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-   -   Speculation: 2012 NHL Entry Draft: Wants and Needs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1145629)

PanthersHockey1 03-26-2012 01:45 PM

2012 NHL Entry Draft: Wants and Needs
 
Continuing from the Prospect Thread we are rapidly approaching the end of the regular season. It appears this team will be somewhere from 15-20 in draft order this summer.

Wanted to start a thread about what prospects look like good fits and address what this team lacks and what it needs in prospects moving forward.

Thoughts?

AwesomePanthers 03-26-2012 01:47 PM

Just gonna copy what I wrote in the prospect thread:

Our prospect-pool lacks nothing, maybe a PP QB and some goaltending depth. I'd love to get Griffin Reinhart (trade up or if he slides), or take a forward like Gaunce/Collberg/Aberg/Girgensons, who might be available at that spot.

And if we keep our 2nd round pick, I'd love to draft Subban.

PanthersHockey1 03-26-2012 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers (Post 46748905)
Just gonna copy what I wrote in the prospect thread:

Our prospect-pool lacks nothing, maybe a PP QB and some goaltending depth. I'd love to get Griffin Reinhart (trade up or if he slides), or take a forward like Gaunce/Collberg/Aberg/Girgensons, who might be available at that spot.

And if we keep our 2nd round pick, I'd love to draft Subban.

what about RW? It seems we have top end talent when it comes to center and LW.

Beezer 03-26-2012 06:28 PM

How about some offense???

Seriously though, when it's our turn to pick we should go with the best offensive player available on the board!

Another top end goalie prospect wouldn't hurt either, in either the 2nd or 3rd rd.(with a lot of high end forwards/defensman available in this draft we may be able to get a pretty good goalie just like when we got Markstom in the 2nd rd.)

Dread Clawz 03-26-2012 09:37 PM

If we win the division, we will pick around #25. If we don't win the division, we will pick #13-19. So there's a wide swath of players to look at. Once we know where we are going to be picking relatively, then I think we can more accurately look at the players that will be probably be available in our range.

I don't think we should draft based on need given where we are going to be picking. As AwesomePanthers said we really have no weaknesses in our prospect pool except for maybe very specific roles. I wouldn't take a goalie in the 1st, but any skater.

I thought I would post a couple mocks though from today on NHL.com

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=78957

The East scout has us picking Teuvo Teravainen. The West scout has us picking Hampus Lindholm. They are just going by points right now so we are picking #20.

luby3131 03-26-2012 10:37 PM

Definitely should look to add one of the high end puck moving defenseman in the 1st round. I've heard Slater Koekkoek, Morgan Reilly, Derrick Pouliot, and Olli Maataa thrown around. We can also opt for another forward, maybe a Zemgus Girgensons, Tom Wilson, Boo Nieves, or Stefan Matteau (who has ties to the Panthers).

At some point, we need to add another goaltending prospect as Sam Brittain is really the only non-pro in our prospect base. Knowing Dale Tallon, he'll be looking to add more NCAA bound players, who will be able to develop in college for four years.

One thing to keep an eye on is the Florida-born talent in this draft. Many will remember in 2010, Boca Raton's Andrew Yogan became the first Florida born and raised player ever drafted to the NHL, going 100th overall to the Rangers, one selection after the Panthers traded up to draft Finnish winger Joonas Donskoi. Fast forward to this year, Yogan scored 41 goals for Peterborough of the OHL and just signed his entry level deal with the Rangers. While Donskoi looks promising, the point is we missed on a chance to draft a player with local ties. The Panthers did take a flyer on Florida born defenseman R.J. Boyd in the 7th round, but he is unlikely to ever make it. In 2011, two Florida born players were selected- Brian Ferlin (Jacksonville, FL - drafred by Boston Bruins) and Collin Suellentrop (Plantation, FL - drafted by Philadelphia Flyers). 2012 is the best year for Florida born talent yet. Windsor's Brady Vail is a promising forward prospect from Palm City, FL who had 52 points this season. The USHL's Youngstown Phantoms have a small center named Austin Cangelosi on their team who has 53 points in 47 games this season. He is from Estero, FL and is committed to Boston College. Plymouth's Cody Payne could also draw some interest, as he's a big centerman from Weston, FL. Tri-City's Dylan Maller (Parkland, FL - committed to New Hampshire), Erie's Nathan Glass (Weston, FL) and Union's Shayne Gostisbehere (Margate, FL) are also draft eligible Florida born players playing at a major junior/college level. Just an interesting thing to keep an eye on late in the draft. Florida hockey is really on the rise.

