HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Russia (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Top Russian goaltending prospects (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1146645)

OHLFan8771 03-27-2012 04:21 PM

Top Russian goaltending prospects
 
I have heard of a NHL draft legible goalie this year by the name of Andrei Vasilevski and a younger highly touted prospect in Sergei Serebryakov.

Does anyone know if they are willing to play in North America to improve their game for the NHL level? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

cska78 03-28-2012 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 46814283)
I have heard of a NHL draft legible goalie this year by the name of Andrei Vasilevski and a younger highly touted prospect in Sergei Serebryakov.

Does anyone know if they are willing to play in North America to improve their game for the NHL level? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

I know Serebryakov's father's friend, he says that Larionov is trying to get him to come to NA, but they are not decided at this point.

OHLFan8771 03-28-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cska78 (Post 46851375)
I know Serebryakov's father's friend, he says that Larionov is trying to get him to come to NA, but they are not decided at this point.

Thank you for the insight. I have seen some footage of him and he looks like a future star so I hope he would come over and play junior hockey for a year or two.

OHLFan8771 04-02-2012 05:38 PM

My mistake in the earlier posts it is Nikita not Sergei

Dares 04-04-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 46855269)
Thank you for the insight. I have seen some footage of him and he looks like a future star so I hope he would come over and play junior hockey for a year or two.

You know theres junior hockey in Russia as well....

ult 04-04-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 46855269)
Thank you for the insight. I have seen some footage of him and he looks like a future star so I hope he would come over and play junior hockey for a year or two.

To ruin his career? Nah, I think all juniors should stay in Russia.

cska78 04-04-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 47282681)
To ruin his career? Nah, I think all juniors should stay in Russia.

not again....

ult 04-04-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cska78 (Post 47284225)
not again....

Yeah, my point exactly. Stop stealing our talents. :laugh:

ozo 04-04-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 47287813)
Yeah, my point exactly. Stop stealing our talents. :laugh:

I see your point, but noone is kidnapping them and taking Russian juniors to NA in trunk of a car against their will. Certainly, our posts on this board won't change anything.

OHLFan8771 04-11-2012 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 47282681)
To ruin his career? Nah, I think all juniors should stay in Russia.

Look at Yakupov this year, I can name many others. Juniors in NA does not ruin careers.

Yakushev72 04-11-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 47718701)
Look at Yakupov this year, I can name many others. Juniors in NA does not ruin careers.

I am one of those who believes that all but the exceptions will be diminished by going to NA, but don't worry. The flow of Russian players to NA will continue unabated. There are plenty of agents like Larionov who can get rich off of their backs. Getting out of Russia by itself is a life goal for many!

OHLFan8771 04-12-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakushev72 (Post 47721841)
I am one of those who believes that all but the exceptions will be diminished by going to NA, but don't worry. The flow of Russian players to NA will continue unabated. There are plenty of agents like Larionov who can get rich off of their backs. Getting out of Russia by itself is a life goal for many!

I can certainly see our point but I think its hard to pick sides as there are players that support each argument. I am slightly biased living in NA but I just think if a young prospect wants to play in the NHL then moving to NA during a junior season or two is the way to go.

vorky 04-12-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

if a young prospect wants to play in the NHL then moving to NA during a junior season or two is the way to go.
No, No and No. I can name you many guys who play NHL and did not play CHL or NA juniors. Look at Nikitin, Bobrovsky, Dima Orlov to name Russians. Russians, Swedes and Finns go to to CHL or NA juniors because agents want to make money. Czechs, Slovaks, Suiss, Germans, Latvians etc plays CHL because have terrible/ not good enough conditions for developing at home.

OHLFan8771 04-12-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 47837363)
No, No and No. I can name you many guys who play NHL and did not play CHL or NA juniors. Look at Nikitin, Bobrovsky, Dima Orlov to name Russians. Russians, Swedes and Finns go to to CHL or NA juniors because agents want to make money. Czechs, Slovaks, Suiss, Germans, Latvians etc plays CHL because have terrible/ not good enough conditions for developing at home.

