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-   -   Nino Niederreiter (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1149317)

nikyc 03-30-2012 12:48 PM

Nino Niederreiter
 
The way he has been used in long island does anybody believe the he may still become a top line forward? One goal in the whole season is terrible. Has anyone seen him play and do you think that his mojo may be completely done and he fades away or is there still high hopes on this kid? I think they ruined him by keeping him up this season.

R S 03-30-2012 01:52 PM

He still has top 6 potential IMO. But yes, his development has definitely been hurt playing 10 minutes a night, if that, on the 4th line.

Should have been back in junior. Imagine him with Rattie and Bartschi? Plus Morrow, Pouliot etc. That's a Mem Cup team without a doubt.

wej20 03-30-2012 02:41 PM

He looked solid against the Pens last night but I still think this has been a wasted year for him and he should spend next year in the AHL playing big minutes.

Sartorial 03-30-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings (Post 46989197)
He still has top 6 potential IMO. But yes, his development has definitely been hurt playing 10 minutes a night, if that, on the 4th line.

Should have been back in junior. Imagine him with Rattie and Bartschi? Plus Morrow, Pouliot etc. That's a Mem Cup team without a doubt.

Agree 100%

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikyc (Post 46986529)
The way he has been used in long island does anybody believe the he may still become a top line forward? One goal in the whole season is terrible. Has anyone seen him play and do you think that his mojo may be completely done and he fades away or is there still high hopes on this kid? I think they ruined him by keeping him up this season.

Yes,at 19 he's ruined :sarcasm:

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 46991431)
He looked solid against the Pens last night but I still think this has been a wasted year for him and he should spend next year in the AHL playing big minutes.

Moving up off the 4th line and playing with better players has helped.

Still, I agree it has been a wasted yr for him and imo,the biggest reason Cappy needs to go.I expect him to spend most of next season in Bridgeport.

LuckyLuke87 03-30-2012 02:58 PM

Ruined? Not. Hurt a lot? Yes. Doubt he'll ever become top line player, might be solid second liner though. Honestly, I would be shocked if he became that 80 point powerforward star some thought he will be. Probably 20-30 points next year, 35-45 year after and 50-55 in 2014/15...60 point potential max.

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke87 (Post 46992211)
Ruined? Not. Hurt a lot? Yes. Doubt he'll ever become top line player, might be solid second liner though. Honestly, I would be shocked if he became that 80 point powerforward star some thought he will be. Probably 20-30 points next year, 35-45 year after and 50-55 in 2014/15...60 point potential max.

Quick,share with us tonight's mega million numbers.

Kershaw 03-30-2012 03:24 PM

Borderline bust. He does nothing exceptional. He's a bad hockey player and doesn't belong on a NHL team.

rt 03-30-2012 03:26 PM

He was rushed. Wayne Gretzky era Phoenix Coyotes style.

Pierre Dagenais 03-30-2012 03:26 PM

Nothing against Niderreiter but: Are there any NHLers who had terrible stats as 19 year olds and went on to become first line players?

ponder 03-30-2012 03:26 PM

I'm not sure I so much believe in "ruining" players. Nobody really knows how guys would turn out with more/less time in juniors, it's all speculation. Most of the guys who make the team really early but end up busting might have done the same thing if they'd stayed in juniors. I mean, Seguin only got 12 mpg as an 18 year old last season, and was healthy scratched at times, didn't stop him from blowing up this year. If you have the talent/ability, you'll probably succeed eventually.

With that being said, I could see it playing somewhat of a role in terms of career path. If you're borderline talent-wise in terms of top 6 vs. bottom 6, but spend a long time in juniors/the AHL where you really play in a star role, and develop both offensive ability and confidence on offense, I can see it leading to more of a top 6 role, while if you play in the NHL before you're ready to you could get "stuck" just working on your defensive game, and never truly gaining the necessary offensive skill and confidence to play on the 1st or 2nd line.

I think Nino should be back in juniors right now, but at the same time I think if you're a truly skilled player, you will rise to the top more or less no matter what. Nino will probably play in the AHL next year, Turris-style, where he should get a chance to play a more prominent offensive role, and concentrate primarily on improving his offensive rather than defensive game. I don't think he's "ruined," but I do think he may not have had the highest offensive upside to start with, and this year probably has not been the best in terms of developing his offensive abilities OR in terms of his confidence in his ability to be an offensive contributor at this level.

