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-   -   Mtl-St.L. and Mtl.-Chicago proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=114866)

boomboom 11-22-2004 07:07 PM

Mtl-St.L. and Mtl.-Chicago proposal
 
To Mtl: J. Mayers
To St.Louis: N. Sundstrom

Mtl. gets tough right handed winger.
St.Louis gets a great 3rd liner with occasional off. and a great pk. player.

To Mtl: J. Vandermeer
To Chicago: F. Boullion and 2rd pick.

Chicago gets a great D. man that can hit.
Mtl gets same guy but that can fight.

Bileur 11-22-2004 07:24 PM

I'd love for Montreal to get J. Vandermeer

GaryU 11-22-2004 07:32 PM

Is that a 2nd rounder??? I'm in. By next season (when the NHL plays again), Babchuk should be good to go. Barinka, Barker, Seabrook, Kukonen (getting great amounts of ice-time back home) shouldn't be far behind. Haven't had much of a look at Boullion, but we'll take him.

salty justice 11-22-2004 08:03 PM

Wait this is ********! Boullion has absolutely no value and Vandermeer is more of a sure thing than a 2nd rounder. The Hawks have two 2nds already in 05 as it is.

Vandermeer might not have a spot in our awesome future D corps (I think he will), but a big mean defenseman who can clear the crease, drop the gloves, put up some points, and show some leadership at the age of 24 is something Id like on my team.

DisgruntledHawkFan 11-22-2004 08:41 PM

Vandermeer was one of the hawks only steady dmen last year. Big defensively sound guys that are willing to fight aren't easy to find. He has the ability and willingness to be a good #4 guy.

x-bob 11-22-2004 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomboom
To Mtl: J. Mayers
To St.Louis: N. Sundstrom

Mtl. gets tough right handed winger.
St.Louis gets a great 3rd liner with occasional off. and a great pk. player.

To Mtl: J. Vandermeer
To Chicago: F. Boullion and 2rd pick.

Chicago gets a great D. man that can hit.
Mtl gets same guy but that can fight.

Both those trades actually make sense. A 2nd pick in what is supposed to be a deep draft is really valuable.

andora 11-23-2004 02:28 AM

first one is pretty decent imo, however the 2nd one is horrendous for chicago. boullion is a decent little guy who i like, but he isn't fetching much in a trade. as well, vandermeer, while may not holding the same type of top upside as a couple of the blackhawks' prospects do, IS IN THE NHL, has played well, and plays the type of game all contenders look for in their depth.

to take a page out of trottier's book "i love how the customary 2nd round pick is thrown in to even it out"

boomboom 11-23-2004 12:14 PM

would u guys replace Boullion and the 2rd by Rivet then?

salty justice 11-23-2004 01:29 PM

Vandermeer is a younger version of Rivet only with more upside. The Hawks arent looking to trade for soon to be UFAs or depth defensemen.

Tallon is trying to build this team from the ground up as a young hard hitting team that can compete in a couple years. Boullion nor Rivet make sense for this club right now. Any guys Tallon trades would likely need to bring a physical 2nd line forward in return. We have plenty of young defensemen looking to tear it up soon, and signing a veteran UFA dman would be the likely move made if we are looking at D(see: Cullimore).

I dont think it would be too difficult to make a trade with the Hawks for Arnason, Vorobiev, Radulov, or Berard once play resumes.

C-Saku Koivu MTL 11-23-2004 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBob
Vandermeer is a younger version of Rivet only with more upside. The Hawks arent looking to trade for soon to be UFAs or depth defensemen.

Tallon is trying to build this team from the ground up as a young hard hitting team that can compete in a couple years. Boullion nor Rivet make sense for this club right now. Any guys Tallon trades would likely need to bring a physical 2nd line forward in return. We have plenty of young defensemen looking to tear it up soon, and signing a veteran UFA dman would be the likely move made if we are looking at D(see: Cullimore).

I dont think it would be too difficult to make a trade with the Hawks for Arnason, Vorobiev, Radulov, or Berard once play resumes.

