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-   -   ottawa & chicago proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=114604)

andora 11-20-2004 08:20 PM

ottawa & chicago proposal
 
to chicago - martin havlat & todd white
to ottawa - kyle calder & tyler arnason

thoughts ?

Rowley Birkin 11-20-2004 08:32 PM

Chicago wins, big time.

If they were to swap Calder for Ruutu, then it could work for both IMO

V for Voodoo 11-20-2004 08:40 PM

At least sub Calder, maybe Arnason, for Bell, then it's worth considering.

andora 11-20-2004 08:42 PM

i like your avatar :) *saves*

Tap on the Ankle 11-20-2004 08:42 PM

I agree, Chicago wins that trade big time. But if Calder were swapped for Ruutu, Ottawa would win big time. I like Calder a lot, but I don't think he and/or Arnason could help bring Ottawa over the top... the Sens would be better off keeping Havlat and White. Swap Calder for Bell, on the other hand, and you'd have me thinking.

Sting 11-20-2004 11:05 PM

Bell & Arnason seem somewhat fair...but I probably wouldn't give up Havlat for them. If Havlat goes to the Hawks...the deal better include Daze or Ruutu.

salty justice 11-20-2004 11:35 PM

I have mixed feelings on this one. Havlat is a great first liner and finisher that this team needs, but Calder and Arny combined could possibly have more value. White isnt much more than a throw in. I think Arnason will be a ~65 point/year guy for us over the next 5 and Calder could put up 50. Im not sure if its worth giving them up for a guy who probably wont score more than 20 points more than Arnason. Not to mention, Calder is a likely Captain for us within a couple years. Putting Ruutu into this deal makes it a joke.

I really like the offer, but I dont think the Hawks will be tinkering with their core players for another couple years. Id rather deal a 2nd and Arnason, or possibly a first & Arny for Havlat.

Bileur 11-20-2004 11:44 PM

IMO the original offer is horrible for the sens.
I like the one with Bell much more Bell would fills some needs in the organization.

Lobstertainment 11-21-2004 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting004
Bell & Arnason seem somewhat fair...but I probably wouldn't give up Havlat for them. If Havlat goes to the Hawks...the deal better include Daze or Ruutu.

Huh?

Daze is a great player and all but I wouldn't give up anything for him, his Back and the Surgeries are some very big question marks.

the last thing a team wants is to get a player like Daze then have him fall to injury down the stretch.

Ruutu yes, Daze? He has skill when healthy but he's had what now 3 back surgeries?

Lobstertainment 11-21-2004 01:36 AM

oh and just for fun

CHI- Spezza

Ott- Ruutu

thoughts? I guess this is more of a VS thing then a proposal.

andora 11-21-2004 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bileur
IMO the original offer is horrible for the sens.
I like the one with Bell much more Bell would fills some needs in the organization.

define horrible ...

Reilly311 11-21-2004 03:51 AM

Why would chicago start trading it's prospects?

Epsilon 11-21-2004 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reilly311
Why would chicago start trading it's prospects?

1. None of the players mentioned in this thread are prospects.

2. Havlat is younger than any of the Chicago players named except for Ruutu.

Pepper 11-21-2004 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fisher
I agree, Chicago wins that trade big time. But if Calder were swapped for Ruutu, Ottawa would win big time. I like Calder a lot, but I don't think he and/or Arnason could help bring Ottawa over the top... the Sens would be better off keeping Havlat and White. Swap Calder for Bell, on the other hand, and you'd have me thinking.

Chicago wins big time?? Swap Calder for Ruutu?? Man, you're delusional.

DisgruntledHawkFan 11-21-2004 10:43 AM

Ruutu will not be traded. Not big on Spezza. Don't think he alone is worth Ruutu. Todd White's name comes up in Sens trades far to often. Oh and Daisy he's healthy now back is a 100%. No grit or toughness, so he'd fit right in at Ottawa.

Bileur 11-21-2004 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
define horrible ...


Calder and Arnason while being solid assets would not, IMO, help out the senators very much. They would produce on the sens dont get me wrong, but not as much as White and Havlat would IMO. Plus the sens need to get bigger at forward. These guys pretty much keep us th same size, if not slightly smaller.

People keep talking about White as a "throw in" but fact is, while he may have only gotten his points thanks to Alfredsson, not entirely true BTW, he could still be a threat for a 25-35 or a 20-40 season playing for the senators. He's got good chemistry with Alf, IMO when White is on he improves Alfredsson's game too. The guy's got good speed and plays on our PK, and IMO his grit/heart is underrated, see his face in the playoffs? He had an off-year but he's still had more goals and points than either Calder or Arnason have ever had (not that they might not get better). He's a definite asset for our team. Then you have Havlat, 30+ goals, PPG, an extremely talented player, the best player in the deal in fact, plus he's the youngest? Add to that the fact that all signs point to him only getting better with age. It just sounds to me that this deal is clearly favoring the Hawks.

salty justice 11-21-2004 12:41 PM

Did you guys forget that we had White and gave him away as a FAVOR? He had some kind of blood connection with management in Philly so Mike Smith flat out gave his rights to them. Even if he could score 40 points with the Sens, that means he'll likely score no more than 25 with the Hawks, he would probably play in Norfolk if we were to get him as it would be better for a prospect to get time over this guy. Its extremely possible that Arnason could put up numbers as good or close to Havlat's if he played with the Sens.