Can anyone think of another top 5 pick who played 50+ games in their first true rookie season, while recording just 0-1 points? I can't think of any, forwards only obviously. Joe Thornton springs to mind somewhat, with 7 points in 55 games in his rookie year, but that's still a lot more than 1 point.

Pierre Dagenais 03-30-2012 03:29 PM

Joe Thornton is the only one I can think of but he was 18 years old and recorded 7 points in 55 games.

FLYguy3911 03-30-2012 03:31 PM

Can he play for Bridgeport in the playoffs?

gramatanboy 03-30-2012 03:33 PM

Joe Thornton, as an 18 year older had 3 goals 4 assists in 55 games during the 97-98season and he turned out alright now didn't he??

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 46993311)
Borderline bust. He does nothing exceptional. He's a bad hockey player and doesn't belong on a NHL team.

How many times have you actually watched Nino play,know who his linemates are,which lines he plays on?

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 (Post 46993619)
Can he play for Bridgeport in the playoffs?

No.He won't be 20 until next Sept.

Grind 03-30-2012 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 (Post 46993619)
Can he play for Bridgeport in the playoffs?

not unless he was on their clearday roster. And if he's been up all season (which he has) I would assume not.

CREW99AW 03-30-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 46993405)
I'm not sure I so much believe in "ruining" players. Nobody really knows how guys would turn out with more/less time in juniors, it's all speculation. Most of the guys who make the team really early but end up busting might have done the same thing if they'd stayed in juniors. I mean, Seguin only got 12 mpg as an 18 year old last season, and was healthy scratched at times, didn't stop him from blowing up this year. If you have the talent/ability, you'll probably succeed eventually.

With that being said, I could see it playing somewhat of a role in terms of career path. If you're borderline talent-wise in terms of top 6 vs. bottom 6, but spend a long time in juniors/the AHL where you really play in a star role, and develop both offensive ability and confidence on offense, I can see it leading to more of a top 6 role, while if you play in the NHL before you're ready to you could get "stuck" just working on your defensive game, and never truly gaining the necessary offensive skill and confidence to play on the 1st or 2nd line.

I think Nino should be back in juniors right now, but at the same time I think if you're a truly skilled player, you will rise to the top more or less no matter what. Nino will probably play in the AHL next year, Turris-style, where he should get a chance to play a more prominent offensive role, and concentrate primarily on improving his offensive rather than defensive game. I don't think he's "ruined," but I do think he may not have had the highest offensive upside to start with, and this year probably has not been the best in terms of developing his offensive abilities OR in terms of his confidence in his ability to be an offensive contributor at this level.

Can anyone think of another top 5 pick who played 50+ games in their first true rookie season, while recording just 0-1 points? I can't think of any, forwards only obviously. Joe Thornton springs to mind somewhat, with 7 points in 55 games in his rookie year, but that's still a lot more than 1 point.

How many of those top 5 picks, played less then 10 minutes a game, with players like Reasoner and Pandolfo,aging vets with little left in the tank? How many were of those top 5 picks were healthy scratches for several games,even after the playoffs were no more then a miracle possibility?
2-3 games ago Nino was a healthy scratch :shakehead
He's playing with his confidence shredded and needs a full season in the AHL.

ponder 03-30-2012 03:47 PM

It is worth noting that, according to behindthenet, only 2 even strength points have been scored while Nino has been on the ice, and he was in on 1 of them. 2 ES goals for, 26 ES goals against over his time on the ice this season. Obviously he is not being used in particularly offensive situations. According to leftwinglock, he has played primarily with Pandolfo (3 points in 57 games this year), Tim Wallace (1 point in 31 games) and Reasoner (6 points in 56 games) this season, it's not that surprising that a raw rookie playing with some offensively useless 4th liners is equalling virtually no scoring.

ponder 03-30-2012 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 46994217)
How many of those top 5 picks, played less then 10 minutes a game, with players like Reasoner and Pandolfo,aging vets with little left in the tank? How many were of those top 5 picks were healthy scratches for several games,even after the playoffs were no more then a miracle possibility?
2-3 games ago Nino was a healthy scratch :shakehead
He's playing with his confidence shredded and needs a full season in the AHL.