What about players such as Radulov, Khoklachev, Yakupov, Galiev, Bobkov, Tyutin. It may not work for everyone but there has been success with players moving to NA.

vorky 04-13-2012 02:58 AM

it is past, now MHL works. Radulov played CHL before 2006, MHL was created in march 2009. Tyutin is similar case. Khoklachev, Yakupov, Galiev, Bobkov did not achieve anything yet. They are playing juniors or minors.

OHLFan8771 04-13-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 47886941)
it is past, now MHL works. Radulov played CHL before 2006, MHL was created in march 2009. Tyutin is similar case. Khoklachev, Yakupov, Galiev, Bobkov did not achieve anything yet. They are playing juniors or minors.

That is true but it just seems that the past few years with some of the above mentioned players and there are more have come over and played as opposed to players from the 80's or even early 90's.

Yakushev72 04-13-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 47892841)
That is true but it just seems that the past few years with some of the above mentioned players and there are more have come over and played as opposed to players from the 80's or even early 90's.

Russian players from the 1980's were much more tightly controlled by laws limiting emigration, so they were not permitted to even play in the NHL, much less the CHL, until 1989. By the 1990's, the floodgates to the NHL were wide open for senior level players, but junior hockey, like hockey overall, was in a state of shambles during the 1990's because of a deep economic Depression. Exposure to U18 level players generated interest from CHL teams for young Russian prospects by the early 2000's, which is why the presence of Russians in the CHL is a recent phenomenon.

The reason why the vast majority of good Russian prospects that come to NA fail to develop and have good careers is that NA is hostile territory for Russians, and there are too many obstacles to overcome. Let's face it, Canadians and Americans don't like Russians very much. On an individual human level, there are no doubt many instances of friendship and kindness, but these are anecdotal instances below the level of cultural animosity. I would point out the recent U20 championships in Calgary as a representative case in point. I don't care what team the Russians were playing, it could have been the Satanic Forces of Hell, and you would have heard the droning Canadian chant, "Go Satan Go, Go Satan Go."

In practical terms, a 17-year old Russian player has fewer years of highly structured, competitive experience than Canadians who start playing for highly organized, structured teams with a long schedule by the time they are six years old, and the Russian kids need more developmental training to reach their full potential. For a Canadian, by the time he reaches the CHL, he is not expected to be in a "learning" stage of development. Look at how many junior age players go right from the CHL to the NHL. If Russians try to take the same route, the record shows that they miss important stops along the way. The agents don't care, because they get a piece of the action if a kid signs with the CHL.

vorky 04-13-2012 12:39 PM

Ottersfan
tell me a reason why should Finns, Swedes, Russians go to CHL or another North American jr leagues. And dont use argument to adapt/learn NA style of game. Did Dima Orlov, Bobrovsky, Nikitin have problem to adapt NHL game? They played a few AHL games and then NHL. No problem. Why should others have problem if these guy did not have? Russian leagues can prepare juniors for pro-hockey. If a kid is good, he will make NHL (if wants). I see no reason to make a pond at the age 16,17. The same Swedes, Finns. Examples? Viktor Hedman, Tuuka Rask. SM-liiga and Elitserien prepare you for pro-hockey. Another story are Slovaks, Czechs - they leave country to play CHL because domectic development system is not good enough. I wrote it earlier.

I dont mention cultural, psychological, social problems if a euro kid leaves country too early. It is not general, but mostly negative.

Young russians leaving country to join CHL since 2008 (hope I have correct inputs):

CHL draft 2009 -17 draftees
12 - from russian clubs
3 - foreign clubs (especially US, CAN leagues)
8 - are back in Russia this season
1 - did not join CHL (D Pivtsakin I hope)
I dont know Gladkov route...

MHL started in 09/10 season, maybe guys did not believe it and went over in midseason. 8 guys of 17 is back in Russia. Why? If CHL is the best way of developing, you will not leave it. Why they went to CHL when they left it after year or so? Only Burmistrov is regular NHLer. Great talents like Kabanov and Galiev still plays CHL.
Berdnikov play MHL/KHL for Omsk (majority MHL), Stepanov plays KHL for Avtomobilist, Pivtsakin plays KHL for Omsk, Knyazev is like Berdnikov is Sibir, Klemetiev played VHL for Lokomotiv (if not disaster he would play KHL)

CHL draft 2010 -17 draftees
14 - from russian clubs including Kitsyn who played CHL for half of season
2- from abroad (US),
6- are back in Russia
1 - did not play CHL (Nesterov)