Obviously, Havlat is the best player in this trade (sans Ruutu), but I dont think he is that much better than Arnason to warrant taking apart our core of players to get him, especially when Calder has a huge role with this team.

The Mars Volchenkov 11-21-2004 12:44 PM

I would possibly do a Havlat for Bell and maybe a pick deal, but I'm not sure how Chicago fans feel about that.

aragorn 11-21-2004 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBob
Did you guys forget that we had White and gave him away as a FAVOR? He had some kind of blood connection with management in Philly so Mike Smith flat out gave his rights to them. Even if he could score 40 points with the Sens, that means he'll likely score no more than 25 with the Hawks, he would probably play in Norfolk if we were to get him as it would be better for a prospect to get time over this guy. Its extremely possible that Arnason could put up numbers as good or close to Havlat's if he played with the Sens.

Obviously, Havlat is the best player in this trade (sans Ruutu), but I dont think he is that much better than Arnason to warrant taking apart our core of players to get him, especially when Calder has a huge role with this team.

White would probably play in Norfolk?? Chicago was a terrible team last yr, they didn't even make the playoffs. With White's NHl experience he would probably play on your 1st line as he did here in Ottawa with Alfie and Smolinski. Ottawa has been the highest scoring team in the NHl the last few yrs and White was a big part of that with his 50 and 60 point seasons. Martin St Louis is a small guy too.

Why does everybody on these boards underestimate this guy's worth? There is such high praise for Spezza and yet Spezza got pulled in the playoffs for Vermette. There was no question that White wasn't going to get pulled, he played on our 1st line and he played injured most of last yr. White was one of Martin's favourite players and Alfie loved playing with White, he is a pretty good playmaker as well. Problem in Ottawa is we have too many good small players and too many are centres.

Rowley Birkin 11-21-2004 01:21 PM

Wow, looking at this thread, I really thought you guys would rate Havlat more than you do, especially Sens fans.

Is this a true indication of how Sens fans generally feel towards him?

It Kills Me 11-21-2004 01:58 PM

i wouldn't do this.

Bird Law 11-21-2004 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBob
Did you guys forget that we had White and gave him away as a FAVOR? He had some kind of blood connection with management in Philly so Mike Smith flat out gave his rights to them. Even if he could score 40 points with the Sens, that means he'll likely score no more than 25 with the Hawks, he would probably play in Norfolk if we were to get him as it would be better for a prospect to get time over this guy. Its extremely possible that Arnason could put up numbers as good or close to Havlat's if he played with the Sens.

Obviously, Havlat is the best player in this trade (sans Ruutu), but I dont think he is that much better than Arnason to warrant taking apart our core of players to get him, especially when Calder has a huge role with this team.

You guys must've forgotten which White you gave up because that was Peter White, not Todd White.

I guess every team is forgetful ;).

andora 11-21-2004 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bileur
Calder and Arnason while being solid assets would not, IMO, help out the senators very much. They would produce on the sens dont get me wrong, but not as much as White and Havlat would IMO. Plus the sens need to get bigger at forward. These guys pretty much keep us th same size, if not slightly smaller.

i think the way the chicago pair would change ottawa's style would be just as important as how much they would *produce*. of course, i don't think it would completely out there to suggest they could each score 50 points playing in the top six, i just thought that they could also bring a different style of play consistently than havlat and especially white. calder and arnason would bring more grit and tenacity to the senators

that's what i based it on

salty justice 11-21-2004 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
You guys must've forgotten which White you gave up because that was Peter White, not Todd White.

I guess every team is forgetful ;).

Look again http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_b...te&hubName=OTT

:dunce:

salty justice 11-21-2004 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
i think the way the chicago pair would change ottawa's style would be just as important as how much they would *produce*. of course, i don't think it would completely out there to suggest they could each score 50 points playing in the top six, i just thought that they could also bring a different style of play consistently than havlat and especially white. calder and arnason would bring more grit and tenacity to the senators

that's what i based it on

You are half correct, Calder is an extremely gritty player who fearlessly goes into corners and wins alot of battles. But Arnason is a fairly soft guy. He's good on face offs, but rarely gets rough. Brain Sputter got into a fist fight with him last year over his lack of tenacity.


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