Dread Clawz 03-26-2012 11:53 PM

I've heard Matteau is a nutcase and a dirty cheapshot artist. There is a thread devoted to him on the propects board that goes into it in detail. I think he could fall out of the 1st. I'm not particularly interested in him. Wilson is eww. I don't really see much potential there to be a top 6 forward. Obviously a project pick but I think it's very likely he becomes a 3rd liner or even 4th liner. I don't really see us going for him. It depends where we pick. If we pick in the late teens, I think it's more likely we pick a d-man. If we pick around #25, it's more likely we take a forward. But there will exceptions depending on who's left on the board. I really hope we could get Koekkoek if we pick a d-man. Rielly is probably out of our range. There are some in the scouting community who prefer Rielly over Dumba in the WHL.

I suspect we will add a tender at some point in this draft, between rounds 2-4. It's a nice deep class.

FinlandPanther 03-27-2012 12:01 AM

I would love to draft my boy Teravainen. We need an electric player like him to go with Huberdeau and the other big boys.

Boooooth10 03-27-2012 08:48 AM

What about Frk?

Brian Fogarty 03-27-2012 09:10 AM

I think what the Panthers will do really depends on where they end up picking. It seems likely at this point that they'll fall just beyond the Gaunce/Collberg/Aberg cluster and too early for the late first-round cluster of guys like Frk, Bussieres, etc. If that happens, they'll likely go for an offensive defenseman. Derrick Pouliot or Slater Koekkoek could be solid choices at around 18-20.

What gets really interesting, though, is that also slotted at around 20 right now are the goalies Malcolm Subban and Andrei Vasilevksi. I don't really see Tallon wanting to use a first to take a goalie, but there will be a lot of value to that pick if those guys are available when the Panthers go on the clock.

Brian Fogarty 03-27-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boooooth10 (Post 46795535)
What about Frk?

Frk will be interesting to watch in the draft. I think there's going to be a lot of discrepancy between the various scouting departments around the league. He will likely be there when the Panthers are up, so it will depend on what their staff has seen from him. He's got skills, no doubt. But do they like or dislike his work ethics?

luby3131 03-27-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fogarty (Post 46796301)
Frk will be interesting to watch in the draft. I think there's going to be a lot of discrepancy between the various scouting departments around the league. He will likely be there when the Panthers are up, so it will depend on what their staff has seen from him. He's got skills, no doubt. But do they like or dislike his work ethics?

I can see Frk being a Brandon Saad type situation. Highly regarded player that falls to the 2nd, but impresses in training camp.

I think a real question has to be where does Huberdeau start his career, at center or on the wing? We are going to need to find him some linemates...

IceManCat 03-27-2012 10:49 AM

I posted this in the other thread -
Nieves is my pick for this years draft, big strong kid Bjugstad 2.0 is headed to Michigan next year. I think hell be there when we pick

SoupyFIN 03-27-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers (Post 46748905)
And if we keep our 2nd round pick, I'd love to draft Subban.

I would much rather take a chance on Ullberg with our 6th if he is still there at that point. +If we do make the playoffs, I fully expect DT to give away this years 2nd instead of next year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules (Post 46774907)
I thought I would post a couple mocks though from today on NHL.com

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=78957

The East scout has us picking Teuvo Teravainen. The West scout has us picking Hampus Lindholm. They are just going by points right now so we are picking #20.

The european goalie list is quite hilarious, Ullberg is the only one to play with men and is ranked 7th out of 10. :laugh:

Brian Fogarty 03-27-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceManCat (Post 46799637)
I posted this in the other thread -
Nieves is my pick for this years draft, big strong kid Bjugstad 2.0 is headed to Michigan next year. I think hell be there when we pick

Right now, he's being slotted at about 35. That may come down by June, but if not, taking him at 20 might not be the best value for the pick.

AwesomePanthers 03-27-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boooooth10 (Post 46795535)
What about Frk?

I was extremely high on Frk after last season, and his been injured almost all the year. He got a bomb, and played PP QB for team Czech last WJC. He has slipped off the radar a bit it seems, and he might be to one-dimentional. I'm very uncertain about where he stands and what his pro-upside is. I wouldn't take him top20, as of now. But he could be a homerun or a bust, he seems like that type of player.

AwesomePanthers 03-27-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceManCat (Post 46799637)
I posted this in the other thread -
Nieves is my pick for this years draft, big strong kid Bjugstad 2.0 is headed to Michigan next year. I think hell be there when we pick

Doesn't seem like a top20, or even 1st round pick at this point.