Agents were afraid of KHL draft, so they advised kids not to sign KHL entry contract and left for CHL. Google Makarov and Yakupov statements a few minutes after draft.. "I am leaving for CHL" yes, it is not professional statement, you should show respect to club which is interesting in you. Why should not Grigorenko, Kamaev make the same statement a year later? but ok... Those who are still in Canada, US play CHL. Some of them are drafted to NHL last year and not play it. WOW
Swede D Adam Larsson was also drafted that year, prepared at home and this season is NHLer. Elitserien prepared him. Yaroslav Kosov was also drafted in 2011, plays KHL regularly (ok injury). I say it is better for him to play KHL than CHL. Right?
back to CHL draft, Nesterov plays MHL, few games in KHL, Kitsyn plays mostly KHL, Levitsky, Kazakov plays MHL and Tankeev VHL for Lokomotiv. Were these 3 such talents like Namestnikov or Khokhlachev? All plays juniors, some in CAN, other is Russia.

CHL draft 2011 -11 draftees
7 - from russian clubs
2- from abroad (US),
1- are back in Russia (Nikolaev)
2 - did not play CHL (Malenkih, V.Tkachyov)

Trend of agent´s advice continues.. but less guys was drated and only 7 from russian clubs. So six guys left russian clubs (one is back). It is a regress, seems MHL works. Only Grigorenko and Kamaev were lets stars in MHL last season, rest were depth players. As I know Grigorenko and Gogolev left due to conflict with coaches.

I am curious how next CHL draft will work for russians. Buchnevich, best player in MHLers born 95 acc.to stats, should stay at home. At least club said he will get chance. Problem is with Larionov´s kids :/

ozo 04-13-2012 12:59 PM

I know it's pointless to argue with Vorky, so I only say that players drafted in last aren't expected to make the NHL just yet (unless they were top firstrounders). And using Adam Larsson as an argument is ridiculous, last Russian D-men who was drafted remotely close to Larsson's position is Kulikov. Guess which development route did he take and where he is playing now?

Top Russians will succeed everywhere, but tweeners should develop at home.

vorky 04-13-2012 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozo (Post 47901889)
I know it's pointless to argue with Vorky, so I only say that players drafted in last aren't expected to make the NHL just yet (unless they were top firstrounders). And using Adam Larsson as an argument is ridiculous, last Russian D-men who was drafted remotely close to Larsson's position is Kulikov. Guess which development route did he take and where he is playing now?

Top Russians will succeed everywhere, but tweeners should develop at home.

I think you did not get my point about Larsson. I compared NHL draft 2011, best ranked Swede who developed at home and best ranked Russian (and the facto all russians). Namestnikov and Larson are 1st rounders. Larson plays NHL this season, Namestnikov CHL. Larson was developed all career at home, Namestnikov did not. You can be developed at home and have better NHL career than a guy developed in CHL. So, no need to come over if Russia, Sweden, Finland prepared you for NHL.


Quote:

Top Russians will succeed everywhere, but tweeners should develop at home.
be honest to yourself. Nobody from Russian who left for CHL since 2009 was so dominated in Russia to come over. All left due to agent´s advice...

ozo 04-13-2012 01:46 PM

I'm not denying that players can develop successfully in Europe, I saying CHL isn't automatically ruining every European like you are claiming.

vorky 04-13-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozo (Post 47904025)
I'm not denying that players can develop successfully in Europe, I saying CHL isn't automatically ruining every European like you are claiming.

I am not. I just say kids dont need to go over if its domestic league can develop them. Czechs, Slovak, Germans must leave, our junior league are not good enough. Swedes, Finns, Russians dont.

Yakushev72 04-13-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozo (Post 47904025)
I'm not denying that players can develop successfully in Europe, I saying CHL isn't automatically ruining every European like you are claiming.

I'm not speaking for Vorky, but I don't think that he meant to say that the CHL is ruining every European prospect. But I agree with him that there are only a small few who have the physical and psychological makeup to reach full fruition in NA, and that all but a select few would be better off staying home, particularly when the level of hockey at home is pretty close to what it is in the CHL.