I do think he could easily become a good 3rd or even good 2nd line winger. Who knows, maybe a decent 1st line winger. I was actually writing my above post at the same time that you were writing yours, with both posts containing some of the same points. I'm definitely not writing him off, and agree that he should play in the AHL next year to get some confidence back, I'm just wondering if this is something that has actually never happened before (top 5 pick, 50+ games in rookie year, 0-1 points).

StrongIslanders90 03-30-2012 05:10 PM

Hes on the 4th line with the Great Marty Reasoner(who scored his first goal of the year last nite) and the Amazing Jay Panolfo



IMO Nino we become a solid 2nd or 3rd line winger.....


Not the top power foward people thought....

Jack DiBiase 03-30-2012 05:14 PM

James Neal:

18-v 2005-06 OHL 66 21 37 58
19-v 2006-07 OHL 45 27 38 65
20-v 2007-08 AHL 62 18 19 37
21-v 2008-09 NHL 77 24 13 37
22-v 2009-10 NHL 78 27 28 55
23-v 2010-11 NHL 79 22 23 45
24-v 2011-12 NHL 76 37 41 78


Max Pacioretty:

18-v 2006-07 USHL 60 21 42 63
19-v 2007-08 CCHA 37 15 24 39
20-v 2008-09 AHL 37 6 23 29
20-v 2008-09 NHL 34 3 8 11
21-v 2009-10 NHL 52 3 11 14
21-v 2009-10 AHL 18 2 9 11
22-v 2010-11 AHL 27 17 15 32
22-v 2010-11 NHL 37 14 10 24
23-v 2011-12 NHL 74 30 29 59


Nino Niederreiter:

18-v 2010-11 WHL 55 41 29 70
18-v 2010-11 NHL 9 1 1 2
19-v 2011-12 AHL 6 3 1 4
19-v 2011-12 NHL 49 1 0 1


Compared to these guys, he a'ight.

TheNudge 03-30-2012 05:19 PM

I've been looking hard to found a nhler that a bad year in is first full season.
I found the following;

Jason Bonsignore- drafted 4th overall in 1994-

1st year he played- 1994-1995- 1gp- 1 G-0 A- 1 pt
2nd year- 1995-1996- 20gp- 0G-2A- 2 pts

Never played more then 35 games

Aaron Ward- drafted 5th overall in 1991
1993-1994- 5gp-1g-0A- 1 pt
1994-1995- 1gp-0G-1pt
1996-1997- 49 gp-2G-7A- 9pt

Played over 800 games with less then 155pts

Mike Gillis- drafted 5th overall in 1978

1978-1979- 30gp-1G-7A-8pts
1979-1980-40gp-4g-5A-9pts

Mike Crombeen- Drafted 5th overall-1977

1977-1978-48gp-3G-4A-7pts



Joe Murphy- 1st overall in 1986

1986-87-5gp-0G-1A- 1pt
1987-1988-50gp-10G-9A-19pts

Finish is career with 528 pts in 779gp


Cam Connor-5th overall in 1974th

1978-1979-23gp-1G-3A-4pts

he was a bust


So I think there's not one player that was drafted in the top prospect and finish with less then 5 pts and wasn't a bust. I just couldn't get one and hopefully someone can prove me wrong. Hopefully this was helpfull!!

Gustave 03-30-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack DiBiase (Post 46997653)
James Neal:

18-v 2005-06 OHL 66 21 37 58
19-v 2006-07 OHL 45 27 38 65
20-v 2007-08 AHL 62 18 19 37
21-v 2008-09 NHL 77 24 13 37
22-v 2009-10 NHL 78 27 28 55
23-v 2010-11 NHL 79 22 23 45
24-v 2011-12 NHL 76 37 41 78


Max Pacioretty:

18-v 2006-07 USHL 60 21 42 63
19-v 2007-08 CCHA 37 15 24 39
20-v 2008-09 AHL 37 6 23 29
20-v 2008-09 NHL 34 3 8 11
21-v 2009-10 NHL 52 3 11 14
21-v 2009-10 AHL 18 2 9 11
22-v 2010-11 AHL 27 17 15 32
22-v 2010-11 NHL 37 14 10 24
23-v 2011-12 NHL 74 30 29 59


Nino Niederreiter:

18-v 2010-11 WHL 55 41 29 70
18-v 2010-11 NHL 9 1 1 2
19-v 2011-12 AHL 6 3 1 4
19-v 2011-12 NHL 49 1 0 1


Compared to these guys, he a'ight.

Just curious, why comparing these three?


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