Gudbranson44 03-27-2012 02:57 PM

For the first time in a long long time, I havent even bothered to look at what mmight be available at the draft this year! I cant even mention the projected top 10-15 prospects which by this time last year I knew by name, position, size, strenghts and weaknesses.. I plan to keep it that way and wont start paying attention until the season is over and we know more what might be available and where we draft

CoolburnIsGone 03-28-2012 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fogarty (Post 46796183)
I think what the Panthers will do really depends on where they end up picking. It seems likely at this point that they'll fall just beyond the Gaunce/Collberg/Aberg cluster and too early for the late first-round cluster of guys like Frk, Bussieres, etc. If that happens, they'll likely go for an offensive defenseman. Derrick Pouliot or Slater Koekkoek could be solid choices at around 18-20.

What gets really interesting, though, is that also slotted at around 20 right now are the goalies Malcolm Subban and Andrei Vasilevksi. I don't really see Tallon wanting to use a first to take a goalie, but there will be a lot of value to that pick if those guys are available when the Panthers go on the clock.

I've been thinking about this the last few days after we started talking about the draft. But the thing I see as a strong possibility is Tallon has those goalies there and bluffs I could totally see Tallon trading that pick to a GM desparately wanting one of the goalies for multiple picks. I'd say make Tampa nervous and try to grab their other 1st (Red Wings pick) and one of their later 2nd rounders (maybe even our own one back).

Otherwise, I agree that I'd be after an offensive d-man but I dont think Koekkoek falls into that category IIRC (though I like him all the same as an all-around type of guy). I think a team earlier than the 18-20 range takes a chance on him for some reason. Before he was injured, he was playing 30 mins a nite for the Petes and is an excellent skater. I'd include Matt Finn as a possibility too as he seems to have done well this yr as the PP QB for Guelph.

Brian Fogarty 03-28-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn (Post 46851545)
But the thing I see as a strong possibility is Tallon has those goalies there and bluffs I could totally see Tallon trading that pick to a GM desparately wanting one of the goalies for multiple picks.

My thoughts exactly.

J17 Vs Proclamation 03-28-2012 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fogarty (Post 46796183)
I think what the Panthers will do really depends on where they end up picking. It seems likely at this point that they'll fall just beyond the Gaunce/Collberg/Aberg cluster and too early for the late first-round cluster of guys like Frk, Bussieres, etc. If that happens, they'll likely go for an offensive defenseman. Derrick Pouliot or Slater Koekkoek could be solid choices at around 18-20.

What gets really interesting, though, is that also slotted at around 20 right now are the goalies Malcolm Subban and Andrei Vasilevksi. I don't really see Tallon wanting to use a first to take a goalie, but there will be a lot of value to that pick if those guys are available when the Panthers go on the clock.

A goalie being ranked in the 20's and a Goalie being drafted in the 20's are different things. Current draft philosophy seems to suggest Goalies are not highly desirable in the 1st round. Not a suprise given recent history.

All goalies selected in 1st round since 2004 :

Montoya - NHL backup. Bust in relation to his selection number
Dubnyk - He's in the NHL by virtue of his low end team. Poor pick
Schwarz - Bust
Schneider - Very good Goalie, but still isn't a #1 (And this highlights the issue of drafting a Goalie so high.
Price - Good pick. Did go #5 though
Rask - Good pick. High calibre #1 but still waiting for the main job
Bernier - Talented, but he is still an NHK backup like Schneider
Helenius - Bust
Varlamov - Talented, but is still trying to establish himself as average calibre NHL starter
Irving - Still waiting for serious NHL chance.
-------------- (Since 2006, Goalies have been less popular in 1st)
Pickard (Basic bust already)
McCollum (Long long way to go. Likely bust)
Campbell (Most hyped Goalie since Price, but has struggled in the OHL)
Visentin (Hasn't exactly blossomed so far)

Out of this group, only 1 can claim to be a seasoned NHL starter ; Price. Varlamov can claim to be an NHL starter (As he is the clear Avs main goalie this year). Rask and Schneider are excellent Goalies, but still wait. This somewhat highlights the problem of drafting Goalies, even if their development goes well, you're looking at a time span of 7-8 years and they still may not be your #1. The rest of the group is littered with busts, marginal NHL Goalies and some still difficult to call.

Considering how hard they are to project, how available they are later in the draft and the time span it can take before they have actual value (Goalie prospect also don't have much trade value), taking a Goalie in the 1st seems insane to me, unless he is clearly special. Why wait 6+ years when you could draft a player who can have somewhat of impact in 3-4 and is easier to project?

Secondly, Andrei Vasilevksi is not a Goaltender risk. If Russian skaters fall in the draft (Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, both unquestionably Top 10 talents in their year) fall, a Goalie is going to fall also. Unless you have insurances they you can get him over to NA straight away (The danger of bring European Goalies over at 18 is probably much less than doing so with European skaters).