I respect your opinion and you might be right about it. But to built a team you need veteran. Babchuk,McCarthy,Barker,Barinka,Seabrook and Kukkonen are the future with Vandermeer being there also. So who should help these guys getting better?Robidas?Berard?? Cullimore is nice to have but you need more. Rivet would bring this leadership but the big question is do they want to pay him? Not so sure and are they ready to deal Vandermeer because at leats he prove to be good enough and like you said still have potential to devellope more to a certain degree.

andora 11-23-2004 02:10 PM

give it up, you just listed their three veterans, add poapst if he's brought back.

fullmetalninja 11-23-2004 02:34 PM

Tallons says Captain and Vandermeer in the same sentence quite a bit... Vandermeer is also the pulford return for Zhamnov.

I wouldn't expect him being dealt.

And Vandermeer surprised everyone in chicago (even the coaches and staff) with his offensive output. Right now, he is better offensively than he is positionally on D (where he still has a ways to go).

Don't believe me? Vandermeer last year with the hawks put up more points than Steve McCarthy has in his entire career, thus far. [we were shocked in chicago by that as well, both by how poorly Stevie Mac has done offensively, and at how Vandy2 played really well in the offensive end].

Anyway, With the type of Blueliners we have coming up- Vandermeer will have a spot for a long time on either the 2nd or 3rd pairing.

-fullmetalninja

Bileur 11-24-2004 12:01 AM

Vandermeer is tougher and more physical than Rivet.

Senor Rational 11-24-2004 12:20 AM

As a blues fan personally I think Mayers will recover. He has great speed is a great defensive player and has the ocasional goal (man i cant spell). His knees are getting better and last year we saw flashes of what he could do while Sillinger centered him. Plus he is a great banger

Frenzy1 11-24-2004 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomboom
To Mtl: J. Mayers
To St.Louis: N. Sundstrom

Mtl. gets tough right handed winger.
St.Louis gets a great 3rd liner with occasional off. and a great pk. player.

I don't think St. louis would make the trade as it is a lateral move, where we may pick up a limited amount of offense but lose grit - necessary for the playoffs.

At this point, St. Louis has way way way too many 3rd and 4th line players and not enough top 6 forwards. Now I am not saying Mayers would bring in a top 6 forward, but I am saying that we don't need another 3rd liner.

Edit:

Counter Offer:

Mike Ribeiro

for

J. Mayers and a 2nd in 05

C-Saku Koivu MTL 11-24-2004 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I don't think St. louis would make the trade as it is a lateral move, where we may pick up a limited amount of offense but lose grit - necessary for the playoffs.

At this point, St. Louis has way way way too many 3rd and 4th line players and not enough top 6 forwards. Now I am not saying Mayers would bring in a top 6 forward, but I am saying that we don't need another 3rd liner.

Edit:

Counter Offer:

Mike Ribeiro

for

J. Mayers and a 2nd in 05

OK, a 15 point injury prone(recently) 4th liner and a pick in a year that there might not have a draft for a 65 points centerman, 24 years old in a break out year. I think it's fair, yeah it's fair.
Alot of poeple don't like Ribeiro because he is not that good defensivly, well unless you look at his +/- stats, and because he is not hitting. They don't care that he can make unreal plays or that he can deak 3 players on his own and then make a awsome pass for a goal. And poeple are wondering why hockey have change and is not has good has before :shakehead .

Bileur 11-24-2004 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Saku Koivu MTL
OK, a 15 point injury prone(recently) 4th liner and a pick in a year that there might not have a draft for a 65 points centerman, 24 years old in a break out year. I think it's fair, yeah it's fair.
Alot of poeple don't like Ribeiro because he is not that good defensivly, well unless you look at his +/- stats, and because he is not hitting. They don't care that he can make unreal plays or that he can deak 3 players on his own and then make a awsome pass for a goal. And poeple are wondering why hockey have change and is not has good has before :shakehead .


In short: Crappy offer, no thanks. ;) I agree.

