 L
0
0
0
0
-2
  
3
0
0
0
0

ReverendAlBundy 03-26-2012 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glovesave_35 (Post 46729893)
I thought everyone was joking when they were saying he has connections to the organization. His dad played in Minnesota. If anything he has more ties to his home state. I don't think his dad playing for the North Stars means dick when it comes to this summer.

You'd have to assume also that as a Minnesota kid he watched mo when he was first in the league and more than likely continued to follow him after the move to Dallas. Couple that with no state tax, a city with really nice living conditions, family ties to the organization, and a good young core were currently building around somewhat, and I can definitely see him potentially coming here.

glovesave_35 03-26-2012 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecantscorefromthere (Post 46735833)
You'd have to assume also that as a Minnesota kid he watched mo when he was first in the league and more than likely continued to follow him after the move to Dallas. Couple that with no state tax, a city with really nice living conditions, family ties to the organization, and a good young core were currently building around somewhat, and I can definitely see him potentially coming here.

If this team can get into the playoffs and win a round or at least go 6 or 7 hard fought games in the first round then this thing will have the appearance of trending upward with most of the best talent sub 30 years old. That is good incentive. There are a lot of selling points, I just don't think Zach Parise considers himself as having ties to the organization. Do I think he was a big Modano fan? Probably. Do I think that holds any sway whatsoever on July 1st, especially given that Modano is old and retired? God no. I also don't think his dad is going to be sitting around singing the praises of a city he never played in or the second incarnation of the franchise he played for. If J.P. had played in Dallas that's one thing but he retired 13 years before the team moved. For the same reason it's silly that North Stars players have their numbers retired in Dallas it's silly to say that Zach Parise has ties to the Dallas Stars.

BigG44 03-26-2012 08:04 AM

I think the only article or blog post that has mentioned Dallas was going to pursue Parise and Suter should they become available was Mike Heika. He brought up some good points and seemed like a good enough idea. He even got me a bit excited.

However, I just got done watching Tom Gaglardi "In His Own Words", and again he emphasizes how ineffective big flashy moves have been in free agency. I don't think he or GMJN have eliminated the possibility of a big free agent. I just get the impression that isn't their focus though. The message from those is extremely consistent.


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