Subban hasn't exactly had a tremendous second half either.

Brian Fogarty 03-28-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation (Post 46857593)
A goalie being ranked in the 20's and a Goalie being drafted in the 20's are different things...

Absolutely true, and the variability in both performance and development--combined with decreasing value on the free agent market--makes drafting goaltenders high in the draft (and definitely in the first round) a less-than-desirable option for most teams.

However, there has been a lot of hype around Subban and Vasilevski, and there will be teams willing to pull the trigger on one of those netminders there. Remember that last year's goaltender draft pool was thin, yet John Gibson was selected at 39 (he was originally slotted at 38 in a pre-draft meta-ranking).

J17 Vs Proclamation 03-28-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fogarty (Post 46863925)
Absolutely true, and the variability in both performance and development--combined with decreasing value on the free agent market--makes drafting goaltenders high in the draft (and definitely in the first round) a less-than-desirable option for most teams.

However, there has been a lot of hype around Subban and Vasilevski, and there will be teams willing to pull the trigger on one of those netminders there. Remember that last year's goaltender draft pool was thin, yet John Gibson was selected at 39 (he was originally slotted at 38 in a pre-draft meta-ranking).

Hellberg, The Gibson's and Perhonen made for an interesting crop last year. This year definitely looks stronger (Im not that aware of the CHL crop) but i think like last year, we shall see a good number of Goalies going in the 2nd as oppossed to the 1st.

Vasilevski as an entity is perhaps the most dangerous 1st round pick you could possibly create through the eyes of General managers. His position has a relationship with the 1st round that is difficult at best, and at worst, insanity. More importantly, he's Russian. I don't particularly believe in the Russian factor (I think the flight is a bigger threat than the catch) but it must be a concern to GM's. The combination of the two hasn't been drafted in the 1st round since Varlamov. Seems a big 1st round risk.

nhlfan9191 03-28-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation (Post 46857593)
A goalie being ranked in the 20's and a Goalie being drafted in the 20's are different things. Current draft philosophy seems to suggest Goalies are not highly desirable in the 1st round. Not a suprise given recent history.

All goalies selected in 1st round since 2004 :

Montoya - NHL backup. Bust in relation to his selection number
Dubnyk - He's in the NHL by virtue of his low end team. Poor pick
Schwarz - Bust
Schneider - Very good Goalie, but still isn't a #1 (And this highlights the issue of drafting a Goalie so high.
Price - Good pick. Did go #5 though
Rask - Good pick. High calibre #1 but still waiting for the main job
Bernier - Talented, but he is still an NHK backup like Schneider
Helenius - Bust
Varlamov - Talented, but is still trying to establish himself as average calibre NHL starter
Irving - Still waiting for serious NHL chance.
-------------- (Since 2006, Goalies have been less popular in 1st)
Pickard (Basic bust already)
McCollum (Long long way to go. Likely bust)
Campbell (Most hyped Goalie since Price, but has struggled in the OHL)
Visentin (Hasn't exactly blossomed so far)

Out of this group, only 1 can claim to be a seasoned NHL starter ; Price. Varlamov can claim to be an NHL starter (As he is the clear Avs main goalie this year). Rask and Schneider are excellent Goalies, but still wait. This somewhat highlights the problem of drafting Goalies, even if their development goes well, you're looking at a time span of 7-8 years and they still may not be your #1. The rest of the group is littered with busts, marginal NHL Goalies and some still difficult to call.

Considering how hard they are to project, how available they are later in the draft and the time span it can take before they have actual value (Goalie prospect also don't have much trade value), taking a Goalie in the 1st seems insane to me, unless he is clearly special. Why wait 6+ years when you could draft a player who can have somewhat of impact in 3-4 and is easier to project?

Secondly, Andrei Vasilevksi is not a Goaltender risk. If Russian skaters fall in the draft (Tarasenko and Kuznetsov, both unquestionably Top 10 talents in their year) fall, a Goalie is going to fall also. Unless you have insurances they you can get him over to NA straight away (The danger of bring European Goalies over at 18 is probably much less than doing so with European skaters).

Subban hasn't exactly had a tremendous second half either.

You are being WAY WAY to hard on Varlamov, Rask, and Schneider. Varlamov is an excellent goalie. And Rask and Schneider aren't number 1's because Loungo is on a ten year contract and Thomas was winning cups, vezina's, and a conn smyth. Either way, I don't want a Subban on this team if he's anything as toxic as his brother.

SoupyFIN 03-28-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 (Post 46870867)
Either way, I don't want a Subban on this team if he's anything as toxic as his brother.

Same here. And if he indeed is alike his brother, there's no way in hell that DT would pick him.


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