AG9NK35DT8* 11-24-2004 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomboom
Chicago gets a great D. man that can hit.

Once again I must emphasize that the word "GREAT" is misused AGAIN.

Do people even know what the word means, Vandermeer will be a GOOD solid d-man, but far from great.

So can people on these boards please use proper words for proper players,I mean its quit annoying.

andora 11-24-2004 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG9NK35DT8
Once again I must emphasize that the word "GREAT" is misused AGAIN.

Do people even know what the word means, Vandermeer will be a GOOD solid d-man, but far from great.

So can people on these boards please use proper words for proper players,I mean its quit annoying.

so is misinterpreting other peoples' posts. boomboom was referring to boullion with that statement, which of course further emphasizes your point ;)

hockeyfan125 11-24-2004 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I don't think St. louis would make the trade as it is a lateral move, where we may pick up a limited amount of offense but lose grit - necessary for the playoffs.

At this point, St. Louis has way way way too many 3rd and 4th line players and not enough top 6 forwards. Now I am not saying Mayers would bring in a top 6 forward, but I am saying that we don't need another 3rd liner.

Edit:

Counter Offer:

Mike Ribeiro

for

J. Mayers and a 2nd in 05


:eek: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

wedge 11-24-2004 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Saku Koivu MTL
OK, a 15 point injury prone(recently) 4th liner and a pick in a year that there might not have a draft for a 65 points centerman, 24 years old in a break out year. I think it's fair, yeah it's fair.
Alot of poeple don't like Ribeiro because he is not that good defensivly, well unless you look at his +/- stats, and because he is not hitting. They don't care that he can make unreal plays or that he can deak 3 players on his own and then make a awsome pass for a goal. And poeple are wondering why hockey have change and is not has good has before :shakehead .


so true...

wedge 11-24-2004 11:11 PM

thanks everyone.. I didn't know a lot about Vandermeer, but the way you describe him, he looks to be pretty good...

Lobstertainment 11-25-2004 05:54 PM

yeah the "Great" is overused.

Pronger is great.

Chara is great.

Blake is great.

Boullion isn't great.

but it is a fair looking deal on both the original deals.

and Mayers + 2nd for Ribeiro?

I'm a Leaf fan and I was disgusted with Ribs actions in the playoffs but you are out of your mind if you think that's fair, 65 point 2nd line centermen are worth just a tad more then a 4th line player and the token 2nd round pick.

and Ribeiro is still pretty young too what incentive does Montreal have to trade him away? you might get him if Weight or Tkchuck was coming the other way and even then I doubt it.

Irish Blues 12-02-2004 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomboom
To Mtl: J. Mayers
To St.Louis: N. Sundstrom

Where do I sign for this?

BTW....let's take a moment and define "injury-prone". Mayers blew out a knee in November 2002 at Edmonton and missed the rest of the season. Last season he was largely ineffective b/c (pick any of the following):
1. He was still recovering from the injury and didn't have his speed back,
2. He fell out of favor with Quenneville and was rarely used,
3. He has pretty much been ineffective throughout his career, last year was no exception.

In the 5 full seasons he's been with the Blues, he's played 79, 77, 77, 15 (due to injury) and 80 games. He's missed 67 games due to injury, all in one season. *That's it.* The other 15 games missed were largely due to the coach's decision (save 2 games in 2001-02 due to food poisoning and the flu). Compare against Kyle McLaren, who has played 71, 58, 38, 33 (due to holdout) and 64 games...the vast majority of games not played due to injury.

McLaren is an injury-prone player. His history has shown that he *will* get hurt at least once in a season, probably more than once. Mayers is *NOT* an injury-prone player, unless we're defining "injury-prone" as "a player who is injured at least once during his career".

Now back to the discussion of the greatness of Mike Ribiero, already in progress...

regdunlap7 12-02-2004 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I
Counter Offer:

Mike Ribeiro

for

J. Mayers and a 2nd in 05

No thanks. I can understand you not wanting Sundstrom, but MTL isn't going to give up a playmaking #2 C for a 3rd liner.


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