Yakupov was mentioned earlier. He is a case in point of a kid who is likely to succeed both in the CHL and NHL (although he hasn't succeeded yet). In addition to his gifts and attributes as a player, Yakupov is strong-willed, outgoing and fun-loving, with a forceful personality. He was determined to make friends with his NA teammates and seize on living in NA with full force. Unfortunately, many other similarly gifted players lack those strong personality traits and thirst to become a North American as quickly as possible. Many Russians are much more shy and reticent, especially when there is a language gap. I see Yakupov as a prime case exception to the rule.

OHLFan8771 04-14-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 47900983)
Ottersfan
tell me a reason why should Finns, Swedes, Russians go to CHL or another North American jr leagues.:/

Because the CHL is the best hockey in the world for kids of that age. Im just guessing so dont quote my numbers by why do you think 60-70% (maybe more) of the first round NHL picks come from these leagues. Do you honestly think Yakupov would still be the number one pick with the injuries this year had he not played in NA?

vorky 04-14-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottersfan (Post 47971545)
Because the CHL is the best hockey in the world for kids of that age. Im just guessing so dont quote my numbers by why do you think 60-70% (maybe more) of the first round NHL picks come from these leagues. Do you honestly think Yakupov would still be the number one pick with the injuries this year had he not played in NA?

dont agree. Elitserien, MHL/KHL, SM-liiga can prepare you to play pro hockey as well.

2006
Nicklas Bäckström from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL route
Semyon Varlamov from Russia to NHL, no CHL
Patrik Berglund from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL route
Ivan Vishnevsky from CHL to back home
Dennis Persson from Elitserien to AHL
Riku Helenius from CHL to ECHL and home

1st round 2006 Swedes, Finns, Russians. Guy from CHL was not succesfull, guys from Europe were. Dont mention Frolik, he did not have good league in Czech rep. And czechs still dont have

2007
Alexei Cherepanov - you know
Mikael Backlund from Elitserien to CHL and AHL/NHL
Nikita Filatov from Russia to AHL/NHL
Erik Karlsson from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Anton Gustafsson never come over
Mattias Tedenby Elitserien to AHL/NHL
Viktor Tikhonov from Russia to AHL/NHL and home

not so clear results. Only Karlsson is regular NHLer, did not play CHL.
Russia stil did not have appropriate junior league

2008
Victor Hedman from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Oliver Ekman-Larsson from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Magnus Pääjärvi from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Dmitry Kulikov from CHL to NHL
David Rundblad from Elitserien to NHL/AHL
Jacob Josefson from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Tim Erixon from Elitserien to NHL/AHL, no CHL
Marcus Johansson from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL

only one guy played CHL. Majority of Elitserien guys (no CHL) are succesfull in NHL. No need to play CHL, another proof from 1st round draft. Btw do you see it? Only one Swede, Finn, Russian was drafted as 1st rounder from CHL, rest from Europe. Why??

2011
Gabriel Landeskog from CHL to NHL
Adam Larsson from Elitserien to NHL, no CHL
Mika Zibanejad Elitserien-NHL-Elitserien
Jonas Brodin still Elitserien, no CHL
Joel Armia still SM-liiga, no CHL
Oscar Klefbom still Elitserien, no CHL
Vladislav Namestnikov from CHL to CHL :D
Rickard Rakell from CHL to CHL :D

to early to judge. Only 3 Swedes, Finns, Russians were drafted from CHL, 5 from Europe. It has to have a reason. Only one ex-CHLer plays NHL, two plays juniors. Euro guys play senior league - higher level than CHL. So, no need to play CHL if you want to be drafted as 1st rounder.

So, majority of guy who spend their development process at home are more succesfull. CHL is best development league for Canadians, Americans. Swedes, Finns, Russians dont need to play CHL to be great NHLers.

EDIT
Yakupov - no he would not be, because NHL GMs are anti-russian politics to guys who play MHL/KHL instead of CHL. It does not mean they are not good enough, it only mean they prefer another route. Do you think Tarasenko, Kuznetsov are not good enough to play NHL? If not, why the hell GMs travell to Europe to lure them? Did not Orlov, Bobrovsky, Nikitin be good enough to adapt NHL game? I dont think so.
Yakupov would be as good as he is now if he stayed at home. Maybe would be better, definitly not worse


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.